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need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/9/2013 9:05:26 PM

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I really respect the wisdom on these boards so I am looking for advice on a very delicate subject. I'll try to be as vague and brief as possiblebecause of the sensitive nature of it. A girl I am seeing and really like recently revealed that due to a past emotional trauma/abuse she doesn't like recieving oral/cunnilingus and has never orgasmed from this. We haven't been intimate yet. My love of the joy of this activity aside, and the intimacy it brings, would it better serve her to just avoid it? But then I think, how sad for her to miss out on this! But then I think, 'You selfish jerk, let sleeping dogs lie.' Please help if you have any experience/constructive advice. Thanks. Apologies if I posted this in the wrong area or if something similar was already covered in the forum; I tried doing a search.

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/9/2013 10:02:27 PM

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You are really getting a bit ahead of yourself her since you haven't even been intimate yet. I'm assuming you will be the dominant should this continue to progress.

As such, you *could* force the issue although it will likely backfire. Contrary to the belief of many deluded dominants, dominant and therapist are not interchangeable tems and few are qualified to take on the role of therapist.

However, you and she seem to already have some good communication going on and she is definitely interested in you enough to share such a personal detail.

I suggest for now you give uup thoughts of that activity. When the two of you have developed a stronger, ongoing relationship over a period of time, perhaps bring the subject up in conversation. As her trust in you increases, she might be willing to give it a try. Then you can proceed cautiously.

Finally, there are many women on this planet for whom cunninglingus is not that interesting or exciting. I am one of them. If I had a nickel for each egotistical guy who tried to impress upon me that I simply hadn't had it done by someone talented, I could compete with Bill Gates financially. For some of us, even when done "right" it doesn't top the list of favorite activities.

So while on one hand I commend you for wanting to make it an enjoyable experience for her and not a memory of past problems, the goal (from what I get from your post) is about HER enjoyment. If she doesn't enjoy it, that's your answer.

(in reply to Coerced2Please)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/10/2013 4:24:38 AM

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I agree with LafayetteLady.
Think of cunnilingus as a limit. Since it's something you enjoy, you may want to revisit it later, after perhaps six months or so, but go verrry slow and avoid the temptation to surprise her.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/16/2013 4:47:24 AM

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Hi there, my 2 cents worth. If she's gone to the lengths to tell you she doesn't want it, then pay notice to that. I had a gf who didn't like her breasts being touched much so it was something I just got used to not doing. She really appreciated the fact that I never pushed it and never touched them (unless she was guiding with her hands) and think she used to do things I liked a bit more because of it.

I think it demonstrates that you place her feelings before your sexual desires.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/16/2013 5:09:32 AM

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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I had this exact same situation but it was 30 years ago (I am dead-curious to know if this girl is from NJ). Anyway ...

I can tell you exactly what happened to me and what I fear your fate might be:

This young lady I knew was completely okay with me, having other ladies. I was in a band. She knew what the deal was. Groupies aren't just "cum dumpsters". They can make or break a band.

She would tell me: "Michael you can eat any woman you want. What is it with you and wanting to do it with me?"

Well, it wasn't about her. I'd love to tell you that I needed her to "submit completely" and that's why it was so important but that wasn't it.

The plain fact is; without being able to go down on her, sex wasn't as enjoyable. It was more of an "exercise". She wasn't able to orgasm, except by herself so even penetration wasn't doing her any good as far as that goes.

Sure, there was intimacy but there was no climax ... no "magic moment".

I felt powerless and ineffectual. The relationship was doomed. It ended, without arguments. There was no dramatic scene. We just weren't what each other needed.

I wish I had words of hope for you but, I don't.

My best to you.

Peace,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to jola37)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/16/2013 12:50:55 PM

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I'm one of those women for whom cunnilingus is a no-no. It's nothing to do with past trauma, I just find it incredibly unpleasant. I made it clear at the start of my relationships that it's just not going to happen, and if anyone tried then they'd mostly likely find my foot in their face in a decidedly non-erotic manner.

