RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but....

RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 9:53:13 AM)
And that has what to do with the people waiting in the ER waiting room for treatment and if they should be getting treatment or not?

pahunkboy -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 9:58:51 AM)
It demonstrates that in one instance- best use of services failed- and in the other case- best use of services prevailed. Dont forget- if people hog resources- that can deny from someone who needs it- for instance- a drug abuser who goes to the ER for dope. People are voting with their feet by medical tourism- you can got to India and get heart surgery for 1/10 the cost here. I am 100% for empowering the human. Corporations make laws that boost their profits- so they put a squeeze on resources and this jacks up the price.

tj444 -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:00:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower Back in 2005 I worked for a short period of time as a care staff....and I worked with an elderly man in his end 70s or early 80s...he has had no fever, has been awake, was breathing normally, did not lose any blood....and yet, call me weird, but I called the ambulance for him... And why....simply because he dreamed to be dying and felt rotten... And as I am a big believer in taking dreams seriously, I was not taking any chance... I would say you could walk down any street and drag every 70+ aged person to the doctor and he/she would find something medically wrong with all or most of them.. cuz the body breaks down as it ages and at that age, I would guess a lot has broken down!.. And I would actually take the guy's "feeling rotten" to possibly be a sign something might be wrong, not his dreams.. I could dream of being in Brad Pitt's bed, that does not have a hope in hell of ever being so.. hmm, I think I will go have a lil nappy.. [:D]

Lucylastic -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:06:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I woke up one morning with numbness in my face and bad eyes, I went to my doctor, who sent me immediately to the ER, where they sat me down for threee hours, apart from my face, I looked completely normal, no fever, nothing. I had bells palsy. and ended up having a cat scan And I live in canada, where my health care is socialised... Another time he sent me to emerg for walking pneumonia, the fact that emerg can get stuff done faster than booking an appointment for tests is another reason people go. People ASSume for all kinds of reasons, and are blooody ignorant 99% of the time With those symptoms I would have gone to the ER. That is an obvious potential emergency. So it really doesn't affect my point at all. Yes it does, because I had gone to my own Doc he SENT me. but I was just someone with no seeming injury in both cases to the people there, one who muttered, "people who have nothing wrong with them should be arrested". You said.... quote: There is truth here. It is often simply common sense to figure out what is an emergency, and what can be taken care of by a normal visit to your PCP. I didnt make that determination of it being an emergency, I was happy to go to my doc. quote: It doesn't take a medical degree to know a runny nose and cough can be taken care of by visiting your PCP. Yet I have seen people go to the ER for less, family included. Now.... Actually , yes it does negate your points, simply because , unless you are medically able to assess what a roomful of ER clients are doing there, you are simply guessing, and unless you are making a survey of what someone is there for, and what they actually end up diagnosed with, while there, it is basically an ignorant one... I have NO doubt that people use it wrongly, I know it from personal experience working and as a patient, but you are just tarring everyone with the same brush Addicts,of all kinds use them, psych cases use them and many others, but to say people with runny noses and cough etc, can be taken care of by their PCP is not always true.

tazzygirl -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:07:36 AM)
quote: It demonstrates that in one instance- best use of services failed- and in the other case- best use of services prevailed. No it doesnt. It demonstrates that you didnt get the service you feel you should have. That doesnt mean it failed. quote: Dont forget- if people hog resources- that can deny from someone who needs it- for instance- a drug abuser who goes to the ER for dope. Many people hog many resources. Including silver [;)] quote: People are voting with their feet by medical tourism- you can got to India and get heart surgery for 1/10 the cost here. I am 100% for empowering the human. I am too. Who is going to pay for that trip? Those in the ER's are not rich people... most arent even well off. And you never once talk about those patients who were told by their PCP's to go to the hospital. quote: Corporations make laws that boost their profits- so they put a squeeze on resources and this jacks up the price. Earlier you said it was because of people who didnt need care. Which is it?

Raiikun -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:07:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I woke up one morning with numbness in my face and bad eyes, I went to my doctor, who sent me immediately to the ER, where they sat me down for threee hours, apart from my face, I looked completely normal, no fever, nothing. I had bells palsy. and ended up having a cat scan And I live in canada, where my health care is socialised... Another time he sent me to emerg for walking pneumonia, the fact that emerg can get stuff done faster than booking an appointment for tests is another reason people go. People ASSume for all kinds of reasons, and are blooody ignorant 99% of the time With those symptoms I would have gone to the ER. That is an obvious potential emergency. So it really doesn't affect my point at all. Yes it does, because I had gone to my own Doc he SENT me. but I was just someone with no seeming injury in both cases to the people there, one who muttered, "people who have nothing wrong with them should be arrested". You said.... quote: There is truth here. It is often simply common sense to figure out what is an emergency, and what can be taken care of by a normal visit to your PCP. I didnt make that determination of it being an emergency, I was happy to go to my doc. quote: It doesn't take a medical degree to know a runny nose and cough can be taken care of by visiting your PCP. Yet I have seen people go to the ER for less, family included. Now.... Actually , yes it does negate your points, simply because , unless you are medically able to assess what a roomful of ER clients are doing there, you are simply guessing, and unless you are making a survey of what someone is there for, and what they actually end up diagnosed with, while there, it is basically an ignorant one... I have NO doubt that people use it wrongly, I know it from personal experience working and as a patient, but you are just tarring everyone with the same brush Addicts,of all kinds use them, psych cases use them and many others, but to say people with runny noses and cough etc, can be taken care of by their PCP is not always true. No it doesn't negate my point. To claim otherwise shows lack of understanding of what my point is. Your response though doesn't even address it really, much less negate it. The inability to guess why each person in an ER is there has no relevance to the basis of my point.

