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RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty


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RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:23:58 PM   
Wendel27


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 It depends on the type of entry power between reasonable grounds to suspect and reasonable grounds to believe Missdressed. Warrants are rarely used in  U.K policing...most often for mental health assessments.

(in reply to Wendel27)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:25:10 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, anytime the police call you in "for questioning" it means that they ..."need something." They don't have enough.
Just say, "I don't want you to ask me any questions, I don't want to answer any questions and at this time I am invoking my 5 th amendment rights."
Anytime you talk or say something you are "giving" them something.



Best thing to do is give them everything.....I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN!!

But seriously

Get it out of the way so they can concentrate on the real criminal... Remember the JonBenet Ramsey case? Look what happened when the parents would not talk with the police.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:41:21 PM   
egern


Posts: 537
Joined: 1/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missdressed


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

 It's swings and roundabouts Satyr here you can't use deception in interview [which can be a hamstring in some cases] but then on the other hand powers of search and entry are so much further reaching. British police can enter properties and search them along with people and buildings with far more ease than our counteroarts across the seas...which one more is a double edged sword with pros and cons.



And remember. Even if British police enter and search illegally, and find evidence that they can use to prosecute an offence, it matters not how they found the evidence, that evidence is still admissible in court.



Are you serious??

(in reply to Missdressed)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:42:11 PM   
Missdressed


Posts: 278
Joined: 5/28/2013
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

 Police cannot just turn up at your home and rummage through till they find something to convict you for. If you are arrested for an offence that is indictable your home can be searched for evidence pertaining to that crime and crimes of a similar nature under Section 18 or 18/5 of P.A.C.E.. If you are arrested for an indictable offence and have immediately left a property that can be searched to under section 32 of P.A.C.E. If you have reasonable grounds to suspect life or property might be in serious danger you can enter a property. You can also enter undfer section 17 of P.A.C.E. to arrest someone in the property or if you have reasonable grounds to believe they are there. You can also enter to prevent a breach of the peace. During any of these searches or entries you can seize evidence pertaining to other crimes under section 19 of P.A.C.E.  However the caveat to that is your search has to be proportionate to what you are searching for. for example if you're looking for a person you couldn't search in someone's sock drawer.

You can't just kick someone's door because you feel like it and rummage about.

''I don't care about police using deceit or lies.'' And that's your perrogative but please don't tuen this into some shite about how it's MERICA LAND OF THE FREE BABY THE BRITS LIVE UNDER THE HEEL OF TYRANNY because it's simply not true.


What was the case where the police climbed in the open window and found the stolen tv's that they weren't looking for? I can't remember and it's getting dark and there's no light in the shed

(in reply to Wendel27)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:43:52 PM   
Missdressed


Posts: 278
Joined: 5/28/2013
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missdressed


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

 It's swings and roundabouts Satyr here you can't use deception in interview [which can be a hamstring in some cases] but then on the other hand powers of search and entry are so much further reaching. British police can enter properties and search them along with people and buildings with far more ease than our counteroarts across the seas...which one more is a double edged sword with pros and cons.



And remember. Even if British police enter and search illegally, and find evidence that they can use to prosecute an offence, it matters not how they found the evidence, that evidence is still admissible in court.



Are you serious??


I am absolutely serious

As previously posted

“… the function of the judge at a criminal trial as respects the admission of evidence is to ensure that the accused has a fair trial according to law. It is no part of the judge’s function to exercise disciplinary powers over the police or prosecution as respects the way in which evidence to be used at the trial is obtained by them”
Per Lord Diplock Sang [1979] at 436

Leatham (1861) 8 Cox C.C. 498 at 501
“It matters not how you get it, if you steal it even, it would be admissible in evidence” - still good law today

(in reply to egern)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:48:22 PM   
Wendel27


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''What was the case where the police climbed in the open window and found the stolen tv's that they weren't looking for? I can't remember and it's getting dark and there's no light in the shed ''

 I don't know Missdressed i'm trying to track it down with google now. Northern Ireland or Mainland Britain?