If a woman makes it clear (as I did) right at the start that it's not an option, then...it's not an option.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to Coerced2Please)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/16/2013 1:05:35 PM

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You do not get to decide when and if to push this hard limit. She does. See, if you force the issue then you prove yourself to be untrustworthy. By talking to her about it, and making it clear you won't push it, you earn trust.

Don't bring it up every week. Wait six months, which really is a very short term in a relationship, then ask if she's thought any more about it. If she wants to talk about it, let her lead the conversation. If she doesn't want to revisit it, then you drop it.

Now if you need this in a relationship, then you folks aren't compatible and you shouldn't become intimate.

If you're fine without doing this, then enter the relationship. Personally it's not one of my favorite things. It requires much more vulnerability for me than PIV. Even inside a good relationship, it has to be a good day for me to handle this happening. There are better ways to get me to enjoy sex.

And although orgasms are lovely things, they are not the goal of sex for me. Intimacy and enjoyment of sensations are more important. For me, it's the journey and not the destination that matters.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/16/2013 1:29:14 PM

Gauge

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Well, it is either a hard limit because of the abuse she has suffered, or it is just something that you might have to be patient with and she might come around after you show her that you are trustworthy. When appropriate, if the opportunity presents itself, perhaps you can guide her into seeking help for the abuse issues she has suffered. This may make no difference in whether you will ever be able to go down on her or not, but perhaps if she deals with the trauma and is able to separate what was once abuse and what could be now an act of love this type of intimacy may be possible.

Of course, do not do anything stupid, but you don't sound like the kind of guy who doesn't care about her feelings. Be patient, if you care about her then you will respect her boundaries and maybe at some point she will be comfortable enough to allow this to happen... but maybe not. Just make sure you are OK with the possibility that this may never happen with her... and if you care for her, you will learn to accept that and figure out other ways to cause extreme pleasure.

I wish you luck.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/16/2013 3:09:26 PM

MistressDarkArt

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I don't allow cunnilingus. I have no history of abuse (and YES, rarely someone is actually good at it but most aren't). It causes yeast infections for me and I have other preferred methods for stimulation.

Keep your mouth away from her nethers. If you get to the point where you are intimate, you can always let her know it's there for her should she change her mind.

(in reply to Coerced2Please)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/16/2013 4:32:49 PM

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Please suggest counseling. Until then her passion is a BIG NO NO. All you will do is trigger the abuse and you will become her abuser and the relationship will become strained. Support her.

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 9/25/2013 6:13:19 AM

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Is this a sexual hang-up having to do with oral sex in general? That part isn't clear from what you've described.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coerced2Please

A girl I am seeing and really like recently revealed that due to a past emotional trauma/abuse she doesn't like recieving oral/cunnilingus and has never orgasmed from this. We haven't been intimate yet. My love of the joy of this activity aside, and the intimacy it brings, would it better serve her to just avoid it? But then I think, how sad for her to miss out on this! But then I think, 'You selfish jerk, let sleeping dogs lie.'

It looks like we're all in agreement here that you shouldn't push the issue of cunnilingus with your lady friend, or any other physical intimacy issue, if and whenever you do become more involved. There are some folks who are uncomfortable with being touched by others, even when it's a friendly hug or being greeted with an air kiss. With some it's only with strangers, not relatives or close friends. I've always been an affectionate, demonstrative person, so I don't really get these "hands-off" types of restrictions, other than to abide by them.

Sexual/emotional abuse can be subjective, but nonetheless is very real in the eye of the beholder. There are some women who have been "tricked" or otherwise seduced in the past by the old bait & switch routine by an immature, manipulative sex partner. I won't assume it's that kind of trust issue, though, since I don't know how unpleasant, serious or traumatic her experience was.

