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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 8:48:25 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
that sounds like we can't prove anything but let's convict him anyway.



I disagree. 2nd degree murder was an over the top charge for this case to begin with.

What I find lacking, again and again, among the "Zimmerman did nothing wrong" crowd, is any empathy whatsoever for the victim, and the circumstances he found himself in, prior to jumping the creepy ass cracker who was stalking him. There doesn't seem to be any comprehension that this young man had every right to wander around, and take his time getting back from the store, and that in a "stand your ground" culture he should not have been expected to just run home when some pervert kept staring at him.

We will hear that Zimmerman was neighborhood watch, to justify the stalking, but few acknowledgements that neighborhood watch are not supposed to be armed in the first place.

I don't think either of the players that night were perfect little angels, or despicable demons. Bad shit happened that night, and bad choices Zimmerman made led to it.

Manslaughter/negligent homicide seems to me to most appropriate charge in the case, and I think that option should be there for the jury.



QFT

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 10:13:49 PM   
BitYakin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

you mention a 3 minute gap between the hang up and shooting, but that means there was a less than 3 minute gap between the hang up and the actual start of the confrontation...
would you say it was fair to split the differance, and assume the entire spoken part and physical contact just prior to the shot may have taken 90 seconds? leaving the uncertianty gap at more like 90 seconds?

The timeline is this
7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.
7:16:00 - 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute
7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard
7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

So 90 seconds or so from hangup to the fight starting looks right. But that still has him standing around in the rain for 90 seconds supposedly doing nothing. Keep in mind part of his claim about why Martin was suspicious was that Martin wasn't hurrying in that same rain.

I think it's pretty clear to everyone that Zimmerman was still looking for or following Martin.


now don't get me wrong here, but something about that doesn't add up,
first off I am going to give you more than the 90 sec I guessed at on the "gap" if my math is right seems more like 2 - 2.5 minutes gap

but here is the part that doesn't add up.

if the GF call started at 7:16:00 then there was this whole creepy ass cracker and her telling him to run then the what are you following me for? and then why are you here?

but the 911 call about a fight comes in at 7:16:11 which means the fight was already in progress, and assuming the person already had the phone in thier hand give a couple seconds to dial and connect it means all that conversation the GF said happened happend in the space of 8 or 9 seconds??? and then the phone laid there active for about 40 seconds

also notice her call ends AFTER the shot is heard on another call, 4 seconds before her disconnect but she doesn't say she heard the shot on a phone that should have been alot closer then a neighbors

I guess its possible, but doesn't sound RIGHT

it almost seems like the fight was in progress before he even called!
tray called her right, not her calling tray?
was tray using a blue tooth? maybe with a voice dial?
someone in another thread mentioned a headset...

cause it almost looks like tray called her after the fight began and had such an advantge he was calling to brag about how he was whipping this creepy ass cracker, then the shot happened and she had to make up a story that made Z look more guilty

how long after the "event" was it before she came forward with the I was on the phone with him addmission?

was it the next day, a couple days, a week?
time enough for her to realize the phone records would be checked and she'd have to tell em SOMETHING

and I am just spitballing here, trying to undertand these times and assuming they are accurate

I mean if those times are correct, I can't beleive NO ONE noticed this!
her call ends AFTER the shot is heard on another call

those times have to be estimates or just plain ole wrong!

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 7/7/2013 10:31:51 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/7/2013 11:58:23 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
7:16:00 - 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute

The girl called Martin? Has that been proven with data from the telephones and / or telecom provider?

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(in reply to BitYakin)
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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 1:19:57 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Only if it induced to her to make material changes to her testimony. Did that happen?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

NOT A RESPONE TO ANYONE

Isn't taking the GF to the Martin home and interviewing her with Mrs. Martin and her lawyer there witness tampering.
I know the GF was pro Martin anyway but didn't that guarantee that she would say what they wanted her to?



Since that was the first interview we will never know, but it looks bad.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/8/2013 1:21:22 AM >


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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 2:36:07 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

you mention a 3 minute gap between the hang up and shooting, but that means there was a less than 3 minute gap between the hang up and the actual start of the confrontation...
would you say it was fair to split the differance, and assume the entire spoken part and physical contact just prior to the shot may have taken 90 seconds? leaving the uncertianty gap at more like 90 seconds?

The timeline is this
7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.
7:16:00 - 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute
7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard
7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

So 90 seconds or so from hangup to the fight starting looks right. But that still has him standing around in the rain for 90 seconds supposedly doing nothing. Keep in mind part of his claim about why Martin was suspicious was that Martin wasn't hurrying in that same rain.

I think it's pretty clear to everyone that Zimmerman was still looking for or following Martin.


now don't get me wrong here, but something about that doesn't add up,
first off I am going to give you more than the 90 sec I guessed at on the "gap" if my math is right seems more like 2 - 2.5 minutes gap

but here is the part that doesn't add up.

if the GF call started at 7:16:00 then there was this whole creepy ass cracker and her telling him to run then the what are you following me for? and then why are you here?

