njlauren
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:
ORIGINAL: graceadieu
I see a lot of Christians make this claim, and yet.... I don't see how atheists working to try to keep Christians from imposing their beliefs on them is any kind of crusade. Neither is responding to attacks from Christians, or accepting requests for debates from Christians. Very, very few atheists go around complaining about Christians or trying to bother people into quitting Christianity unprovoked. Pretty much just Richard Dawkins, really.
Obviously, you live in a different country than I do because in the United States in which I live, "Christian" has become an epithet used by many to dismiss ideas of people who claim the title.
In fact, when people are railing against "theists" you can almost bet that they're real issue is Christianity since Judaism and Islam seem to enjoy a "protected" status (as if a person who happens to mention Judaism when speaking against theists is afraid they'll be labeled an anti-semite).
Sorry but I see far more of atheists assailing theists than I see the other way around. Have I had Jehova's Witnesses and Mormans knock on my door? Of course I have and when I say I am not interested, they wish me a good day and move along. While atheists don't go door-to-door they certainly seem to come out of the woodwork to protest any time a belief in a higher power is mentioned (these very boards are a good example).
Personally, I don't think that non-belief in God is going to send you to hell but I have found that certain theist concepts make life a lot more enjoyable; personal property rights, charity, no murder, no stealing, ... you know ... all the little things that would fuck with our day if they went un-checked.
Unforunately, most of the people I've seen that identify as "atheist" don't really seem to have no belief in a higher power, they seem to have an agenda which necessitates the entire obliteration of anyone believing in a higher power. They're "God haters" in my book and maybe I shouldn't lump them in with atheists but they bring it on you, when they identify the way they do; just like WBC gives Christians a "black eye".
In point of fact, most people I've met that seem to not have this agenda of which I spoke are the people that upon finding out that I identify as Gnostic Christian, they ask me what that means and they listen to me. Usually, a very respectful intercourse of questions and answers follows.
Maybe you guys need to shut up the God Haters like we Christians need to shut up the WBC (I'm semi-teasing about shutting them up. I would never stand for that)?
Peace and comfort,
Michael
The reason 'Christian' has become an epithet is because of the religious right and the fundamentalist/evangelicals that suddenly, after being dismissed as whack jobs and losers, suddenly became what "Christianity" is. Bans on teaching evolution, the whole creatinism as science clusterfuck, pushing prayer in public school, the need to broadcast prayers, the nastiness towards gays that is the hallmark of these so called "Christians", and the rank hypocrisy of turning Christianity into being anti gay and anti abortion, while totally ignoring what Christians are supposed to do, love others, care for the sick and needy and making sure they are taken care of; the Christian right got so bad that it started preaching 'the gospel of wealth' that proclaimed Jesus wanted us all to be rich (and I am not talking spiritually), that the wealthy were truly blessed by God and that government taxes on the well off (presumably to help the poor) was against God's wishes, and that is sickening to me. Put it this way, you ask most people what they think of evangelical Christians, and they will use words like judgemental, nasty, intolerant, arrogant, pushy , and none of those match what Christ or Christianity taught, but it tells what people are thinking. What is amazing is these are people who claim ultimate faith, how Jesus is their buddy, yet they fight teaching science tooth and nail because it 'undermines' the faith; but if the faith is so strong, then science shouldn't be able to damage it.
The sad part is between the evangelicals and the idiots running the RC, they have turned Christianity from being a positive to being a negative in many people's eyes. A lot of Catholics, other then the true believer, my church right and wrong types, were sickened by the priestly abuse scanda and are also upset that the Bishops have turned being RC into being anti abortion and anti gay; when the fatheads in the US Bishops conference decided to go after an order of nuns who *gasped* spent their time helping the poor and needy but according to those charcoal brains didn't scream and yell loud enough about abortion and gays, it made people look at them as being justa bunch of assholes. People also note the Bishops threaten catholic politicians over same sex marriage and abortion, but when was the last time a Bishop threatened a catholic politicians who wanted to gut to the bone social programs for the poor so the rich could get huge tax breaks ?
The sad part is that most of the people who id as Christian don't fit this mould, but the extremists, the evangelicals and the RC church leaders, have been annointed as being "Christian" and they are dragging everyone else down. The GOP is paying price for this, their social extremism has major turned off young and independant voters, and even a lot of traditional republicans.
Most atheists I know don't denigrate those who believe, there are some, the Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, but they are few.
As far as why other religions get a pass, I wonder how you can say Muslims get a pass, when we have all this hysteria in this country about Muslims trying to establish Sharia law as law, how they are 'taking over', this board and political boards all over are full of the "Muslim" threat. If you think Christians are denigrated, it isn't anything compared to what Muslims face.
Jews get something of a pass, in part because most Jewish groups, even the Orthodox, don't proslytize and don't try to force their beliefs on others, Observant Jews, for example, don't try to get laws passed, as Christians often do, to get things to reflect their beliefs (like no selling beer on Sunday that has a direct religious reason behind it), Jews don't argue, as the ardent Catholic types do on Scotus, that religious and traditional belief and moral law are good bases for civic law. As far as facing criticism, I suggest you do a little googling on anti semitism these days, it is on the rise, in part because many people associate Jews with the banks and Wall Street, the tea partiers aren't just biased against blacks and hispanics, they hate Jews, too.
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