tazzygirl -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:08:58 AM)
quote: I could dream of being in Brad Pitt's bed, that does not have a hope in hell of ever being so.. hmm, I think I will go have a lil nappy.. LOL enjoy! quote: And I would actually take the guy's "feeling rotten" to possibly be a sign something might be wrong, not his dreams This I agree with.. especially at that age.

Lucylastic -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:16:37 AM)
LOL its useless, you made a statement, that showed a lack of understanding (actually two of them.) quote: There is truth here. It is often simply common sense to figure out what is an emergency, and what can be taken care of by a normal visit to your PCP. AND quote: It doesn't take a medical degree to know a runny nose and cough can be taken care of by visiting your PCP. Yet I have seen people go to the ER for less, family included but now you claim I dont understand what you said. When its quite plainly easy to understand. im not playing semantics with you, you arent responsible for what you actually say.

Raiikun -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:18:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic LOL its useless, you made a statement, that showed a lack of understanding (actually two of them.) quote: There is truth here. It is often simply common sense to figure out what is an emergency, and what can be taken care of by a normal visit to your PCP. AND quote: It doesn't take a medical degree to know a runny nose and cough can be taken care of by visiting your PCP. Yet I have seen people go to the ER for less, family included but now you claim I dont understand what you said. When its quite plainly easy to understand. im not playing semantics with you, you arent responsible for what you actually say. Then it should be obvious to you why those points haven't been negated. That it wasn't obvious to you led me to assume that you were reading stuff into my points that weren't there, like Tazzy so often does.

tazzygirl -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:37:04 AM)
quote: There is truth here. It is often simply common sense to figure out what is an emergency, and what can be taken care of by a normal visit to your PCP. No its not. The man's PCP thought he had a stomach virus. The ER agreed... until the ct scan revealed a perforated appendix. Never saw a group apologize so quickly and move him into a room so fast. quote: It doesn't take a medical degree to know a runny nose and cough can be taken care of by visiting your PCP. Yet I have seen people go to the ER for less, family included It requires a medical degree to know why there is a runny nose and a cough. People can assume its the common cold all day long. Many conditions result in a runny nose and a cough. Some are life threatening. Again, without a medical degree, someone who makes such a claim is talking about their ass. Edited to keep it within TOS [;)]

pahunkboy -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 10:55:15 AM)
Tazz, as long as you side with K street- I am afraid you and I have lost common ground. When you celebrate rules and regs written by the very corporations they are meant to reign in- I am afraid you are not part of the solution.

tazzygirl -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 11:06:10 AM)
Im siding with patients, pahunk. Thats what a nurse does, advocate for the patient, among other things. And I will continue to do so. It has nothing to do with "k-street" or the "government" or some silly notion about Article 21 or anything else. In the matter of health care, I will side with the patient when its possible to do so.

Lucylastic -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 11:07:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic LOL its useless, you made a statement, that showed a lack of understanding (actually two of them.) quote: There is truth here. It is often simply common sense to figure out what is an emergency, and what can be taken care of by a normal visit to your PCP. AND quote: It doesn't take a medical degree to know a runny nose and cough can be taken care of by visiting your PCP. Yet I have seen people go to the ER for less, family included but now you claim I dont understand what you said. When its quite plainly easy to understand. im not playing semantics with you, you arent responsible for what you actually say. Then it should be obvious to you why those points haven't been negated. That it wasn't obvious to you led me to assume that you were reading stuff into my points that weren't there, like Tazzy so often does. Im not responsible for your inability to post what you mean Only what you actually said

pahunkboy -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 11:12:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im siding with patients, pahunk. Thats what a nurse does, advocate for the patient, among other things. And I will continue to do so. It has nothing to do with "k-street" or the "government" or some silly notion about Article 21 or anything else. In the matter of health care, I will side with the patient when its possible to do so. Then why does an aspirin in the hospital cost $46.79 ?