The girlfriend called him sometime in the 7:12 minute. The call ended during 7:16.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 5:42:36 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Only if it induced to her to make material changes to her testimony. Did that happen?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

NOT A RESPONE TO ANYONE

Isn't taking the GF to the Martin home and interviewing her with Mrs. Martin and her lawyer there witness tampering.
I know the GF was pro Martin anyway but didn't that guarantee that she would say what they wanted her to?



Noone knows. Her testimony was totally incoherent.



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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 6:38:23 AM   
farglebargle


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Testimony was quite clear. Trayvon Martin feared for his life while being chased by the "Crazy Ass Cracker" who killed him. While Trayvon Martin was waiting out of the rain, Zimmerman passed him in his drug addled haze.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 6:59:32 AM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Testimony was quite clear. Trayvon Martin feared for his life while being chased by the "Crazy Ass Cracker" who killed him. While Trayvon Martin was waiting out of the rain, Zimmerman passed him in his drug addled haze.



Yes. You are right. Quite clear. Zimmerman is going to be convicted. Hitler is hiding somewhere in South America.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 7:01:28 AM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Only if it induced to her to make material changes to her testimony. Did that happen?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

NOT A RESPONE TO ANYONE

Isn't taking the GF to the Martin home and interviewing her with Mrs. Martin and her lawyer there witness tampering.
I know the GF was pro Martin anyway but didn't that guarantee that she would say what they wanted her to?



Noone knows. Her testimony was totally incoherent.




I understood her testimony "quite clearly". She and Travon hate crackers. I love crackers especially with peanut butter.

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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 7:07:03 AM   
Arturas


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I also understood Travon was walking to the store to get Candy. Very sweet. I did that a lot when I was 17. Especially on rainy and dark afternoons and evenings. I loved to put my hood up and walk to the store for candy. It is what seventeen year old young men like to do.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 7:29:51 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I also understood Travon was walking to the store to get Candy. Very sweet. I did that a lot when I was 17. Especially on rainy and dark afternoons and evenings. I loved to put my hood up and walk to the store for candy. It is what seventeen year old young men like to do.

That's right. Everyone should stay at home shivering in fear lest some dumbass wannabe cop object to you being in HIS neighborhood.
Hell, I've covered literally thousands of miles and worn out multiple pairs of sneakers jogging by that age and I was GASSSSSSP wearing a hoodie the whole time. Rain, snow, sun, it didn't matter.

Turns out, I should have just gone to the gym during the day so I could "Look like a Dom"

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 7:42:11 AM   
altoonamaster


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question is how far away was this candy store

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 8:51:17 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I also understood Travon was walking to the store to get Candy. Very sweet. I did that a lot when I was 17. Especially on rainy and dark afternoons and evenings. I loved to put my hood up and walk to the store for candy. It is what seventeen year old young men like to do.

That's right. Everyone should stay at home shivering in fear lest some dumbass wannabe cop object to you being in HIS neighborhood.
Hell, I've covered literally thousands of miles and worn out multiple pairs of sneakers jogging by that age and I was GASSSSSSP wearing a hoodie the whole time. Rain, snow, sun, it didn't matter.

Turns out, I should have just gone to the gym during the day so I could "Look like a Dom"


Sweet. Yes, I walked to the candy store a lot with my hood up because it was what seventeen year old young men did and still do apparently. Then I turned eighteen and thought I'd sign up and serve my country. My Air Force recruiter asked me what I like to do, I said, "I like to put a hood up and walk in the rain to the candy store". He said maybe I should look into the Navy or something.

I soon left because he seemed busy and I put my hood up and walked to the nearest candy store and got some bubble gum. I felt so much more better.


< Message edited by Arturas -- 7/8/2013 9:36:28 AM >


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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 8:53:32 AM   
Hillwilliam


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What can I say? At 17, some people are enjoying the outdoors and some are hoping mom doesn't catch them beating off while reading Gor books.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 8:57:30 AM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

What can I say? At 17, some people are enjoying the outdoors and some are hoping mom doesn't catch them beating off while reading Gor books.


Sweet. There are two things 17 year old young men like to do.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 9:31:25 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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Personal experience in both?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

What can I say? At 17, some people are enjoying the outdoors and some are hoping mom doesn't catch them beating off while reading Gor books.



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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 10:24:14 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Personal experience in both?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

What can I say? At 17, some people are enjoying the outdoors and some are hoping mom doesn't catch them beating off while reading Gor books.



Nah, I was actually meeting flesh and blood women.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 10:40:45 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I also understood Travon was walking to the store to get Candy. Very sweet. I did that a lot when I was 17. Especially on rainy and dark afternoons and evenings. I loved to put my hood up and walk to the store for candy. It is what seventeen year old young men like to do.


Yes as a matter of fact they do. Along with younger and older kids. I always find it amazing the kind of weather someone will go through to get candy or in the case of adults beer. It scares me to think some of them may never make it home.

_____________________________

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 11:35:36 AM   
Raiikun


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The gym instructor who is going to testify George was soft and unready for the ring just took the stand.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/8/2013 12:02:02 PM   
tammystarm


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Sweet. What about his jockstrap, was it ready?

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