Unrest in Brazil (Full Version)

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Zonie63 -> Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 7:43:05 AM)

Is global unrest on the rise? It just seems as if there are more and more countries which are having massive protests, riots, uprisings. Much of it seems economic, the eternal battle between the haves and the have nots.

http://world.time.com/2013/06/18/brazils-protests-social-inequality-and-world-cup-spending-fuel-mass-unrest/

quote:

Protesters’ grievances are united around a common theme: social inequity. They decry a political culture marked by corruption, a general lack of a return on high taxes, and point to inadequate government upkeep and spending on infrastructure, education and healthcare. That stands in stark contrast to the country’s preparations for the FIFA World Cup, which takes place in Brazil next year to the tune of some $14 billion of state investment. The tournament’s lavish funding has served to illustrate the divide between the country’s haves and have-nots. To that end, protests also marred the opening game of the smaller Confederations Cup soccer tournament on Saturday, which takes place in the World Cup host country a year before the real tournament. “The government pays for the World Cup but we don’t have hospitals. We don’t have schools, education,” says Felipe Goncalves, a 33-year-old human resources worker.

“It’s absolutely not just about a rise in bus fares, that was just the last straw,” says Veera, the student, clutching her flowers. Commentators and protesters alike see the current unrest as a symptom of the country’s dramatic rise on the world stage. During the recent presidency of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, known as Lula, the country saw huge annual growth, with 2010 —Lula’s last year in power — delivering a 7.5 percent rise in GDP. Wages continue to rise and some 35 million people have been lifted out of poverty. Consumer credit was a major factor in that success and created a middle class whose demands are rising rapidly.

Read more: http://world.time.com/2013/06/18/brazils-protests-social-inequality-and-world-cup-spending-fuel-mass-unrest/#ixzz2WfhZUrMe


I guess the question is, are the wealthy and powerful of this world reasonable enough to be willing to give up some of their wealth for the sake of global peace and stability. Or will they be holding on for dear life to every penny, leaving countless billions impoverished and hungry, setting the stage for escalated unrest and possible global conflict? Social inequity, cuts in social services, raising bus fares on the poor to pay for more luxury for the rich.

It seems to me that those at the top, those who hold all the cards and could easily end this growing unrest with a simple stroke of a pen, refuse to do what's right. The reports indicate that these are mostly peaceful protests in Brazil, so it seems like they're asking nicely. How the government responds to nice requests will determine whether subsequent requests will be as nice.

Even here in the United States, I wonder if we're heading in the same direction.

I guess I just don't understand the mentalities of the wealthy and powerful in this world. What goes on in their heads? What are they thinking? When all they have to do is implement a few reforms, comply with the demands of the people, and stop being so greedy, all they do is send out the police, military, and just to try crush people. All they have to do is raise wages, lower prices, increase social services and education, and create a better life for their people, yet they refuse. It seems all so simple, yet they'd rather start a war than do what's right.




vincentML -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 8:26:28 AM)

quote:

I guess the question is, are the wealthy and powerful of this world reasonable enough to be willing to give up some of their wealth for the sake of global peace and stability.

No! Of course not. Greed is good. Social justice threatens. In Brazil the wealth gap between peasants and landowners is huge and the rules are biased against the landless. New laws were put in place to share federal lands but the monied land-squatters delay justice in every way they can.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 8:52:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I guess the question is, are the wealthy and powerful of this world reasonable enough to be willing to give up some of their wealth for the sake of global peace and stability.

No! Of course not. Greed is good. Social justice threatens. In Brazil the wealth gap between peasants and landowners is huge and the rules are biased against the landless. New laws were put in place to share federal lands but the monied land-squatters delay justice in every way they can.



Vincent, I'm recently unemployed and I doubt I'll ever go back to work, again. Could you give me $150 per month towards my bills?



Peace and comfort,



Michael




YN -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 9:10:06 AM)

Brasil has many internal contradictions, social, political, and economic, and additionally is a fast growing and emerging economy, with more industry and infrastructure development by the day.

Much as the country is growing, and with the current contradictions needing resolution, they must continually hit moving targets in this dynamic set of circumstances.

And while Brasil is a Latin American country, much as the other conquistadores (English, French, Spanish, Dutch) brought their own special flavours to the Americas, the Portuguese had their own style.

In addition, you may recall the King of Portugual was chased out of Europe and set up his court in Brasil for a time, and the great revolutions which cumulated with all being freed and Brasil made a republic did not occur until the 1889. Even then any who could not read or write could not vote for several more generations. Then there were the century of right-wing coups, and none of these were good for the working class.

There are huge populations of Indians and and the descendants of African slaves who never really have been other than second class citizens.