TheRockUHoldOnto -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 11:20:39 AM)
A significant number of Doctors have and will retire when Obamacare is fully in place (2014) Many doctors are OPTING OUT of insurance and will deal directly with their patients. Unfortunately Health CARE is not what is going on - PROFITS & CONTROL are the goal of the unholy alliance that brought this monstrosity to reality.

tazzygirl -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 11:23:46 AM)
What does that have to do with being a patient advocate and wanting people to get care when they need it? 1 - Because not everyone can pay their bills. That cost is shifted onto those who can, via health insurance. 2 - Because hospitals have to recoup costs somehow, pay for the incidentals in running the hospital... power, water, food, ect ect ect. 3 - NOBODY PAYS RETAIL The majority of hospitals are required by law to treat any person who walks into an emergency room whether that person has insurance or not. To make up for those who cannot or will not pay, a hospital sets its so-called gross charges very high. At the same time, hospitals negotiate contracts with managed care and commercial insurance carriers that specify prices much lower than the gross charges. Medicare and Medicaid dictate lower rates for medical services to hospitals. In virtually every instance, “we get paid a lot less than we bill,” said Michelle Leone, senior vice president for revenue cycle operations at Continuum Health Partners in New York City. You may receive a statement that shows your E.R. visit totaled $3,000, for example, but your insurer may agree to pay just $500, which the hospital will accept. Depending on your plan, you owe either a portion of that $500 — say, 20 percent, after a deductible — or a co-payment. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/health/07patients.html?_r=0 Take your pick as to why. lets not forget those CEO's and COO's need a new home every year. [;)]

tazzygirl -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 11:25:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheRockUHoldOnto A significant number of Doctors have and will retire when Obamacare is fully in place (2014) Many doctors are OPTING OUT of insurance and will deal directly with their patients. Unfortunately Health CARE is not what is going on - PROFITS & CONTROL are the goal of the unholy alliance that brought this monstrosity to reality. A threat that has been made ever since Medicare went into effect... and every time Medicare cost changes have been proposed. When they leave, others will be there to replace them. Either US trained or from other countries.

pahunkboy -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 11:37:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What does that have to do with being a patient advocate and wanting people to get care when they need it? 1 - Because not everyone can pay their bills. That cost is shifted onto those who can, via health insurance. 2 - Because hospitals have to recoup costs somehow, pay for the incidentals in running the hospital... power, water, food, ect ect ect. 3 - NOBODY PAYS RETAIL The majority of hospitals are required by law to treat any person who walks into an emergency room whether that person has insurance or not. To make up for those who cannot or will not pay, a hospital sets its so-called gross charges very high. At the same time, hospitals negotiate contracts with managed care and commercial insurance carriers that specify prices much lower than the gross charges. Medicare and Medicaid dictate lower rates for medical services to hospitals. In virtually every instance, “we get paid a lot less than we bill,” said Michelle Leone, senior vice president for revenue cycle operations at Continuum Health Partners in New York City. You may receive a statement that shows your E.R. visit totaled $3,000, for example, but your insurer may agree to pay just $500, which the hospital will accept. Depending on your plan, you owe either a portion of that $500 — say, 20 percent, after a deductible — or a co-payment. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/health/07patients.html?_r=0 Take your pick as to why. lets not forget those CEO's and COO's need a new home every year. [;)] Well then explain to me why price lists are not clearly posted or known to the customer. When I go to a mechanic- the price list is there to see what a brake job or oil change costs. There is no such price lists for hospitals. One expert I went to I had to agree to personally cover the cost- if the insurance did not pay- when I asked what the cost was for that procedure the girl had no clue-- yet I was expected to sign her paper.

tazzygirl -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 11:50:29 AM)
Depends on state law. Maybe you need to get out of local politics and into the state level. But, do stop blaming people who are sick for the costs of health care. They simply dont want to be sick. As to the paper you signed, they cant give you an exact quote. Some hospitals are required to post room abd board fees. I know Ohio made that the law.

pahunkboy -> RE: I never really thought the Affordable health care act was perfect, but.... (6/16/2013 12:02:04 PM)
When a grocery store- (weis) sells both groceries and rxs, is it to their advantage financially to sell more rxs? Weis- financially benefits when people eat GMO-/or processed/substandard foods. The poor health then translates into more cost- and more profit. Wouldn't you think Weis could do more on the healthy lifestyle front? As a nurse- you would know that simply being dehydrated can result in a person needing an RX. My point is- when corporations financially profit from illness- we will see more of it- in order to boost profits. If there was a cure for cancer, would this be allowed to be used by the large corporations? Or might they profit handsomely from chemo sessions and the current regiment? Ponder that. The entire idea is to maximize monetary profits for corporations- when you throw money at a problem you will reap more of this same problem. Consider patents on medications, note how the corps fight like crazy to hoard the formula- Todays process is to put up road blocks- a toll road of sorts for any thing possible--- and health care is the big pay off- If a $10 pill would cure cancer, would the industry allow it to be released to the public?

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