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RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/8/2013 5:40:42 PM

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From: The Old Pueblo
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FR

My brother used to work at a 7-11 which got robbed one night. The clerk cooperated, gave the armed robber all the money in the register, then the robber left the store. A minute later, the robber came back and shot the clerk, who then tried to escape out the back door, where the robber shot him dead.

So, just because an armed robber is exiting, it doesn't mean the danger is over.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/8/2013 6:07:01 PM

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From: Dirty Jersey
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FR:

Not everyone is willing to take responsibility when they carry a gun....as we`ve seen with Mr Zimmerman.

On another day,in another place,this same "good guy" shooter could/would be in the news, after getting arrested for shooting an innocent(by mistake,of George.....I mean of course) or for negligence, for killing a kid after dropping his weapon in a crowded place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OE78spknk&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://americablog.com/2013/02/wife-drops-gun-at-mcdonalds-accidentally-shoots-husband.html

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to muhly22222)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/8/2013 6:56:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

at Burger King

It was at the height of lunch time, about 1 p.m., when a would-be robber walked into a Burger King, flashed his gun at one of the family diners, and demanded the diner fork over money and valuables, police said in a CBS report. The robber was exiting when the father, who feared for his and his family’s life, CBS said, took out his own gun and shot the suspect in the leg.

Guess he wanted lead, to go He should feel lucky it wasn't supersized

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFaLokC9hqk

Best answer to the above (not asked) question :)

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 2:17:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MizzSpitfire

I realize that, hlen, but unless it can be proved the man did NOT fear for his life or his family's, I believe his reaction was justified.

so if I was there and find myself close to the shooting line I fear for my life as he could shot again and his aim is probably not perfect and the bullet may bounce back, I'm justified to kill the "family man" as I sincerely fear for my life?

(in reply to MizzSpitfire)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 4:41:08 AM

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Theoretically.

Vicious circle, huh?

(in reply to eulero83)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 5:17:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Hold the pickle, hold the lead... Special order? Now I'm sad, I just got shot, in the leg, at Burger King!

Article doesn't say if the entrance wound was on the front, or the rear of his leg, therefore we don't know if the robber was still facing the man or not. The robber could have been walking out backward to make sure they weren't being followed.

If he was facing the guy, distance doesn't matter, the family of the shooter was still under threat. If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified.

..

You also have no idea what was said during the robbery.
perhaps there were threats involved.
perhaps the robber said he was going to torch the place, or perhaps he was in the middle of considering choosing a victim to take with him.
we also do not know if the robber made statements about his plans to do something more harmful to any of the people in the building.
robbers are a stupid lot, they're funny that way.
just because the newspaper reported that the robber was leaving, does not necessarily mean that he was not continuing to pose a threat.

What has been proven is that he committed a robbery ( I did not read the article but some of the other posts it just says he already committed a robbery that day and that this was his second) , it is not a big leap believing that the person who shot the robber may have felt threatened ..... at one moment.... And didn't want him returning.

(in reply to subrob1967)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 7:54:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

at Burger King

It was at the height of lunch time, about 1 p.m., when a would-be robber walked into a Burger King, flashed his gun at one of the family diners, and demanded the diner fork over money and valuables, police said in a CBS report. The robber was exiting when the father, who feared for his and his family’s life, CBS said, took out his own gun and shot the suspect in the leg.

:) :) :)

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 9:22:46 PM

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FR

what if this isn't a case of self defense? Some states permit the use of force to prevent the commission of a crime....this could qualify. It prevented this guy from getting away with robbery. Since the shot was below the waste, it wasn't an attempt to use lethal force just force.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 9:31:43 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizzSpitfire

I realize that, hlen, but unless it can be proved the man did NOT fear for his life or his family's, I believe his reaction was justified.

so if I was there and find myself close to the shooting line I fear for my life as he could shot again and his aim is probably not perfect and the bullet may bounce back, I'm justified to kill the "family man" as I sincerely fear for my life?

He wasn't trying to shoot anyone but the robber so no.
By your logic I would be justified shooting severqal drivers a day.

(in reply to eulero83)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 10:19:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If he was facing the guy, distance doesn't matter, the family of the shooter was still under threat. If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified.

I think the shooter is more likely to end up being toasted than charged. We're talking about armed robbery here. That's a fucking death threat. This is a guy who points a gun at women and children. Even granting the absence of any immediate danger, to just let him walk away when you could have stopped him puts it on you if he kills someone the next time. That leg shot was a nicely measured response, but obviously the fucker still needed convincing. I'd have put a second one in him.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/9/2013 11:09:11 PM >

(in reply to subrob1967)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 10:48:37 PM

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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If he was facing the guy, distance doesn't matter, the family of the shooter was still under threat. If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified.

I don't know the law, but I think the shooter is more likely to end up being toasted than charged. We're talking about armed robbery here. That's a fucking death threat. This is a guy pointing a gun at women and children. Even granting the absence of any immediate danger, to just let him walk away when you could have stopped him puts it on you if he kills someone the next time. That leg shot was a nicely measured response, but obviously he still needed convincing. I'd have put a second one in him.

K.

Yes you don't know the law here are the definitions of robbery, armed robbery and death threat.
The illegal stealing or taking of anotherÂ’s property from that person or another by violence or by threat of violence; aggravated larceny. The personal threat of violence and implicit fear on the part of the victim are essential in order to distinguish robbery from burglary.
armed robbery
Robbery committed by a felon carrying a dangerous weapon, whether or not that weapon is actually used or even shown. The crime is tried as any robbery would be in most states, but the weapon serves to bump up the severity of the crime.