(in reply to Missdressed)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:49:34 PM   
Missdressed


Posts: 278
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From: UK
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Mainland UK. They were doing a drugs search, I think, or chasing a suspect - I'll look in the morning.

But, as I said, evidence/criminal law isn't my area of expertise.

(in reply to Wendel27)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:55:29 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Wouldn't it be nice if a police officer who is shown to be lying in court had the same penalty as the rest of us?


The law re perjury applies to them exactly as it does to you or me or anyone except Bill Clinton.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:56:29 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

You have cited not a case, but a law firms opinion of a case. The case about which they opine is a civil matter in federal court and as such has little or no bearing to this discussion.

Further, even then, the opinion referenced said:

Supreme Court clarified that holding and explained that an adverse inference may not be drawn from silence alone, and must be considered as one of several factors. Se

The admissibility of police testimony in state court in criminal cases remains, evidently, a matter for the ststes.


Do you read these things before you post them?


Yes, and you should read or learn to as well, several cites in that document:

As in:

1. It is widely recognized that an adverse inference may
be drawn against a person who has asserted the
privilege in civil and administrative cases. See Baxter
v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, 318 (1976) (holding that
respondent’s Fifth Amendment rights were not
violated where he was advised that he was not
required to testify, but that his silence could be held
against him); Keating v. Office of Thrift Supervision,
45 F.3d 322, 326 (9th Cir. 1994) (same); LaSalle Bank
Lake View v. Seguban, 54 F.3d 387, 390-91 (7th Cir.
1995) (same).
2
2. A year after the Baxter decision, the Supreme Court
clarified that holding and explained that an adverse
inference may not be drawn from silence alone, and
must be considered as one of several factors. See
Lefkowitz v. Cunningham, 431 U.S. 801, 808 n.5
(1977) (stating that “[r]espondent’s silence in Baxter
was only one of a number of factors to be considered
by the finder of fact in assessing a penalty and was
given no more probative value than the facts of the
case warranted”); SEC v. Colello, 139 F.3d 674, 678
(9th Cir. 1998) (explaining that “Lefkowitz and
Baxter require that there be evidence in addition to the
adverse inference to support a court’s ruling”).
3. In light of Baxter, adverse inferences may be drawn....

And that is not the entire citations. So, spewing asswipe is not much of a way to make you look like anything other than an untutored imbecile. I hope that is not the ideal you are attempting to portray....

Because I said at the outset, filled with caselaw...........and WHOMP, THERE IT IS!!!!

Because (and that was part of the decision, the circuits had went some for and some against. Now its all for, as a matter of doctrine.


I took a quick look at the first couple cases and the supreme court made an improper and inequitable ruling.


they then continued in later rulings to nullify the the 5th with the usual "narrow" rulings.

that is how a rat gnaws its way into your house so it can shit all over your bed while you are sleeping.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:59:07 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Wouldn't it be nice if a police officer who is shown to be lying in court had the same penalty as the rest of us?


The law re perjury applies to them exactly as it does to you or me or anyone except Bill Clinton.

Seriously, how many police officers have you seen sent to jail for perjury?

I once proved that one lied and he finally admitted it. He and the judge kinda smirked at each other and he banged the gavel not guilty. Cost to the officer? ZERO.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 1:59:29 PM   
Wendel27


Posts: 162
Joined: 5/5/2013
Status: offline
 If they were doing a drugs search or chasing a suspect i'm not sure why it would be illegal? Wrong house possibly? I'll have a rummage about see what's on the information highway! 

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:01:17 PM   
Wendel27


Posts: 162
Joined: 5/5/2013
Status: offline
 Is this lied as in lied during questioning a suspect William or lied in court abou tsomething?

(in reply to Wendel27)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:01:36 PM   
Missdressed


Posts: 278
Joined: 5/28/2013
From: UK
Status: offline
I wish I could remember! You know one of those half remembered things from years ago that's annoying your brain :D I'm looking too but I can't remember enough and I don't have access to the legal databases at the minute.

