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RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/16/2013 5:05:51 PM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

"I will tell you, when a woman is set on a findomme relationship, the best thing for her to do is to request tribute before getting to know you. That is because she's only interested in men who WILL tribute, and she's getting 30 mails an hour when online, and there is no way for her to weed through and find which guys are actually interested in the same things she is, and which ones aren't. "

Umm- have you read the TOS of this site lately? How about the big red letters that say "Don't send money to anyone..""?

Having taken the time to get to know a few pro-dommes in my day- I suspect that fin-sub is largely urban myth. Oh, there may be a few of them out there, but I think the odds of hitting them may make playing the lottery seem like a good idea.

My hunch is that fin-dommes have sprung up-not from success, but just based on looking at others pictures and saying "gee- I can hit up guys for money- I look better than so and so." The few women that have reported being successful as a fin domme have commented that it is not an easy skill- most pro-dommes don't have it.

I would suggest that while findomme may be a legitimate kink- it is so rare that to try and cater to the people that wish to indulge in it has cost this website and many of us dearly. Scammers take our time, money and dignity and there is no sexual gratification there- just the same thrill as a common con man. Scammers outnumber the successful findommes by orders of magnitude on this site- its a sad fact of life.

I suspect that if references to findommes were banned simply because it is impossible to distinguish between findomme and scammer- people looking for that kink would still be successful- and the rest of us would have more people to interact with. And I suspect that rather than decrease the number of people on this site- the numbers would increase because many reasonable men are turned off by the barrage of requests for money. From the point of view of women- there might be more good guys hanging around then- creating a virtuous cycle- more quality people will attract more people to the site. Just a thought...

Sam

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 121

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/16/2013 5:43:30 PM

AliceMajesty

Posts: 26
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
I would suggest that while findomme may be a legitimate kink- it is so rare that to try and cater to the people that wish to indulge in it has cost this website and many of us dearly. Scammers take our time, money and dignity and there is no sexual gratification there- just the same thrill as a common con man. Scammers outnumber the successful findommes by orders of magnitude on this site- its a sad fact of life.

I don't really see where you get your expertise from, how do you know who is fake and who's "legitimate"? Define a "scammer FinDomme". Because doesn't scamming mean you fool someone out of their money with dishonesty? Well then findom is never a scam, since it's always open about being findom. Not everything involving money is financial domination. You might not enjoy findom, but then just don't participate, don't go around calling people scammers and advocate discrimination. Honestly, I'd think the BDSM community would be more accepting than that.

Scammers take your time, money and dignity? No. Why are you giving your time and money to FinDommes if you're not into findom? If you're doing that, and then coming here to complain about it, then you are giving up your own dignity - no one stole it from you.

And, for the record, I come across plenty of finsubs, it's not that uncommon.

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 122

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/16/2013 8:07:23 PM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Excuse me- but you misunderstood my words.
1) Scammer- pretending to be a findomme.
2) Findomme.

No such animal as a "scammer findomme". On this website- findomme is legitimate- scammer is not. However, if the actions of both are to request money prior to meeting- there is no practical way to distinguish between the two. My experience has been that scammers are common- findommes are common, successful findommes- far less so, since there are few finsubs. Having gone to munches and talked to folks- doesn't seem to be a common fetish-apparently you have the knack.

I'm not suggesting something that is philosophically correct- there is a discrimination in what I've proposed to findommes. However, in practice- since this is the kink which is most commonly exploited by scammers, why not suggest that findommes go elsewhere or follow the same rules as anyone else here- i.e. no money before meeting? Might make this a nicer place to hang out. In short- this is a pragmatic suggestion- nothing more. Also note- I do follow the sites guidelines and report profiles that request money prior to meeting.

Sam

< Message edited by samboct -- 5/16/2013 8:09:03 PM >

(in reply to AliceMajesty)

Post #: 123

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/16/2013 10:26:17 PM

AliceMajesty

Posts: 26
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Excuse me- but you misunderstood my words.
1) Scammer- pretending to be a findomme.
2) Findomme.

No such animal as a "scammer findomme". On this website- findomme is legitimate- scammer is not. However, if the actions of both are to request money prior to meeting- there is no practical way to distinguish between the two. My experience has been that scammers are common- findommes are common, successful findommes- far less so, since there are few finsubs. Having gone to munches and talked to folks- doesn't seem to be a common fetish-apparently you have the knack.

