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Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 10:50:58 AM

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In society male domination appears to be having more acceptance on broad basis not just on BDSM or Kink, History has proven that & also current events around world substantiates that when women are treated as second class citizens in some countries.

My Questions is not just restricted to BDSM world or Kink but on a broad basis

Why Male Domination appears to be having more of acceptance compared to Female Domination in society?,

Is it because The image of Male by nature is more Physically strong, who act like a guardian or protector of women, who are weak in terms of physical strength or is there any other valid reason or have i got it wrong?.

In simple terms, Female Submitting to a man may be viewed as a natural phenomena, while a Man submitting to a Women is viewed as taboo or contrary to nature. Unfortunately I think Religion has also played its part in this, What do you people think?

< Message edited by subbiedude -- 4/8/2013 10:59:44 AM >

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 11:00:56 AM

MistressDarkArt

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I think if you ask my boys, they will tell you my taking the lead is the most natural thing in the world to them. We just like each other as people and seeing me happy fulfills them. Societal norms...pffffft. Case closed.

(in reply to subbiedude)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 11:05:31 AM

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I don't think it has more acceptance at all. Whenever you see kink portrayed in pop-culture, on programs like CSI and so on, it's nearly always Fem Domme/male sub. Most always when you see male sadists portrayed in the media, they're a serial killer/serial rapists/kidnapper who takes young innocent girls to keep them captive in some secret underground dungeon and turn them into sex slaves.

Positive portrayals of Male Dom/fem sub is next to non-existening, while positive portrayals of Fem Domme/male sub isn't all the rare at all.

Cross posting isn't allowed on Collarchat, please pic a forum for your topic and stick with it.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 4/8/2013 11:13:36 AM >

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 11:14:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt

I think if you ask my boys, they will tell you my taking the lead is the most natural thing in the world to them. We just like each other as people and seeing me happy fulfills them. Societal norms...pffffft. Case closed.

I think statements such as "I don't care what society thinks, i live my life" is fine. But we humans are social species we don't live in isolation, Society is a reflection of us, So what i am asking is whether Male domination is more of a natural thing? Is it so why it is easily accepted in society compared to female domination?, Simple.

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 11:32:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Positive portrayals of Male Dom/fem sub is next to non-existening, while positive portrayals of Fem Domme/male sub isn't all the rare at all.

I don't know why you say positive portrayal of Male Dom/fem sub is next to non-existing,

What was Fifty shades of Grey all about? And why was it top selling book for many weeks, I've heard most of the avid readers of that book were woman and not men. Most of the times Fem Dom/Male Sub portrayed in mainstream media is a Joke or not serious portrayals.

I'm curious to know whether that book would have been successful in same manner if it had portrayed a Fem Dom/Male Sub instead of other way around.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 11:40:31 AM

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Since it is the duplicate over in Ask A Master that is the more likely to be pulled, I'll answer here.

The problem with the words that we use in the kink world is that they also have conventional meanings. We're also on a world wide board and what a person sees in their own country is going to be vastly different than what people might see in another country.

There have been what many people would refer to as traditional roles for a very long time. People took to each member of the couple assuming the duties that were required to sustain a household. A part of this is child rearing. Since males obviously can't nurse infants from the breast, that role went to women and the bread winning went to the male. That doesn't particularly make the leap to Domination as many on these boards would use it.

The other leap that you are making, OP, is in that word society. Except for the empathy that I might feel for the plight of another, the truth is that women being treated as second class citizens in some places around the world honestly doesn't have any effect on Me. It doesn't change how I live or what I do. There are people starving in Ethiopia, too. Does that change anything in your day to day existence?

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 12:00:37 PM

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1 book series, compared to decades of "male serial killer kidnapping little girls"... that would qualify as "next to non-existing". Before Fifty Shades, what was there? Even the Story of O portrays male Doms in a negative way. So what, 1 out of 100 media pieces at the most pieces at the most portray male sadists positively, but otherwise they're considered to be the most heinous, brutal and dangerous people on the planet, consistently vilified into extreme caricatures... even when not talking about pop-culture, but just common conversation, a man who beats a women -for whatever reason- is abusive, and amoral and should be locked up in jail... women on the other hand get away with physical violence against men with a grin and a judgement of how "he's a pussy" all the time.

Fem Dommes might not have their own kinky saga to be the next page turner, but females emasculating, demeaning and making fun of men, and anything to do with masculinity is all over the media, all the time. Turn on any random sitcom at any given time in the last 30 years, and you won't find a strong male role models in charge of the household. What you find is a woman either openly or secretly in charge, constantly demeaning her husband "pretending to let him make decision" while meanwhile emasculating him as a form of humor nearly non-stop.