If this relationship has started off in a strictly vanilla capacity, I can safely predict this isn't the only sexual hang-up you're going to run into with this girl. She may be non-orgasmic during conventional sex. Are you prepared to deal with this possibility? (By the time you were to find out, the both of you may already be emotionally invested in your relationship.) Your being a 30-year-old switch, you'll have to ask yourself if it's worth having to forego what I consider to be an integral part of Body Worship. On a selfish note (not to make light of the situation), I hate to see oral-servicing talent go to waste, but specifically that deliciously submissive mindset a man enters into by pleasing his woman in such fashion. To me, it isn't an acceptable solution for you to seek out another partner to satisfy this (or any other, BDSM or non-BDSM) sexual outlet, with or without her express permission, if that's what it ends up coming down to. Nor are you qualified to work this out with her, despite your obvious good intentions. I have to agree with SweetAnise that it sounds as if this girl needs counseling to confront her past abuse issues.

_____________________________

* * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * *

_____________________________

That Orbed Maiden with White Fire Layden
Whom Mortals Shall Call the Moon ~ Lord Byron
She Moves in Mysterious Ways . . . On Your Knees, Boy. ~ U2

(in reply to Coerced2Please)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 4:08:01 AM

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FOR THE MASTERS:
Given a plain, even playing field (not abuse, guilt, hard limits, yeast infections, etc) ask her how and if she orgasms. Ask her to give you a number from 1-10 as to the intensity of it. Some are too sensitive due to a huge accumulation of (amino) acid build-up on the nerve endings. Others have lymphatic problems there. Others create "eddies" in the aorta where it bifurcates into the femoral arteries and so have a lack of circulation in that area - some have sub-clinical Plegmasia Alba Dolens.

Orgasms are like muscles: if not exercised you lose the ability and the sensitivity. Some, going thru the change - with little to no sensitivity to lunar influences - might be affected such.

Find out what she does sexually to orgasm. Most likely she uses her own fingers. When tight - and many are - she uses only her clitoris for stimulation and not the entire vaginal length.

Let her do it in front of you.
Hold her loosely. Look into her eyes and allow your lips to brush hers. Whisper in her ears the little glittering generalities...or better.
Allow her to come using only her fingers to her clitoris - ask her what she likes you to do while she is in orgasm. Some will say nothing - orthers will want you to do a multitude of things! Do this for several weeks - every night.
THEN ask to use your own (cleaned) fingers in conjunction with hers - a combined effort. This may take weeks/months even.
Then start using with a very light toy on her clitoris - and the entrance. Do not go inside yet.
Then use a higher vibration - all the way to the Symbian - if possible.
Rejoice - you're almost there! While on the Symbian (or a cheaper substitute) make love to her breasts, mouth - and ALWAYS LOOK INTO HER EYES when she is about to cum. That is a very, very strong bonding time. Averting your eyes during that crucial time is a form of abandonment we seldom discuss in these and other forums. Naturally, one can come very hard even if not using eye contact. All I'm saying is that bonding is stronger when you're looking into each others' soul.

Then ask to use the tip of your (clean) tongue AWAY from her clitoris while using her favorite toy. Let her tell you when to go there. And she will. Eventually.

Orgasm is a LEARNED response. The person must be physiologically and biochemically healthy before the orgasm can be full.
Breathing & screaming helps a lot. Teach her to LET GO (another whole topic I'd like to teach someday) by breathing and screaming. This is no time for sensual asphyxiation.
Hope this helps.

< Message edited by DrMaster4U2 -- 10/12/2013 4:23:18 AM >

(in reply to Coerced2Please)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 4:13:04 AM

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From: The cold bit of the UK
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This might work for some women. But for some of us it doesn't matter how fantastic you are at giving oral, it's going to feel unpleasant. I also hate someone gently kissing my body or trailing their fingers over my skin. I hate hate hate those 'gentle' sensations. They make my skin crawl and I want to scream, but not with joy. The sensation of a tongue anywhere near my clitoris is a major turn-off and a 100% guarantee of no orgasm, whatever the 'training' that is used beforehand.

