RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices

RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (Full Version)

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pqui -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 2:58:25 PM)
quote: ETA: Most people will pick bits of interest to themselves in any post. I am not alone in this behaviour.... It's normal for most forums. Well, then I recommend that you stick a warning label about that in your signature, because if you don't listen to the people who know the logical chain of arguments, as well as the whole story, and you keep insisting on your uninformed opinion, you are effectively just spamming nonsense on purpose. Same goes for DesFIP who seems to suffer from your problem. You both seem to lack the basic understanding that you cannot post anything useful, especially not critique, about something that you do not really understand or comprehend, even worse fundamentally misunderstood. I very much appreciate the many other replies I got in this thread.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 3:14:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pqui I very much appreciate the many other replies I got in this thread. As did I and quite a few others. But not by reading your monologue. It was in no great thanks to someone who persevered with it that a lot of us got to know anything about what you wrote at all. It is your perogative to pick and chose what replies, or bits of them, you want to take any notice of. In the same way that some of us chose not to struggle with your unbroken writings. Oh, and regardles of what you may think of me or some other posters, seeing as we have been on here a tad longer than you obviously have (and made a shit-load more contributions to the forums), I don't think you are qualified to judge - you certainly are not in my peer group.

LadyPact -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 3:16:53 PM)
Not going to quote the whole of Kana's post but it's threads like these that make Me think we were separated at birth.

pqui -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 3:24:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC I just don't care that something hurts. I check to see if the signals from my body mean something seriously wrong and otherwise I ignore it. I'd be the worst masochist in the world because I only have two states -- ignore and "utterly overwhelming, blinding pain". And even then on the second one I just hunker down and wait it out. I can't even imagine that this is possible, but maybe we are talking on different levels here. To me it seems that you are basically saying that you can wait out on fight-or-flight mode. Well, this is really extreme and I don't know if anyone wanted it much or ever does it here, but if you get into bare survival mode and you realistically cannot help yourself in that situation you will do literally anything, if it is just something, to make it stop. You will lose control over yourself, it will be the worst experience of your life (it actually gets worse every time). It is the most extreme experience you can have. You have to become pretty much psychotic to remain somewhat inert, i.e. you will have to believe 100% perfectly and honestly that thinking certain things will have an immediate effect on reality if you are just thinking them enough. The only way you can get somewhat used to it is by real insanity. I don't know who here has ever truly been there. I cannot imagine that you do not experience at least a hint of that in the less extreme cases. But in my case it is also pretty binary, you really have seen comparably nothing until that switch is flipped.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 3:27:30 PM)
And you're probably right LP [:D] But wouldn't the world be a really boring place if we were all the same??

UllrsIshtar -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 3:47:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC So how am I supposed to know what Carol (who rejects even mild discomfort) might think of as "a lot of pain"? I don't care what some "pain slut" might tell me. I'm going to want to check the calibration and I'd be surprised if my expectations matched their expectations without at least some adjusting. Exactly. Despite the fact that I'm quite a heavy sadist when I've got the right subject, most heavy players will be disappointed the first time, or even the first few times they play with me, because in the beginning I'm all about 'calibrating' reaction to action. When I Top, I want to be in complete control of what's happening, and how it's perceived, and the reactions I create, which means that I'm all about figuring out exactly what somebody's painthreshold looks like. I really don't give a flying hoot how they tell me they react to pain, because I know from experience that that's completely unreliable. I've played with people who claimed to be heavy masochists who couldn't take anything passed a sensual caning, and I've played with a vanilla chick who had zero experience and claimed to have no tolerance for pain whatsoever, and -while demonstrating sensual caning with the intent of NOT going to pain play- ended up beating her ass so blue she had trouble sitting for about a week, because she kept telling me she couldn't feel a thing. [:D] I'm never action driven when topping, so calibrating action to reaction is the only way I use to decide what 'level' somebody likes playing at.