Under state criminal codes, which vary by state, it is an offense to knowingly utter or convey a threat to cause death or bodily harm to any person. It is also an offense to threaten to burn, destroy or damage property or threaten to kill, poison or injure an animal or bird that belongs to a person

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/9/2013 10:57:21 PM

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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If he was facing the guy, distance doesn't matter, the family of the shooter was still under threat. If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified.

You are right the first robbery that took place earlier has no baring on the second. The shot as the robber is in retreat would be unjustified. As I have pointed out in #2 Martinez shot at the car as it drove away. He was not justified and is currently in jail facing criminal charges for his actions.

(in reply to subrob1967)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/10/2013 4:44:49 AM

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No. No. No again. The US Supreme Court ruled decades ago that no one has the right to kill another person merely to keep some property from being stolen. And 9th grade civics should have made it clear that there are no states who have the power to overturn the USSC.

This ignorant and dangerous myth persists because cowardly politicians are afraid to vote take those old laws off the books.

And your below the waist comment is just as absurdly ignorant of the law. Please tell me you don't go around armed and actually believe that nonsense?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

FR

what if this isn't a case of self defense? Some states permit the use of force to prevent the commission of a crime....this could qualify. It prevented this guy from getting away with robbery. Since the shot was below the waste, it wasn't an attempt to use lethal force just force.

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 4/10/2013 4:46:59 AM >

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(in reply to FunCouple5280)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/10/2013 4:59:05 AM

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Oh really? Link

This guy was committing armed robbery, a felony. YOu are absolutely right when it comes to misdemeanors. But this was a forcible act and a felony, this changes things a bit. It isn't just taking property it is threatening ones life to steal property.....

(in reply to Powergamz1)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/10/2013 6:09:33 AM

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I'm still a bit puzzled by someone going into a Burger King at 1pm and robbing a single patron and his family. Wouldn't there be other people around? Did he try to rob them, or did he just single out this one guy? Did he try to rob the cash registers or anything from the restaurant employees?

I've given up wondering why people commit armed robberies to begin with. I guess they must have their reasons, but some cases are just too bizarre to fathom. A few years ago, there were some short-term loan companies being hit by robbers dressed up as clowns. I think they were eventually caught.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/10/2013 8:40:57 AM

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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

No. No. No again. The US Supreme Court ruled decades ago that no one has the right to kill another person merely to keep some property from being stolen. And 9th grade civics should have made it clear that there are no states who have the power to overturn the USSC.

This ignorant and dangerous myth persists because cowardly politicians are afraid to vote take those old laws off the books.

And your below the waist comment is just as absurdly ignorant of the law. Please tell me you don't go around armed and actually believe that nonsense?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

FR

what if this isn't a case of self defense? Some states permit the use of force to prevent the commission of a crime....this could qualify. It prevented this guy from getting away with robbery. Since the shot was below the waste, it wasn't an attempt to use lethal force just force.

I would like to know what court ruling you are talking about....

Legal Definition of Lethal force Deadly force is that force which could reasonably be expected to cause death or grave bodily harm.
In order for deadly force to be justified there must be an immediate, otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to yourself or other innocents.

No State has a law that permits a citizen to use force in prevention of the commission of a crime, that is the police job as Martinez is finding out in Florida.

The use of Force must be justified and as in this case as well as Martinez there was threat since the person was fleeing.

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 4/10/2013 8:49:27 AM >

(in reply to Powergamz1)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/10/2013 3:51:58 PM

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

No. No. No again. The US Supreme Court ruled decades ago that no one has the right to kill another person merely to keep some property from being stolen. And 9th grade civics should have made it clear that there are no states who have the power to overturn the USSC.

This ignorant and dangerous myth persists because cowardly politicians are afraid to vote take those old laws off the books.

And your below the waist comment is just as absurdly ignorant of the law. Please tell me you don't go around armed and actually believe that nonsense?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

FR

what if this isn't a case of self defense? Some states permit the use of force to prevent the commission of a crime....this could qualify. It prevented this guy from getting away with robbery. Since the shot was below the waste, it wasn't an attempt to use lethal force just force.

This court might look at overturning that one. They have others.

(in reply to Powergamz1)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/10/2013 3:57:53 PM

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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If he was facing the guy, distance doesn't matter, the family of the shooter was still under threat. If the robber was retreating, and had his back to the family, the shot was unjustified.

I think the shooter is more likely to end up being toasted than charged. We're talking about armed robbery here. That's a fucking death threat. This is a guy who points a gun at women and children. Even granting the absence of any immediate danger, to just let him walk away when you could have stopped him puts it on you if he kills someone the next time. That leg shot was a nicely measured response, but obviously the fucker still needed convincing. I'd have put a second one in him.

K.

Then how do you explain poor George.....who DID NOT kill an unarmed robber.....being "toasted".....?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/10/2013 4:11:27 PM

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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

FR

what if this isn't a case of self defense? Some states permit the use of force to prevent the commission of a crime....this could qualify. It prevented this guy from getting away with robbery. Since the shot was below the waste, it wasn't an attempt to use lethal force just force.

Any use of a gun is always considered lethal fore.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

RE: Have it Your Way.... - 4/10/2013 4:13:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FunCouple5280

Oh really? Link

This guy was committing armed robbery, a felony. YOu are absolutely right when it comes to misdemeanors. But this was a forcible act and a felony, this changes things a bit. It isn't just taking property it is threatening ones life to steal property.....

It was after the fact. It was not used to prevent anything.

(in reply to FunCouple5280)

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