So although this might have worked for you with someone, it's certainly not a surefire way to get a woman to enjoy receiving cunnilingus.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to DrMaster4U2)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 4:21:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrMaster4U2

FOR THE MASTERS:
Given a plain, even playing field (not abuse, guilt, hard limits, yeast infections, etc) ask her how and if she orgasms. Ask her to give you a number from 1-10 as to the intensity of it. Some are too sensitive due to a huge accumulation of (amino) acid build-up on the nerve endings. Others have lymphatic problems there. Others create "eddies" in the aorta where it bifurcates into the femoral arteries and so have a lack of circulation in that area. Orgasms are like muscles: if not exercised you lose the ability and the sensitivity. Some, going thru the change - with little to no lunar influence - might be affected such.

This struck me as "babble". But hey.

quote:

Find out what she does sexually to orgasm. Most likely she uses her own fingers. When tight - and many are - she uses only her clitoris for stimulation and not the entire vaginal length.

Let her do it in front of you.

Look into her eyes and allow your lips to brush hers. Whisper in her ears the little glittering generalities...or better.
Allow her to come using only her fingers to her clitoris. For several weeks - every night.
Then use your own (cleaned) fingers in conjunction with hers - a combined effort.
Then start using a very light toy on her clitoris.
Then use a higher vibration - all the way to the Symbian if possible.
Then use the tip of your (clean) tongue AWAY from her clitoris. Let her tell you when to go there. And she will. Eventually.

Gosh... is it really just like training a dog then?

quote:

Orgasm is a LEARNED response. The person must be physiologically and biochemically healthy before the orgasm can be full.
Breathing & screaming helps a lot.

Yeah, it's mostly learned... very hard to teach.

quote:

Teach her to LET GO (another whole topic I'd like to teach someday).

I'd like to fly to the moon someday

quote:

Hope this helps.

Not very much.

You begin with some hoo-haa about physiology - some of which strikes me as pretty fucking sketchy. If you have aspirations to teach you should figure out a better way of explaining things.

Then you outline a very crude and rudimentary "technique" which really would not work on the majority of women I've dated.

It could be, of course, that you're a fucking orgasm jedi, and you're simply neglecting all of the other things, techniques and approaches that you apply simply without realising - but no, this is advice I'd urge the OP not to to take.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to DrMaster4U2)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 4:32:58 AM

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This is so tiring. Do I really have to say that any or even ALL techniques do NOT work for ALL women everywhee? DO WE KEEP HAVING TO SAY THAT WITH EVERY BIT OF ADVISE WE GIVE???
We ALL know that everyone of is different, has a different set of genes, grew up in different families, cultures, food, traditions etc. and have different (mental, emotional, sexual) responses to different stimuli. Especially those in the lifestyle. WE ALL KNOW THAT WE WERE NOT BOXED OFF THE SAME ASSEMBLY LINE: it doesn't take a genius to figure out that we are all as different on the INSIDE as we look on the OUTSIDE. Children know that. And no, these are not just my experiences but from those in the scientific literature. That doesn't make them good for everyone. Are we ALL clear that any advise on this forum is NOT for everyone? Good - time for some STANDING UNDER. If it applies - STAND UNDER IT and let the knowledge rain from above into you - that is UNDERSTANDING. If it feels like a water splash from a fast moving automobile - STAND ASIDE.

There is one in every crowd with this - "your advise is not good because it doesn't apply to everyone". lol
DrMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

This might work for some women. But for some of us it doesn't matter how fantastic you are at giving oral, it's going to feel unpleasant. I also hate someone gently kissing my body or trailing their fingers over my skin. I hate hate hate those 'gentle' sensations. They make my skin crawl and I want to scream, but not with joy. The sensation of a tongue anywhere near my clitoris is a major turn-off and a 100% guarantee of no orgasm, whatever the 'training' that is used beforehand.