AAkasha -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 3:53:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pqui I entirely understand what you say about the authenticity of it, that people new to it have more genuine fear. I do also understand that there are different levels of focus to different sadists, such as fear, physical/emotional pain, just causing harm, seeing the reactions, etc. But I do believe that every masochist, no matter how self-indulgent, can be pushed beyond their limit and I believe enduring that very real suffering is the actual gift of a masochist to a sadist. Bolding is mine. Simply put, ethically and morally I cannot go there. I cannot just "push beyond a limit." Even in my most sadistic, frenzied moment, I might be able to skirt around an edge a little, but that's about it. I can't go absolutely haywire on a man I care about, because I want him back for a second, third, and fourth time. I also don't want him to press charges. I also don't want to have to hate myself afterward. I also don't want to go to a place that it is NO LONGER arousing for me. Remember, all along, there is a woman on the other end who is getting turned on. How does sadism arouse the top? For me, it looks like something on the man. Vulnerability looks a certain way. Your "place" you need to go just might not be "sexy," to some women, to be honest. Shaking, vulnerable, slightly teary, heavy breathing, drool pooling around the gag in a pathetic way, eyelashes stuck together with moisture, breath choking a bit, uncontrollable shudders of fear, maybe even moments of looking borderline "pathetic" but in a "beautiful" way - I find that extremely erotic. Wailing desperation and flailing torture of snot, blood, body contorting, acts of real torture, vomit, spit and loss of bodily functions? I will pass. Remember, your sadist must be aroused. How far does this masochist need to go? Whose pleasure are we talking about? quote: ORIGINAL: pqui It is where only strong bonding and submission can keep the masochist from running away on the long-run, where he is made vulnerable, where it all gets very intimate and sensible. It is also the part where the sadist needs to put effort into keeping it that way, so to speak to balance out the relationship equation, if that is even possible. That's why I see that D/s is a necessity to S&M for myself, because you need a very strong bond. But I don't have the experiences to tell you how that actually works out. Though how I described it is exactly what my masochism and submissive side would crave for (and its not just an excess of submissive emotion), even if that meant such relationships were short-lived because I would run away eventually. It is actually the only thing that gives the masochism any non-sexual meaning to me. I don't understand why you have to start slow, especially not as slow as you describe it. Can't you see much better if a person suffers properly if you just went from 0 to 100? Isn't that what would give you the kick of it, with someone you barely know and doesn't know how far you will go? I don't really get what the teasing is for, except if it is just meant to safeguard against legal issues. I have to start slow, for me, because it's like learning with a new lover. When you are with a new lover, do you go straight to penis in vagina, or do you start with kissing, holding, fondling, stroking? I look into his eyes. I watch how his breathing affects me. I give him cues so he knows how his body languages when he suffers makes me wet. You have to remember there is a sadist on the other end who is being impacted by your suffering and she is NOT just getting turned on by pushing a button and going "woo hoo! I am doing this!" she is being aroused by what it does to you. How you react to that suffering makes or breaks the arousal. If a man just sits there and gives a token groan, I get bored. If a man responds to fear and arousal but showing me only arousal, I feel he is being self indulgence and I want to see more fear. I like to see surrender. So when we engage each other in simple games I show him what makes me wet and I train his body. I guide his fingers to my pussy as he moans or whimpers and when he suffers "appropriately" he can tell the right gasp or whimper has an immediate impact on my body. I don't get turned on just hitting a button and watching a man shriek in pain. And I also don't get turned on hurting a random man. I have to feel lust, affection, attraction, or something for him. Early, affectionate play is also a way to build rapport and see if I even want to go to the next level. But really, above all, as I read through all of this, what you really want -- the pushing through the hard limits "past" and to the breaking point is going to be where things get tricky. I consider myself a pretty gleeful sadist. I have no desire - ever - to push past a limit, for fear of losing my partner's trust or breaking something deep inside his soul. Once you are tinkering around inside a man's head, and his body, at that level, you can't just screw around like that and leave him broken and go about your day. That stuff is best left for fantasy. Akasha

Kana -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 4:11:53 PM)
quote: I entirely understand what you say about the authenticity of it, that people new to it have more genuine fear. I do also understand that there are different levels of focus to different sadists, such as fear, physical/emotional pain, just causing harm, seeing the reactions, etc. But I do believe that every masochist, no matter how self-indulgent, can be pushed beyond their limit and I believe enduring that very real suffering is the actual gift of a masochist to a sadist. Hmm,actually, not only do I agree with this in many ways, I actually find it hot. That said, just because one can push a maso's limits (Or anyone else's for that matter), it doesn't follow that it's a wise idea to do so. For lots of reasons, starting with AAkasha's point re leaving em wanting more. Not to mention the relatively minor fact that a dominant should possess some modicum of self control, else she'll never learn to trust him and thus fully let go. Now,in honesty, I'll tell ya flat out that if you play with me a while, I'm gonna push and sometimes go through limits if I so desire (And usually I do.Oh I do. I like taking so very much.). That's partly why I tend towards TPE's-the only limits involved are mine. But that's something that comes with time, with connection. It doesn't happen overnight, or in a day or a week or a month. And again, there are still limits, things I could push but to do so would be to risk a really good thing (Like having her gangraped). In that case, I have to ask myself if the risk is usually worth the reward. 99 times out of 100 it ain't.