Pussy whipped wimps are funny these days... and have been for a long time...

Name me one female character in the last 30 years who was treated and portrayed as Al Bundy from "Married with Children", Ray Barone, from "Everybody loves Raymond", Eddie Stark from " 'Till Death", Maxwell Sheffield from "The Nanny", Tim Taylor from "Home Improvement", Jim from "According to Jim", Doug Heffernan from "King of Queens Hal from "Malcolm in the Middle",... I could keep going here.

All these men are pussies, whipped, made fun of, demeaned, babied, emasculated, talked down to, toyed with, and humiliated by women, on a regular basis, as the premise of the intended humor on the show. Their emasculation and submission to women IS the show. The domineering, bossy, intrusive, humiliating attitude with which women in these shows approach the men IS the joke.

Name me a single show where the same thing happens with a gender role reversal.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to subbiedude)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 12:39:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

1 book series, compared to decades of "male serial killer kidnapping little girls"... that would qualify as "next to non-existing". Before Fifty Shades, what was there? Even the Story of O portrays male Doms in a negative way. So what, 1 out of 100 media pieces at the most pieces at the most portray male sadists positively, but otherwise they're considered to be the most heinous, brutal and dangerous people on the planet, consistently vilified into extreme caricatures... even when not talking about pop-culture, but just common conversation, a man who beats a women -for whatever reason- is abusive, and amoral and should be locked up in jail... women on the other hand get away with physical violence against men with a grin and a judgement of how "he's a pussy" all the time.

Fem Dommes might not have their own kinky saga to be the next page turner, but females emasculating, demeaning and making fun of men, and anything to do with masculinity is all over the media, all the time. Turn on any random sitcom at any given time in the last 30 years, and you won't find a strong male role models in charge of the household. What you find is a woman either openly or secretly in charge, constantly demeaning her husband "pretending to let him make decision" while meanwhile emasculating him as a form of humor nearly non-stop.

Pussy whipped wimps are funny these days... and have been for a long time...

Name me one female character in the last 30 years who was treated and portrayed as Al Bundy from "Married with Children", Ray Barone, from "Everybody loves Raymond", Eddie Stark from " 'Till Death", Maxwell Sheffield from "The Nanny", Tim Taylor from "Home Improvement", Jim from "According to Jim", Doug Heffernan from "King of Queens Hal from "Malcolm in the Middle",... I could keep going here.

All these men are pussies, whipped, made fun of, demeaned, babied, emasculated, talked down to, toyed with, and humiliated by women, on a regular basis, as the premise of the intended humor on the show. Their emasculation and submission to women IS the show. The domineering, bossy, intrusive, humiliating attitude with which women in these shows approach the men IS the joke.

Name me a single show where the same thing happens with a gender role reversal.

The Question is not about Male Domination or Female Domination portrayal in Literary world or Television shows, My Question was not restricted to BDSM or Kinky world, I said Overall in society Male Domination was witnessed more or accepted phenomena compared to Female Domination. Gender Discrimination against women around the world (Even in so called Developed World) has unequivocally proved that fact.

The Question is why there is a Gender Discrimination against women, is it because men are more dominant than women, or Is it because
society see it as a natural phenomena. Tell me why every messenger,prophet or messiah of religion turns out to be a Man not a women, Why cant there be a Women Pope, We cant shy away from these hard questions, Today Society may be transforming, but that will not take away the fact that a man submitting to a women is viewed as rare compared to other way around mostly outside the realm of BDSM or Kinky world

< Message edited by subbiedude -- 4/8/2013 12:47:48 PM >

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 1:05:18 PM

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quote:

Tell me why every messenger,prophet or messiah of religion turns out to be a Man not a women, Why cant there be a Women Pope, We cant shy away from these hard questions, Today Society may be transforming, but that will not take away the fact that a man submitting to a women is viewed as rare compared to other way around mostly outside the realm of BDSM or Kinky world

Simple answers here.

The prophets and messengers from God were men because they existed at a time and in societies when and where men did have power. When your religion tells you to "submit to your husband," you do it, especially when the alternative is excommunication from your family and community. Despite that, there were women who had leadership roles. Deborah, Ruth, and Mary are prime examples here; you need the right facts to make the argument you want to make.

Why can't there be a woman pope? Well, the pope essentially must come from the College of Cardinals; the Cardinals are all ordained members of the Catholic clergy; women cannot be ordained members of the Catholic clergy. You can debate the reasons for this (as a Catholic myself, I disagree with the rule), but at the very least, the answer is tradition.

Discussing examples of the kind of "dominance" you're talking about in TV shows, movies, and literature is a way of examining society's attitudes towards those issues.