So although this might have worked for you with someone, it's certainly not a surefire way to get a woman to enjoy receiving cunnilingus.

< Message edited by DrMaster4U2 -- 10/12/2013 4:37:45 AM >

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 4:37:00 AM

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[Ed for typo]

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrMaster4U2

This is so tiring.

Then take a rest. Switch off the pc and go for a walk.

quote:

Do I really have to say that any or even ALL technique do NOT work for ALL women? We ALL know that everyone of is is different and has different responses to different stimuli. Especially those in the lifestyle. WE ALL KNOW THAT WE WERE NOT BOXED OFF THE SAME ASSEMBLY LINE: it doesn't take a genius to figure out that we are all as different on the INSIDE as we look on the OUTSIDE. Children know that. And no, these are not just my experiences but from those in the scientific literature.

There is one in every crowd with this - "your advise is not good because it doesn't apply to everyone". lol
DrMaster

After your walk, would you mind re-reading this and asking yourself the question "Is there any way this post might lead people to think I'm a bit of a dick?"

< Message edited by crazyml -- 10/12/2013 4:38:04 AM >

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to DrMaster4U2)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 4:41:26 AM

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I don't have deep discussions with someone who has the word "crazy" in their nic.

(in reply to crazyml)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 4:41:35 AM

Posts: 494
Joined: 2/16/2009
From: New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrMaster4U2

This is so tiring. Do I really have to say that any or even ALL techniques do NOT work for ALL women everywhee? DO WE KEEP HAVING TO SAY THAT WITH EVERY BIT OF ADVISE WE GIVE???
We ALL know that everyone of is different, has a different set of genes, grew up in different families, cultures, food, traditions etc. and have different (mental, emotional, sexual) responses to different stimuli. Especially those in the lifestyle. WE ALL KNOW THAT WE WERE NOT BOXED OFF THE SAME ASSEMBLY LINE: it doesn't take a genius to figure out that we are all as different on the INSIDE as we look on the OUTSIDE. Children know that. And no, these are not just my experiences but from those in the scientific literature. That doesn't make them good for everyone. Are we ALL clear that any advise on this forum is NOT for everyone? Good - time for some STANDING UNDER. If it applies - STAND UNDER IT and let the knowledge rain from above into you - that is UNDERSTANDING. If it feels like a water splash from a fast moving automobile - STAND ASIDE.

There is one in every crowd with this - "your advise is not good because it doesn't apply to everyone". lol
DrMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

This might work for some women. But for some of us it doesn't matter how fantastic you are at giving oral, it's going to feel unpleasant. I also hate someone gently kissing my body or trailing their fingers over my skin. I hate hate hate those 'gentle' sensations. They make my skin crawl and I want to scream, but not with joy. The sensation of a tongue anywhere near my clitoris is a major turn-off and a 100% guarantee of no orgasm, whatever the 'training' that is used beforehand.

So although this might have worked for you with someone, it's certainly not a surefire way to get a woman to enjoy receiving cunnilingus.

"Let her tell you when to go there. And she will. Eventually. "
Your own words imply that any woman will eventually learn to love oral.

_____________________________

I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

-William Ernest Henley

(in reply to DrMaster4U2)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 4:55:48 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
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I can and do orgasm during oral. I still hate it. And yes, my playing field is totally level.

DrMaster - right in the OP is the information that this woman struggles with this because of past trauma. So the playing field is not level. You invalidate your own advice in right there in the first sentence; effectively you're saying 'I know this is no help to you, but gosh I'm good at oral sex!'

Also, "lunar influences"? I think if we can talk about oral sex we can manage without euphemistic descriptions of the menstrual cycle.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to masmiss)

RE: need advice please, sensitive subject - 10/12/2013 5:09:58 AM

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Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
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Do you always shout a lot when someone contradicts your 'advice'?

Perhaps a nice cup of tea and a sit down might make you feel better, son.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to DrMaster4U2)

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