Well, yes, findom is a primarily online fetish - so you wouldn't meet finsubs at a munch. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

A good way to tell a genuine FinDomme from a "scammer" is that us genuine people are completely ok with proving that we're really the person in our pictures. Asking for a proof in return that the sub is serious, that's simply a good safety measure before traveling to see them. However, if you're not into findom, then you should never have come far enough in a conversation for the Domme to prove she's real or ask you for money, since you should not be talking to us! If you talk to us, then of course we'll assume you're into findom!

Is this really such a hard concept to understand?

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 124

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 4:16:05 AM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

I'm a fin domme and I go to munches. Just saying.

Dink- I see your ban was finally lifted.

There are those of us who do real time as well as online. Charles is right, there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to fin dommes.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to AliceMajesty)

Post #: 125

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 5:56:47 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Alice

Again- you have failed to understand my point. You seem to think that I have some philosophical bias against findommes- I don't. I am pointing out however, that there is a practical issue here. Furthermore you continue to want special rules for findommes- i.e. send money before an encounter- a clear violation of the TOS of this site.

My observation is that what's happened on this site is a "tragedy of the commons". Back in college, when I learned about the concept, the example used was grazing land. Assume that there is a parcel of land which is not owned by any individual, but collectively. When one farmer uses it to graze 10 sheep, they're all well fed. The next 10 farmers each with 10 sheep show up- and they're OK, but perhaps a bit leaner. But when a 1000 farmers show up with 10,000 sheep, the grass is gone and all the sheep starve. Who's in the wrong here? Is anyone? Or is this just the nature of shared facilities?

I think something similar has happened on this site. Finsub is an uncommon kink. 1 findomme looking for the finsub- not a problem. 10 findommes looking for the finsub- no big deal. 10,000 findommes looking for the finsub- problem! 10,000 findommes and the 100,000 scammers acting like Findommes- BIGGER PROBLEM! And this is what we've got now. Please note- I have no way of distinguishing between genuine findomme (someone who gets sexual satisfaction from getting money from men/women or TG) and scammer- someone who's happy getting money from anyone by deception. But as has been noted- you have to slog through a lot of profiles to find someone to connect with and it's not a fast or easy process. (Speaking as someone who has made non-virtual connections with people on this site.) Having to plow through more profiles of wannabe findommes and scammers makes the process even harder. Wanna help solve the problem? Report the profiles that violate the TOS-it's a few seconds of your time that might help this site a nicer place to hang out.

Sam

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Post #: 126

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 6:40:15 AM

DrkOne

Posts: 30
Joined: 4/21/2010
Status: offline

Nope. But then unlike you. I don't play well with others *chuckles

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 127

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 7:09:01 AM

Zonie63

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

I think something similar has happened on this site. Finsub is an uncommon kink. 1 findomme looking for the finsub- not a problem. 10 findommes looking for the finsub- no big deal. 10,000 findommes looking for the finsub- problem! 10,000 findommes and the 100,000 scammers acting like Findommes- BIGGER PROBLEM! And this is what we've got now. Please note- I have no way of distinguishing between genuine findomme (someone who gets sexual satisfaction from getting money from men/women or TG) and scammer- someone who's happy getting money from anyone by deception. But as has been noted- you have to slog through a lot of profiles to find someone to connect with and it's not a fast or easy process. (Speaking as someone who has made non-virtual connections with people on this site.) Having to plow through more profiles of wannabe findommes and scammers makes the process even harder. Wanna help solve the problem? Report the profiles that violate the TOS-it's a few seconds of your time that might help this site a nicer place to hang out.

Sam

Are finsubs really that rare a commodity? I have no idea what the stats are on this, but it seems plausible that there must be a certain supply of finsubs sending money - otherwise all the findommes would go away. Is that assessment incorrect?

From some of the profiles I've come across, I do get the feeling that pickings are rather slim, as numerous findomme profiles seem awfully bitter about "fakes." That tells me that it may not all be biscuits and gravy from the findomme side, as I'm sure they deal with a lot of pranksters wasting their time.

Some of these findommes seem even a bit naive and put themselves at risk, especially when they put their real name on their Amazon wish list.