OrionTheWolf -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 9:51:17 AM)

edited because it is not worth it.




pahunkboy -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 9:57:39 AM)

Zone- this unrest has been brewing for a long time. Consider that the olympics are there soon, and their central bank backs it. Apparently the masses is fed up with the elite queesing them for every penny. No doubt it will get worse before it gets better.




popeye1250 -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 11:54:40 AM)

I think we need to start having giant protests all over the U.S. like we did in the 1960's.
If our govt. won't listen to us we make them listen!




vincentML -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 12:12:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I guess the question is, are the wealthy and powerful of this world reasonable enough to be willing to give up some of their wealth for the sake of global peace and stability.

No! Of course not. Greed is good. Social justice threatens. In Brazil the wealth gap between peasants and landowners is huge and the rules are biased against the landless. New laws were put in place to share federal lands but the monied land-squatters delay justice in every way they can.



Vincent, I'm recently unemployed and I doubt I'll ever go back to work, again. Could you give me $150 per month towards my bills?



Peace and comfort,



Michael


Michael, the landless farmers in Brazil are not asking for handouts. They are asking for the opportunity to WORK by farming Federal land that has been usurped by armed and murderous landholders. They are seeking to raise themselves by their own labour and not be slaves to the wealthy. They wait in temporary agrarian slums by the wayside under threat of murder and without work while the land which was promised to them by their government remains withheld by graft and corruption. Your comments show you clueless about the inhumanity and long term suffering of these people. WWJD?




YN -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 1:39:52 PM)

The demonstrations n Brasil are about far many more things then the rurales, peones, and land.

The people demonstrate against corruption in government, against the poor public services, against the money being spent on the Olympics/football World Cup/Confederation Cup stadiums and other infrastructure, the poor quality of public transportation, the poor quality of the educational system, inflation and the economy, and often also local issues.

Many of the demonstrators are middle class.




Real0ne -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 4:26:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
I guess the question is, are the wealthy and powerful of this world reasonable enough to be willing to give up some of their wealth for the sake of global peace and stability.


are you kidding me? Most of the money to be made is in global instability and war! No one wants war now days except those who can profit from it.


Or will they be holding on for dear life to every penny, leaving countless billions impoverished and hungry, setting the stage for escalated unrest and possible global conflict? Social inequity, cuts in social services, raising bus fares on the poor to pay for more luxury for the rich.




what do they give a shit about anyone else?

the whole damn place is one huge plantation run by the ancient reconstructed corporate feudal pyramid scheme with a face lift, government and otherwise.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 5:29:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Is global unrest on the rise? It just seems as if there are more and more countries which are having massive protests, riots, uprisings. Much of it seems economic, the eternal battle between the haves and the have nots.
http://world.time.com/2013/06/18/brazils-protests-social-inequality-and-world-cup-spending-fuel-mass-unrest/
quote:

Protesters’ grievances are united around a common theme: social inequity. They decry a political culture marked by corruption, a general lack of a return on high taxes, and point to inadequate government upkeep and spending on infrastructure, education and healthcare. That stands in stark contrast to the country’s preparations for the FIFA World Cup, which takes place in Brazil next year to the tune of some $14 billion of state investment. The tournament’s lavish funding has served to illustrate the divide between the country’s haves and have-nots. To that end, protests also marred the opening game of the smaller Confederations Cup soccer tournament on Saturday, which takes place in the World Cup host country a year before the real tournament. “The government pays for the World Cup but we don’t have hospitals. We don’t have schools, education,” says Felipe Goncalves, a 33-year-old human resources worker.
“It’s absolutely not just about a rise in bus fares, that was just the last straw,” says Veera, the student, clutching her flowers. Commentators and protesters alike see the current unrest as a symptom of the country’s dramatic rise on the world stage. During the recent presidency of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, known as Lula, the country saw huge annual growth, with 2010 —Lula’s last year in power — delivering a 7.5 percent rise in GDP. Wages continue to rise and some 35 million people have been lifted out of poverty. Consumer credit was a major factor in that success and created a middle class whose demands are rising rapidly.
Read more: http://world.time.com/2013/06/18/brazils-protests-social-inequality-and-world-cup-spending-fuel-mass-unrest/#ixzz2WfhZUrMe

I guess the question is, are the wealthy and powerful of this world reasonable enough to be willing to give up some of their wealth for the sake of global peace and stability. Or will they be holding on for dear life to every penny, leaving countless billions impoverished and hungry, setting the stage for escalated unrest and possible global conflict? Social inequity, cuts in social services, raising bus fares on the poor to pay for more luxury for the rich.
It seems to me that those at the top, those who hold all the cards and could easily end this growing unrest with a simple stroke of a pen, refuse to do what's right. The reports indicate that these are mostly peaceful protests in Brazil, so it seems like they're asking nicely. How the government responds to nice requests will determine whether subsequent requests will be as nice.
Even here in the United States, I wonder if we're heading in the same direction.
I guess I just don't understand the mentalities of the wealthy and powerful in this world. What goes on in their heads? What are they thinking? When all they have to do is implement a few reforms, comply with the demands of the people, and stop being so greedy, all they do is send out the police, military, and just to try crush people. All they have to do is raise wages, lower prices, increase social services and education, and create a better life for their people, yet they refuse. It seems all so simple, yet they'd rather start a war than do what's right.


