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'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender politics via music video


Blurred Lines is sexist (topless women video)
  10% (1)
Defined Lines is sexist (scantily clad men video)
  10% (1)
They are both sexist
  20% (2)
Neither is sexist; lighten up Francis!
  60% (6)


Total Votes : 10
(last vote on : 9/4/2013 3:58:22 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender politi... - 9/3/2013 3:09:02 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		My opinion is that people are overacting to both videos - yours? (If ya'll think of more options for the poll while I can still edit, I will add them.)

Original: http://www.vevo.com/watch/robin-thicke/blurred-lines-unrated-version/USUV71300526 [topless version]
Lyrics: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/robinthicke/blurredlines.html

Thicke has come into serious criticism from rape lobby groups over the lyrical content on “Blurred Lines” as well as for the video which shows Thicke and co-collaborators Pharrell Williams and T.I. (fully clothed) being attended by near-naked women (there are two versions, one topless – another with models in nude colour underwear).

Parody and discussion: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/03/defined-lines-robin-thicke-blurred-lines-parody_n_3860969.html?utm_hp_ref=celebrity&ir=Celebrity

Feminist parody of Robin Thicke's 'Blurred Lines' removed from YouTube for being 'inappropriate'

A feminist parody of Robin Thicke’s “Blurred Lines” – a song that has been accused of blurring the lines between consensual sex and rape – was briefly removed from YouTube yesterday, leaving its creators mystified.

“Defined Lines”, created by a bunch of University of Auckland law students, features three fully dressed women responding to the attentions of scantily clad men as they sing about sexism.

The video, which has been watched more than 450,000 times since it was posted three days ago, was removed from YouTube yesterday having been flagged by users as containing “inappropriate content”, but has now been restored.

...Lyrics from "Defined Lines" include "What you see on TV, doesn't speak equality, it's straight up misogyny" and the video shows men in their underwear with dog leashes around their necks being squirted with cream and having dollar bills stuffed into their pants.
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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/3/2013 3:28:47 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Both sexist. But I'd be surprised if more than a tiny proportion of males would care much about the anti-male sexism in 'Defined Lines'. It's like comparing a pea shooter with a big old oak cudgel.

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/3/2013 3:35:16 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		Holy crap. I don't know how to vote.

Clearly, "Blurred Lines" is using topless women to get people to watch it. Um, that's been a staple of music videos since the early days (think of David Lee Roth, etc.), but this is even more blatant as public nudity is still illegal in most areas (in the US; no idea about other countries).

The parody, well, I found it funny. Yes, using scantily clad men isn't much different than using scantily clad (or topless, or un-clad) women, but the reasoning behind the use is vastly different. The parody is mocking and that is the only reason for it. Blurred Lines isn't mocking anything.

While I most definitely appreciate female nudity (couldn't care less about male nudity), I don't believe it has any place in selling music videos. Could you imagine what Motley Crue's "Girls, Girls, Girls" video would be like if nudity (full or partial) was allowed?!?!?

Google search: "Vince Neil" or "Nikki Sixx" email address....

Edited to add:

I bet Tommy Lee would be willing to come on back to reshoot that vid!

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/3/2013 4:11:29 PM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Both sexist. But I'd be surprised if more than a tiny proportion of males would care much about the anti-male sexism in 'Defined Lines'. It's like comparing a pea shooter with a big old oak cudgel.


Are you saying that Defined Lines is inherently less objectionable?

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/3/2013 5:09:35 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Both sexist. But I'd be surprised if more than a tiny proportion of males would care much about the anti-male sexism in 'Defined Lines'. It's like comparing a pea shooter with a big old oak cudgel.


Are you saying that Defined Lines is inherently less objectionable?


I don't know what you mean by 'inherently', Kalikshama. On some rarified logical-moral level - no doubt it's as objectionable as is the original.

But I don't care. On a real, practical level - it barely matters. Nothing about 'Defined Lines' makes me feel remotely oppressed. Maybe it should - but it just doesn't. Let's face it, if I didn't like a woman planting her stilettoed heel into my back, I could just pick her up and blow a raspberry on her stomach, couldn't I?