(in reply to Wendel27)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:05:38 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
1. We're not in Kansas, Dorothy. Or Ohio.
2. The only point taken from the case is: In Ohio, the prosecution cannot use silence in the police station to impeach subsequent testimony given in court.

None of it applies anywhere but Ohio.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:09:19 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
I agree.
I am intelligent enough to give a truthful statement and get it out of the way.
When innocent lol

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:10:10 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

 Is this lied as in lied during questioning a suspect William or lied in court abou tsomething?

Lied on his written arrest report and lied in court.
Hung by his own dash video.

Winked at the judge and DA and walked away.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Wendel27)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:12:44 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

 I'm genuinely surprised at the difference between America and Britain if that's the case Luci. Here when you are cautioned it is explicit that what you say MAY be given in evidence and that anything you rely on in court [i.e. an explanation] may be harmed if you do not mention it when questioned by police [i.e. an inference of guilt could be made by a jury]. Over here refusing to speak to the police if you're innocent is a disastrous course action though it's occasionaly promulgated by people such as the Freemen on the Land. The only people i'd ''recommend'' holding their tongue are those so guilty they need time to construct a defence.





conquest is not a legitimate form of acquisition of the underlying land titles, though it is used to gain political jurisdiction to direct taxation and business adventures.

in the beginning allodial land owners signed contracts with whatever king to provide for insurance so that other nations would not come in and enforce their policies, (political jurisdiction), upon the inhabitants.

In the US the government per the courts has no obligation to protect, hence the citizen contract in the US (if there ever was a legitimate one) is null and void and unconscionable.

The original land owners have a full and complete right to reject ALL treaties under conquest and that goes for most of the colonies since they do not take into consideration the aborigines and summarily classify any and every living thing a subject or worse a citizen at less than subject status.

The crown has not right to your land any more than the states in america have a right to dominate our land. but they do, under the corporate veil of the police state. For you its called the "realm" for us its another bullshit supreme court decision forcing common law and the subject citizen contract and all the forced services they "provide" upon the original inhabitants without their consent. Its without consent because to function you have little choice but to join their system as they have the monopolies such that no ohter system can exist much less flourish. monetary comes immediately to mind





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Wendel27)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:14:07 PM   
KittyDeVille


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/20/2012
Status: offline
Its an indicator, that the truth might not be told. So I have to back it up with facts ;)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:16:29 PM   
Wendel27


Posts: 162
Joined: 5/5/2013
Status: offline
''Lied on his written arrest report and lied in court.
Hung by his own dash video.

Winked at the judge and DA and walked away. ''

That's terrible. Presumably though that is perjury and he's not protected by law that's just an example of a poor/corrupt DA and judge.


(in reply to KittyDeVille)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Your Right to Remain Silent Means You’re Guilty - 7/1/2013 2:17:20 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missdressed


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wendel27

 Police cannot just turn up at your home and rummage through till they find something to convict you for. If you are arrested for an offence that is indictable your home can be searched for evidence pertaining to that crime and crimes of a similar nature under Section 18 or 18/5 of P.A.C.E.. If you are arrested for an indictable offence and have immediately left a property that can be searched to under section 32 of P.A.C.E. If you have reasonable grounds to suspect life or property might be in serious danger you can enter a property. You can also enter undfer section 17 of P.A.C.E. to arrest someone in the property or if you have reasonable grounds to believe they are there. You can also enter to prevent a breach of the peace. During any of these searches or entries you can seize evidence pertaining to other crimes under section 19 of P.A.C.E.  However the caveat to that is your search has to be proportionate to what you are searching for. for example if you're looking for a person you couldn't search in someone's sock drawer.

You can't just kick someone's door because you feel like it and rummage about.

''I don't care about police using deceit or lies.'' And that's your perrogative but please don't tuen this into some shite about how it's MERICA LAND OF THE FREE BABY THE BRITS LIVE UNDER THE HEEL OF TYRANNY because it's simply not true.


What was the case where the police climbed in the open window and found the stolen tv's that they weren't looking for? I can't remember and it's getting dark and there's no light in the shed




the counter claim would read that they trespassed broke into the property

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Missdressed)
Profile   Post #: 120
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