Let's accept your premise that female subjugation is the norm around the world, and let's limit our area of discussion to the Middle East, for the sake of argument. Do you think that any of those shows mentioned by UllrsIshtar would have made a penny in the Middle East? Likely not, because they reflect an attitude of society that is anathema there, the woman browbeating her man. Americans, on the other hand, accept and even expect that in shows.

Yes, 50 Shades was a major bestseller. That's one instance of female subjugation being portrayed in a relatively positive light (although from what I've heard of it, I'd question whether it really was all that positive). Male subjugation happens all the time, in TV, in movies, and in all likelihood in literature, though I haven't read enough modern lit to be able to say for certain. So is it viewed as all that strange? Depending on where you live, I'd have to say no.

In my area (rural Ohio), though, it would be strange for a man to submit to a woman. It's a very "traditional" and conservative area (socially and politically). With that being said, even here it wouldn't be all that off...women here may be stay-at-home mothers, for instance, but they really run the house (not that there's anything wrong with or weak about being a stay-at-home mom).

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 1:23:32 PM

searching4mysir

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quote:

Why cant there be a Women Pope

Do you want an honest answer from the theological/philosophical perspective of Catholicism or are you just posturing?

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 1:28:15 PM

MistressDarkArt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222

Yes, 50 Shades was a major bestseller. That's one instance of female subjugation being portrayed in a relatively positive light (although from what I've heard of it, I'd question whether it really was all that positive).

What I took away from the series was the woman portrayed was never submissive, and stated so dozens of times between the 3 books. If anything, her 'dominant' partner bent over backwards to provide her with entertainment, health, comfort, security, and sex that most times was all about her enjoyment unless she chose to reciprocate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbiedude

The Question is why there is a Gender Discrimination against women, is it because men are more dominant than women, or Is it because
society see it as a natural phenomena.

I believe that's too broad a stroke to define with one brush. There are different societies/standards all over the world. Then there are specialized societies within societies, such as our world of M/s, D/s where what we find acceptable (even preferable) would not fly in vanilla-land.

OP, perhaps a more focused tack would be to apply this question to yourself and your own situation. If you had the answer, how would it affect YOU?

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 4/8/2013 1:32:50 PM >

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 1:29:43 PM

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quote:

Simple answers here.

The prophets and messengers from God were men because they existed at a time and in societies when and where men did have power.

Or there is the even simpler answer male prophets were chosen because that's how God wanted it.

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 1:56:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subbiedude
I don't know why you say positive portrayal of Male Dom/fem sub is next to non-existing,

What was Fifty shades of Grey all about?

Wasn't the guy in 50 Shades a submissive service top to a power bottom woman? I've read excerpts of the book, but it didn't seem like a maledom/femsub situation to me.

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(in reply to subbiedude)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/8/2013 3:00:32 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subbiedude
So what i am asking is whether Male domination is more of a natural thing? Is it so why it is easily accepted in society compared to female domination?, Simple.

It's not natural to me. I don't believe in the natural Dominance of the male. I think for quite some time it has been that way because men held the power in society for whatever reason but, way way way before modern times, humanity lived in a matriarchal society. I think it ebbs and flows. The men I choose to have relationships would not agree that male domination is more natural to them either.

NBMG

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/9/2013 6:31:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Fem Dommes might not have their own kinky saga to be the next page turner, but females emasculating, demeaning and making fun of men, and anything to do with masculinity is all over the media, all the time. Turn on any random sitcom at any given time in the last 30 years, and you won't find a strong male role models in charge of the household. What you find is a woman either openly or secretly in charge, constantly demeaning her husband "pretending to let him make decision" while meanwhile emasculating him as a form of humor nearly non-stop.

Pussy whipped wimps are funny these days... and have been for a long time...

Name me one female character in the last 30 years who was treated and portrayed as Al Bundy from "Married with Children", Ray Barone, from "Everybody loves Raymond", Eddie Stark from " 'Till Death", Maxwell Sheffield from "The Nanny", Tim Taylor from "Home Improvement", Jim from "According to Jim", Doug Heffernan from "King of Queens Hal from "Malcolm in the Middle",... I could keep going here.

All these men are pussies, whipped, made fun of, demeaned, babied, emasculated, talked down to, toyed with, and humiliated by women, on a regular basis, as the premise of the intended humor on the show. Their emasculation and submission to women IS the show. The domineering, bossy, intrusive, humiliating attitude with which women in these shows approach the men IS the joke.

Name me a single show where the same thing happens with a gender role reversal.

The standard image of the "henpecked male"/"nagging wife" has been a cornerstone of our culture for decades, if not centuries. Back in the old days, they were called "fishwives."