LadyPact -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 4:39:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 And you're probably right LP [:D] But wouldn't the world be a really boring place if we were all the same?? Very true. However, there are certain posters that I seem to identify more with on a sadism scale, others on an authority scale, so on, and so on. Kind of like when I tell certain posters on the other side of the slash that I actually enjoy their pain. It's authentic. Geez, if I were ever in the right place at the right time, there are certain bottoms/s-types that, if I even thought I could get My hands on them, I'd go for it. (Excluding those who only play within a dynamic.) Could make for some very memorable occasions.

JeffBC -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 5:26:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pqui I can't even imagine that this is possible, but maybe we are talking on different levels here. Different levels is always possible but I doubt it. There are only two instances in my entire life that I was unable to simply ignore the pain. One was "immediately go to emergency room" and the other was "dentist hit nerve dead on with needle". That second one came and went pretty quick but MAN it was intense for those 10 seconds or so. The real truth is my dominant personality. This goes back to when I was young and I'd walk outside in the middle of winter in Wisconsin at maybe 0 degrees and not feel the cold. It's a learned thing. What you learn as these are all simply nerve signals sent to the brain. It behooves one to pay attention to them but you need not be ruled by them. You can take them as data and nothing more. The reason I connect it to my dominant personality is that out of everything in the whole fucking world I want to control my own mind and body are at the very top of that list. It is MY freakin body. It doesn't rule me. I rule it. Period. I remember having those thoughts below the age of 10. quote: you will do literally anything, if it is just something, to make it stop. You will lose control over yourself, Only twice in my life and even then I retained partial control (no yelling, no screaming, no carrying on). quote: You have to become pretty much psychotic to remain somewhat inert, i.e. you will have to believe 100% perfectly and honestly that thinking certain things will have an immediate effect on reality if you are just thinking them enough. Or, you can realize the truth. There is no spoon. Or in this case, "it's just data". Practice that for 4 decades or so and you get good at it. For me, it's all about control. If I were doing the masochist thing I would have to actively choose to experience the pain as "pain" and I'd need to work at it a bit since I'm a bit rusty at that.

HarryVanWinkle -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 5:38:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt Sorry, although I'm interested in the subject, my aging eyes refuse to read the wall of text. And yes, I can read books just fine. You do realize this is an internet forum, not a book, right? If you want people to read you, then you will have to format your text so they can. The first rule of good writing IS know your audience, correct? Ditto.

cloudboy -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 8:50:03 PM)
You need to add a sensual rung. You left that completely out.

cloudboy -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/10/2013 8:59:54 PM)
quote: I'd walk outside in the middle of winter in Wisconsin at maybe 0 degrees and not feel the cold. It's a learned thing. Like the match trick.

metamorfosis -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/11/2013 12:30:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pqui I don't have in person experience with BDSM, but I am very attracted to many BDSM elements such as dominance and submission and especially sadomasochism. I have read a lot on the subject, but the more I actually talk to people about it, the more I realize quite a gap between...the actual essence of the practice, and my personal interests in it. You could say that I am overly male in many aspects that do not relate to BDSM at all, and most of them are rather dysfunctional, for example thinking hyper-rational, devoid of emotion, without empathy, aggressive and also dominant, very sex driven and open towards direct physical violence. Effectively however, those traits cannot be outlived socially, so I am basically suppressing them all the time to (realistically speaking) avoid just being outcast socially as a consequence. I do by no means feel in touch with the vast majority of people. Many things I instinctively feel or long for are not understood correctly and the same is true if I try to understand other people, especially women. I don't get where I am different and to what extends. It often seems I am talking about the same thing, but when it gets into depth it turns out to be entirely different. It is often that people say things about themselves, and expressing the wishes they have, but their wishes do not relate to reality at all...The fact, that there seems to be a hidden agreement on talking about one thing and doing a completely other thing is just mysterious to me. Maybe I can clarify on that better with this personal experience: With time I became somewhat desperate over the lack of sadomasochism, so I did build an DIY online-remote-controllable electroshock device and found a woman who used it on me. So many others were not even willing to try it and one never showed up again after she did. I asked her if I should double the current and after that it did just hurt like hell...And that is really what I was into, submission in the sense of pleasing a sadist who gets off by seeing people genuinely suffer...In hindsight, I think she was both too young and inexperienced to evaluate the situation like other people do. ...The more I talk to women it seems to really be all they are ever capable of, in both the submissive and the dominant role. The lighter and less extreme BDSM gets, the more mysterious and ridiculous it becomes to me...but we can dress up pretty, pretend its true in the bedroom and you can tell me what to do but I will always decide if I do it or not .." mentality. What kind of domination is that supposed to be, or submission even? I find that really really disturbing, but its happening to may couples and they seem to understand that as BDSM. So please, someone explain to me, what does it do for you. And what I mean does not relate to taking things into extremes, although I am talking more about 24/7 BDSM relationships here. What I mean is, what does it do to not cut to the chase, to pretend you are doing it but not really doing it, to say one thing then do another, to (metaphorically speaking) have all the getups and symbols and items hung up and ready for the party, dress for the party, then leave the room empty and go to bed without celebrating. What kind of understanding of sadomasochism doesn't involve real pain and real torture? What kind of domination can possibly exist without real points of control and what kind of submission without giving them? Please someone explain the gap to me. First of all, it would have been better to condense your OP to something like this.