There are some profiles I've suspected might be scammers or fakes, but without really knowing for certain, I would more likely refrain from reporting anyone. Also, the statement about not sending money to other users, I read that more as helpful advice, not a hard-and-fast rule of the site. There's no real mechanism for sending money through this site anyway, as it would be done through Pay Pal, Amazon, or some other third-party service like that.

It does say in the Terms of Service:

quote:

7.3.12. You will not use Your profile or any other portion of the Website or Our services to promote any other business enterprise, unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com, nor will you attempt to use any of Our services to promote an escort service, prostitution, web-cams, or any other form of related enterprise;

Of course, this includes the phrase "unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com," so it seems that financial domination may either be permitted or not considered a business enterprise. It's their site, their call, and their decision to enforce their own TOS as they see fit.

There are some profiles which seem to come across as parodies, as if they're making fun of the lifestyle. I don't think that their presence is quite so tragic, though. As others have mentioned, it's a free site, and there are some things that users have to put up with.

I don't even go to some news sites anymore, since the incessant advertising bogs down the site and makes every page take forever to load. That's the kind of stuff that ruins websites. At least this site is reasonably user-friendly. Sure there might be some improvements that could be made; I think any site is like that.

I don't know that findommes on this site make it all that hard for subs - or at least, not any harder than it is. There are some profiles which seem to go out of their way to insult male subs, but I figure that's just part of the shtick. But some seem so judgmental and filled with utter contempt. It's commonly said that people shouldn't criticize or insult other people's kinks, but a lot of the findomme profiles seem to do exactly that.

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 128

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 7:18:35 AM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

It seems to me that it's usually the men who say that finsubs are not common. I think perhaps it's because they have a chip on their shoulder about the whole thing, it pisses them off, and they refuse to believe that there are silly men out there who would actually search this out. They don't seem to think financial Domination has any value, so they refuse to think that it could exist.

It's the women that say it's common. Why? Because I'd say about every woman on this site, no matter what sexual orientation box they check off, has had out of the blue offers from men asking to send them money. I also think that the hordes of finDommes out there proves that there is a market supporting them.

People can draw their own conclusions of course.

(in reply to Zonie63)

Post #: 129

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 8:24:26 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Zonie, Lizi

Yes, I think male finsubs are rare- at least ones actually willing to part with their money! I'm basing this statement on conversations I've had with pro-dommes concerning wish lists. There are a number of men that will ask a pro-domme what they can buy her and for many of these men, there is a fetish aspect of what's on the wish list. But a lot of this activity such as going through the wish list and then contacting the pro-domme, IS the fantasy of these men. They don't really want to meet in person and they also don't intend to actually buy something for the woman. So pro-dommes put up these wish lists as a way of catering to these folks without going through too much aggravation. But having someone send something out of the blue based on a wish list? Apparently quite rare....And having talked with some sub guys- don't know anybody that admits to being into this.

My take on finsubs is that the odds are similar to playing the lottery. Yes, there are these men out there- but there aren't that many of them. Since it looks like an easy way to make money- there are lots of findommes (and scammers posing as findommes). But the likelihood of success is low. From a business perspective- low barrier to entry- potential high pay off. Gold rush is a similar mentality.

If we look at prostitution as another example- there are some women that desire to be kept mistresses. There are many more that are streetwalkers. The activity is essentially the same- but for one group, the payoff is much greater. I suspect that findomme is similar- there are a few that may be very successful- but most are not.

Sam

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 130

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 8:50:44 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
Yes, I think male finsubs are rare- at least ones actually willing to part with their money!

I just looked at the first few entries from a Twitter search for #findom, and the number of subs with Twitter presence appears to be in the thousands, at least. If just a few percent actually buy something off a wish list, that seems consistent with the more general ratio of only a few percent of male subs more interested in serving the needs of the mistress than in satisfying their own fetish fantasy. So I don't see, offhand, why the numbers would be any different for finsub than for any other kind of ___sub, if sub really means sub, instead of bottom or fetishist.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 131

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 10:13:34 AM

AllisonWilder

Posts: 296
Joined: 10/8/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Zonie, Lizi

Yes, I think male finsubs are rare- at least ones actually willing to part with their money! I'm basing this statement on conversations I've had with pro-dommes concerning wish lists. There are a number of men that will ask a pro-domme what they can buy her and for many of these men, there is a fetish aspect of what's on the wish list. But a lot of this activity such as going through the wish list and then contacting the pro-domme, IS the fantasy of these men. They don't really want to meet in person and they also don't intend to actually buy something for the woman. So pro-dommes put up these wish lists as a way of catering to these folks without going through too much aggravation. But having someone send something out of the blue based on a wish list? Apparently quite rare....And having talked with some sub guys- don't know anybody that admits to being into this.