The only show you named above that I've actually seen was "Married With Children," but as I recall from that show, the husband was the bread winner while the wife just sat at home eating bon-bons and watching TV. Neither one of them would be a positive portrayal of anything, although they might be symbolic of the amoral cynicism of our age.

I'm not sure that these examples address the OP's question. They show the man who is still in the obligated role as being the dominant head of the household, but he's being demeaned and humiliated because he's seen as weak, not just by his wife but by society at large. He's just an average Joe, nobody rich, famous, strong, or powerful. George Jetson, Fred Flintstone, Ralph Kramden, Dagwood, etc. What we're seeing is a caricature, not real life. The role of the wives in these caricatures is to push their husbands to strive for better, as the old saying "Behind every great man is a woman to push him along" or something to that effect.

These examples still illustrate a male-dominated dynamic, even though the nominal "leader" is pretty much a pushover and a marshmallow. The women are not leading by design, but more by necessity. The underlying message is that they're trying to show American males how they should NOT act, as I wouldn't think of them as role models (although I could be wrong on that point). One of the old guard of sitcoms was "All in the Family," but in that show, the main character was shown as a bigoted jerk, and while most characters may not be as extreme as Archie Bunker, they're often portrayed negatively and pretty much jerks who deserve what they get.

Of course, one could draw upon other examples from pop culture (not just sitcoms). The typical action/adventure has the leading men in more dominant, heroic roles, while the women might either be tough fighters (but not quite so tough as the leading man) or often as damsels in distress, waiting to be rescued. That's pretty common, too, although there are some exceptions to the rule.

Then there's the world of sports, which is also where a lot of supposed "role models" come from. I don't think they're portrayed as wimps.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/9/2013 8:47:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subbiedude
In simple terms, Female Submitting to a man may be viewed as a natural phenomena, while a Man submitting to a Women is viewed as taboo or contrary to nature. Unfortunately I think Religion has also played its part in this, What do you people think?

Regarding this point: It's true that society, generally speaking, expects women to follow, or obey men, especially since they began writing fictional books to support that status. I agree that paternalism, and male supremacy is an underlying theme in most countries I've lived in, or visited thus far. One would have to admit, that there have always been women who took the reigns, lead their men/husbands/countries though.
Having said that, some of us women are self aware, respect those men who respect us as individuals, and the rest is fun to be had. I need a man who yields, and that is what I find. We both say phuck what society in relation to our private life.

Fortunately, the male reigning supreme is changing, and I hope it the wave of change doesn't swing too far the other way in the end, as y'all aren't the most versatile, most obedient creatures.

I may have more to say later, but need to go for now.

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/9/2013 12:43:47 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

I don't think it has more acceptance at all.

Coming from Norway, I absolutely agree with this.

By now, the pendulum has swung the other way here, to the point that we are slowly converging on declaring male sexuality inherently criminal, and female sexuality inherently non-criminal, regardless of consent, context and so forth. This both culturally and legally, though the law is fortunately progressing slower than the culture, and the courts slower than the law. I shouldn't write too much about it, or I'll just end up spending hours editing a very long rant.

quote:

Whenever you see kink portrayed in pop-culture, on programs like CSI and so on, it's nearly always Fem Domme/male sub.

Yup. Around these parts, the leading feminist organization even claimed lesbian BDSM never exists, except in the form of women conforming to a fantasy created by men (without realizing they're toys for men, of course). I would use the "other" term for them, but someone got the mods to accept that it's a magic word on par with the N-word, so I'm going to lump this under the term we're left with, i.e. feminism.

quote:

Most always when you see male sadists portrayed in the media, they're a serial killer/serial rapists/kidnapper who takes young innocent girls to keep them captive in some secret underground dungeon and turn them into sex slaves.

In all fairness, I seem to recall a female sexual predator having been played by the delectable Stacy Haidûk (eyes, people, eyes).

quote:

Positive portrayals of Male Dom/fem sub is next to non-existening, while positive portrayals of Fem Domme/male sub isn't all the rare at all.

1. Femdomme/malesub - safe and accepted, because it's not credible.
2. Femdomme/femsub - rejected, because it's only eyecandy for men.
3. Maledom/malesub - rejected, because it's homosexual.
4. Maledom/femsub - rejected, because it's abuse/rape.

Sad state of affairs, from any angle.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/9/2013 12:46:37 PM

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Yeah, thats why the best tv is what you make yourself.

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RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/9/2013 12:53:59 PM

Aswad

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But, then, where would I find the drama, Ron?

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: Female Domination v/s Male Domination - 4/9/2013 12:56:44 PM

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At playback the tape for her parents time, of course.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Aswad)

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