metamorfosis -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/11/2013 12:58:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pqui I don't have in person experience with BDSM, but...the more I actually talk to people about it, the more I realize quite a gap between...the actual essence of the practice, and my personal interests in it...submission in the sense of pleasing a sadist who gets off by seeing people genuinely suffer...The more I talk to women it seems to really be all they are ever capable of, in both the submissive and the dominant role. The lighter and less extreme BDSM gets, the more mysterious and ridiculous it becomes to me...What kind of domination is that supposed to be, or submission even? I find that really really disturbing, but its happening to may couples and they seem to understand that as BDSM. Please someone explain the gap to me. I take it you are into heavy pain play and lifestyle BDSM. It would be wise to indicate your likes/dislikes/curiosities on your profile, especially if your having a hard time hooking up with like minded people. You need experience topping before you should ever play hard. You don't need experience to bottom, so knock yourself out. You should realize that finding the right person for a lifestyle type relationship will take time and effort. You shouldn't worry about not understanding the types of BDSM interactions that you don't like. Just accept that there are people who like different things than you, and then continue your search for what you like.

metamorfosis -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/11/2013 1:01:30 AM)
P.S. I'd be interested to hear what you got in trouble for saying on your profile, if you can explain without getting in more trouble.

metamorfosis -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/11/2013 1:36:31 AM)
And finally: I've experienced what you say the other way around. I've played with people who insisted they were going to play lightly, and did not. Part of that is people are retarded. The other part is people have different ideas of what "light play" is. I don't think there's any way around it, really.

pqui -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/11/2013 1:42:32 AM)
quote: Or, you can realize the truth. There is no spoon. Or in this case, "it's just data". Practice that for 4 decades or so and you get good at it. For me, it's all about control. If I were doing the masochist thing I would have to actively choose to experience the pain as "pain" and I'd need to work at it a bit since I'm a bit rusty at that. Well, I was talking about survival instinct and no, you can't realize that. Maybe you are lucky that you have never been there. Its off topic though, but I think that believing that you are the ultimate point of control over yourself is just not very realistic. There are limits to everything. You cannot beat nature. We can maybe cheat it a lot to get our share of control, and with practice it gets more, we can obsess about defying it, but we are by no means the authority. Ultimately, we all just have to follow the programs we are born with and that largely makes us ourselves or just human or maybe in extreme cases just raging madness. That's part of the deal if you are born human.

pqui -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/11/2013 1:57:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: metamorfosis P.S. I'd be interested to hear what you got in trouble for saying on your profile, if you can explain without getting in more trouble. Well, pretty much not more than what was already said here, just things about S&M, consensual/non-consensual, a bit about rape, a bit on the extreme end of the still sane (but with me on the passive side). As if the actual reason for the ban was "We don't welcome anything here that could be considered to cause legal issues whatsoever in any way you can possibly imagine.". And I wrote nothing illegal, not in the US or Germany, that would be a point of concern for the site owners. Maybe it was just trigger-happy moderation. Btw. it wasn't on this site but only on others. Thanks for your advice, it sounds reasonable.

metamorfosis -> RE: From a sadomasochistic POV - I am looking for general clarification on BDSM tendencies and practices (8/11/2013 2:06:47 AM)
I wonder if it might help to explain (in the profile) without getting into details, that you're interested in very heavy play and in the past you've been disappointed at the intensity of the play you've had. That you expect people to accurately disclose the level that they play at, instead of exaggerating. You also might ask to watch them scene with someone else, to get a feel for how hard they play.

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