My take on finsubs is that the odds are similar to playing the lottery. Yes, there are these men out there- but there aren't that many of them. Since it looks like an easy way to make money- there are lots of findommes (and scammers posing as findommes). But the likelihood of success is low. From a business perspective- low barrier to entry- potential high pay off. Gold rush is a similar mentality.

If we look at prostitution as another example- there are some women that desire to be kept mistresses. There are many more that are streetwalkers. The activity is essentially the same- but for one group, the payoff is much greater. I suspect that findomme is similar- there are a few that may be very successful- but most are not.

Sam

I actually agree with a fair bit of what you said. There are definitely more findommes than there are finsubs because there are so many women in it just to make a quick buck and disappear. I also strongly agree with your saying that there are some findommes that will be very successful and the rest won't be. It's a personality thing and the majority of profiles that I come across are the 'fuck you, pay me' types. These profiles attract the guys that just wants to get off on the fantasy and these dommes will rarely be successful simply because of their personalities/attitudes.

Also, I don't have a lot of time to really get into details at this moment, but from what I can tell in my own personal experience, the subs that are really into FD as a kink/fetish aren't posting it all over their profiles or twitter accounts or anywhere else. They're more subtle about it because while they may really enjoy being dominated in this way, they aren't interested in being bombarded with messages from strangers demanding things. There really are more than you'd think.

< Message edited by AllisonWilder -- 5/17/2013 10:15:04 AM >

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 132

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 10:41:52 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
For me, it took 8 years to find Master. I waded through the lying married men, the lying horn-dogs, the delusional '50 shades' wankers, the nice-but-incompatibles and everything else in between.

This is exactly my viewpoint. There are HUGE numbers of subs & slaves here who are incompatible with me for a wide variety of reasons. I have to sift through them if I want to find a partner here. I often wonder if posters like the OP assume that for everyone else you simply search on a given tag and presto. Insofar as "scarcity of female dommes"... while I'm sure that's true I suspect finding people of honor and integrity is way, way, way harder. So if I was going to worry about scarcity issues I'd be looking at the bigger problems. And... once again... for those of us interested in TPE the same sort of scarcity applies anyway.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to myotherself)

Post #: 133

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 10:49:00 AM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

Finsub is an uncommon kink.

I disagree. In the two years I've been here, I probably get 1-2 male subs a week asking if they can buy my panties, or have me put out a cigarette on their dinkie for $500, or send me money/gifts (and I'm an owned slave). If even submissive women are getting these offers, think how often dominant women are.

_____________________________

No longer searching -- found my one and only right here on CM

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 134

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/17/2013 11:25:09 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Hi Alison

Could be- but I suspect it may be very difficult to tell what's going on from the outside- and perhaps even those in this type of relationship may not be clear. Money in this society often represents power and there are folks on this site who are interested in changing power dynamics. For some subs- giving a domme money may equate to control- or it may be that giving money represents removal of choice and becomes a relief- same as a cult. Maybe in some cases a bit of both. Complex behaviors often can have conflicting desires. (OK, I'm on a Caleb Carr kick- just finished the Alienist, now reading Angel of Darkness.) However, money in d/s relationships is a common theme and it can be very hard to tease out whether that's the driving force of the relationship aka findomme- or merely part of the fantasy like high heeled boots. Some men may be reluctant to say that they've visited prodommes having connotations of prostitution and prefer calling these women findommes instead. Note- I'm guessing here.

Searching-

There is no question that there's a lot of fantasy going on here. My comment is that there will be a number of men who will bombard women with "what can I buy you?" emails- but that nothing other than additional emails will ever arrive. I suspect that had you responded to any of the offers you'd received- you'd find that if actual $$ needed to be spent- the men would evaporate. That's been the experience of the pro-dommes I've spoken with.