ETA - I might well blow a raspberry on her stomach even if I enjoyed her heel in my back. I just like doing that to women.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 9/3/2013 5:14:33 PM >

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/3/2013 5:12:39 PM   
slavekate80


Posts: 362
Joined: 7/4/2013
Status: offline 		Maybe I'm just not very good at reading into things, but I don't see the original lyrics relating to blurring the lines of consent. If anything, the narrator is acknowledging the agency of the woman in question... like she had a boyfriend or some other guy in her life trying to keep her from letting her wild side out, and the narrator is saying it's okay to be genuine and let loose. There's definitely an element of intentional seduction, but at no point is the narrator saying anything about forcing himself on her. The choice is hers ("go ahead get at me" - sounds like he's inviting her to make the next move; "hit me up" - the ball's in her court as far as contacting him; "so I just watch and wait for you to salute" - clearly if she's not interested she can simply walk away...) My take on it is that the blurring is between her stereotypical "good girl" persona and wilder, "bad girl" nature. It's probably not the greatest empowerment anthem or anything, especially with the association of "good" with being more sexually reserved, but it's not awful.

< Message edited by slavekate80 -- 9/3/2013 5:13:38 PM >

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/3/2013 5:32:07 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
ETA - I might well blow a raspberry on her stomach even if I enjoyed her heel in my back. I just like doing that to women.


LMFAO!!!

That is a punishment I dole out for some gals...


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What I support:

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  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/3/2013 9:46:17 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekate80

Maybe I'm just not very good at reading into things, but I don't see the original lyrics relating to blurring the lines of consent. If anything, the narrator is acknowledging the agency of the woman in question... like she had a boyfriend or some other guy in her life trying to keep her from letting her wild side out, and the narrator is saying it's okay to be genuine and let loose. There's definitely an element of intentional seduction, but at no point is the narrator saying anything about forcing himself on her. The choice is hers ("go ahead get at me" - sounds like he's inviting her to make the next move; "hit me up" - the ball's in her court as far as contacting him; "so I just watch and wait for you to salute" - clearly if she's not interested she can simply walk away...) My take on it is that the blurring is between her stereotypical "good girl" persona and wilder, "bad girl" nature. It's probably not the greatest empowerment anthem or anything, especially with the association of "good" with being more sexually reserved, but it's not awful.


While songs are open to interpretation, some of the lyrics do sounds like he's getting her "blasted", aka drunk/drugged, in order to get her into bed. Normally she's a "good girl" and wouldn't have sex with him, but if he gives her some drugs he got "from Jamaica", well, maybe he can get her to. If that's the "blurred lines", yeah, that's pretty iffy.

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/3/2013 10:24:03 PM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		So, I had to watch just to find out who Robin Thicke is. I don't see the issue. Hell, I've made Youtube videos with more disturbing content than that song. I'm pretty sure at least one of my songs is even questionable enough to violate the TOS here...

-SD-

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/4/2013 3:26:17 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The parody is mocking and that is the only reason for it. Blurred Lines isn't mocking anything.


I disagree. I think they're both making a point in their own cheeky way.

'Blurred lines' asserts that men shouldn't feel ashamed for desiring women.
'Defined lines' asserts that sexual objectification is wrong when it's unwanted.

They're both right. In fact, the two positions are complementary, not contradictory. There's nothing wrong with sexual desire/objectification when it's consented to. There absolutely is something wrong with sexual desire/objectification when it is not consented to.

Neither position is sexist. I loved both videos.


< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 9/4/2013 3:56:22 AM >

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/4/2013 4:03:35 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I think the original song is a long old way from being a shocking example of mysogyny. Yes, it's on a (blurred) line.

The parody is a bunch of young women making a provocative statement - against discrimination.

Which is really awesome.

Now... is it wrong that I would spank the living daylights out of the one in the specs. She has been a very very naughty girl.

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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/4/2013 6:41:00 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

My opinion is that people are overacting to both videos - yours? (If ya'll think of more options for the poll while I can still edit, I will add them.)


I think you're right. What I don't understand is, if people don't like a video or something they see on TV, YouTube, or whatever, just don't watch it. There's so much worthless crap out there, I can't think of anything more pointless than to seek it out just to complain about it.

I think there are underlying issues here which might be important, and that may be what people are trying to address, not necessarily some video. I think to focus too much on the videos themselves or on things that people say in public (such as those awkward politically incorrect moments when someone puts their foot in their mouth) tends to distract from the issues which they're presumably trying to address.


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RE: 'Defined Lines' vs 'Blurred Lines' - more gender po... - 9/4/2013 8:11:43 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
My opinion is that people are overacting to both videos - yours? (If ya'll think of more options for the poll while I can still edit, I will add them.)

I didn't even bother to watch the parody versions. The original was enough. I think our country is screwed up beyond belief and these "femenists" who are up i arms represent exactly why I'm not a feminist anymore. I saw nothing in the video except boobage wandering around. The lyrics, while dishonorable, are reeking in female empowerment. The player is trying to talk the hot chick into cheating on her boyfriend. She holds all the cards.... her and her boobs.

It's base. It's crass. It has no real performance value at all. But it is what it is.

I'm still looking for the connection to rape in it all.

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