Is there ever enough? 2012 population estimate for Brazil: 194M (193.9-blah-blah-blah milion, so, round up) 35M lifted out of poverty "recently" That's roughly 18% of their entire population lifted out of poverty. The poverty wiki listed Brazil as having <11% of it's population earning <$2/day.

Nah, it's never enough, and it never will be.

I wonder how many Brazilians watch the World Cup.




YN -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 5:40:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



what do they give a shit about anyone else?

the whole damn place is one huge plantation run by the ancient reconstructed corporate feudal pyramid scheme with a face lift, government and otherwise.


Not completely, but a fair amount of the country meets those general principles.




YN -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 5:53:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


I wonder how many Brazilians watch the World Cup.



The same or greater percentage than that watch the Superbowl in the United States. Much of the world will be watching the games.

And the football hooliganism in the EU is nothing.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/19/2013 7:17:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YN
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I wonder how many Brazilians watch the World Cup.

The same or greater percentage than that watch the Superbowl in the United States. Much of the world will be watching the games.
And the football hooliganism in the EU is nothing.


Dammit. I should have made sure to have used the "sarcasm" font there. lol

I wonder how much hosting is going to bring into the country. Anyone think it won't be more than $14M?




YN -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/20/2013 4:03:31 AM)

Well "humor" doesn't always translate properly.

I took the effort to find a relatively complete English description of Brasil and its specifics and particulars, including culture and demographics. While this will not make one an expert on the country, it is a pretty complete briefing - Brasil

Hopefully the article will be of some use.





Zonie63 -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/20/2013 5:44:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I guess the question is, are the wealthy and powerful of this world reasonable enough to be willing to give up some of their wealth for the sake of global peace and stability.

No! Of course not. Greed is good. Social justice threatens. In Brazil the wealth gap between peasants and landowners is huge and the rules are biased against the landless. New laws were put in place to share federal lands but the monied land-squatters delay justice in every way they can.


Still, you'd think that even the greedy would be willing to pay for a bit of insurance to protect their investments. It would be cheaper in the long run.




tj444 -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/20/2013 5:54:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Even here in the United States, I wonder if we're heading in the same direction.

I guess I just don't understand the mentalities of the wealthy and powerful in this world. What goes on in their heads? What are they thinking? When all they have to do is implement a few reforms, comply with the demands of the people, and stop being so greedy, all they do is send out the police, military, and just to try crush people. All they have to do is raise wages, lower prices, increase social services and education, and create a better life for their people, yet they refuse. It seems all so simple, yet they'd rather start a war than do what's right.

I guess I just dont understand the mentalities of the other 99% that buy into the lies and lip service of the 1%/wealthy.. take Buffet (Obama's good buddy) for instance.. he gives a lil lip service saying the rich should pay more, he brags about how little tax he pays, even tho most wealthy dont pay as little as him.. If he really thinks he pays too little he can right a big fat check to the IRS, they do take donations, he doesnt tho cuz its just lip service and good PR to just say not do.. He tells the financial media what great banks his beloved BofA & wells fargo are and what a great stock buy they are.. yet they are the worst for ripping people off, foreclosing on homes illegally (one poor lady has been forclosed on by wells fargo twice even tho she paid of the mortgage years ago).. and they pull shite like forging documents, robosigning, etc.. Yet so many 99%ers think Buffet is some sorta hero cuz they believe he weally, weally cares.. maybe if the 99% woke up then the wealthy wouldnt get away with all this shite.. and yeah, I have said it before, the US needs a true bloody revolution.. I doubt that will happen tho, even with so many pointing to that happening in the past, you just dont have that in you as a people anymore.. everyone is too complacent now & not willing to risk what little they do have.. jmo..




Zonie63 -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/20/2013 6:01:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I think we need to start having giant protests all over the U.S. like we did in the 1960's.
If our govt. won't listen to us we make them listen!


I like your thinking, but the real tragedy is that governments tend not to listen until their own survival is threatened - and then it's likely too late.

In the U.S., our population seems a bit more sedentary than we were back in the 1960s. The younger folks might have good reason to be pissed off, though.




Zonie63 -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/20/2013 6:10:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
what do they give a shit about anyone else?


Well, you're right, they probably don't give a shit, but it would be in their best interests to start. Their vast holdings and wealth can be reduced to zero overnight if they're on the wrong side of a revolution. But if they implement some key reforms before it gets to that point, then they might be able to hold on to some of their wealth. Either they give up some of it now, or all of it later.




tj444 -> RE: Unrest in Brazil (6/20/2013 6:15:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
what do they give a shit about anyone else?


Well, you're right, they probably don't give a shit, but it would be in their best interests to start. Their vast holdings and wealth can be reduced to zero overnight if they're on the wrong side of a revolution. But if they implement some key reforms before it gets to that point, then they might be able to hold on to some of their wealth. Either they give up some of it now, or all of it later.

hmmm.. I think it depends on who controls the military & weapons..




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