Sam

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 135

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/19/2013 10:32:49 PM

AllisonWilder

Posts: 296
Joined: 10/8/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Hi Alison

Could be- but I suspect it may be very difficult to tell what's going on from the outside- and perhaps even those in this type of relationship may not be clear. Money in this society often represents power and there are folks on this site who are interested in changing power dynamics. For some subs- giving a domme money may equate to control- or it may be that giving money represents removal of choice and becomes a relief- same as a cult. Maybe in some cases a bit of both. Complex behaviors often can have conflicting desires. (OK, I'm on a Caleb Carr kick- just finished the Alienist, now reading Angel of Darkness.) However, money in d/s relationships is a common theme and it can be very hard to tease out whether that's the driving force of the relationship aka findomme- or merely part of the fantasy like high heeled boots. Some men may be reluctant to say that they've visited prodommes having connotations of prostitution and prefer calling these women findommes instead. Note- I'm guessing here.

Searching-

There is no question that there's a lot of fantasy going on here. My comment is that there will be a number of men who will bombard women with "what can I buy you?" emails- but that nothing other than additional emails will ever arrive. I suspect that had you responded to any of the offers you'd received- you'd find that if actual $$ needed to be spent- the men would evaporate. That's been the experience of the pro-dommes I've spoken with.

Sam

I agree that it's difficult to tell what's going on from the outside, however, as a findomme, I suspect that I can consider myself privy to the inner-workings of some of this financial domination stuff. It's not just all 'take my money' emails and then nothing more. There's actually a great deal of subs on this very site that follow through.

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 136

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/20/2013 1:46:07 PM

CynthiaWVirginia

Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

...about every woman on this site, no matter what sexual orientation box they check off, has had out of the blue offers from men asking to send them money. I also think that the hordes of finDommes out there proves that there is a market supporting them.

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 137

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/20/2013 7:23:45 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I just looked at the first few entries from a Twitter search for #findom, and the number of subs with Twitter presence appears to be in the thousands, at least. If just a few percent actually buy something off a wish list, that seems consistent with the more general ratio of only a few percent of male subs more interested in serving the needs of the mistress than in satisfying their own fetish fantasy. So I don't see, offhand, why the numbers would be any different for finsub than for any other kind of ___sub, if sub really means sub, instead of bottom or fetishist.

These are just more facts in the pot confirming Simply Micheal's view that males subs are the craziest wankers trolling about the earth.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 138

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/22/2013 6:26:51 PM

Steadygoing

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/5/2012
From: Manchester, United Kingdom
Status: offline

Well I suppose it makes it time consuming searching through multiple profiles before finding just one potential partner.. A suggestion I could make is add findom to some kind of search tickbox, I don't even think there is an "interest" option to add to your profile for it and search that way either?

Other than that, the majority are pretty easy to spot while browsing as they have $ signs all over their profiles and state it in big bold letters which is pretty handy.

So, could be more convenient by adding a way to filter searches I suppose?

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 139

RE: Findom makes it hard for subs. - 5/23/2013 6:35:10 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AliceMajesty

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
I would suggest that while findomme may be a legitimate kink- it is so rare that to try and cater to the people that wish to indulge in it has cost this website and many of us dearly. Scammers take our time, money and dignity and there is no sexual gratification there- just the same thrill as a common con man. Scammers outnumber the successful findommes by orders of magnitude on this site- its a sad fact of life.

I don't really see where you get your expertise from, how do you know who is fake and who's "legitimate"? Define a "scammer FinDomme". Because doesn't scamming mean you fool someone out of their money with dishonesty? Well then findom is never a scam, since it's always open about being findom. Not everything involving money is financial domination. You might not enjoy findom, but then just don't participate, don't go around calling people scammers and advocate discrimination. Honestly, I'd think the BDSM community would be more accepting than that.

Scammers take your time, money and dignity? No. Why are you giving your time and money to FinDommes if you're not into findom? If you're doing that, and then coming here to complain about it, then you are giving up your own dignity - no one stole it from you.

And, for the record, I come across plenty of finsubs, it's not that uncommon.

Findom is never a scam? Seriously? Just because you are honest in your dealings with others, don't assume everyone is. I would be willing to bet that a fair amount of the princess profiles on the other side not only are scammers who have no intention of ever meeting or forming a real relationship with their marks, but they aren't even female.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 5/23/2013 6:43:24 AM >

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to AliceMajesty)

Post #: 140

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