RE: "We did raise taxes on some things"

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RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:17:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, I laugh at someone pedantically tutoring us in something they don't quite got a basic understanding of.

The tax is 2.3 percent of the sale price of the taxable medical device. See Chapter 5 of IRS Publication 510, Excise Taxes, and Notice 2012-77 for additional information on the determination of sale price.

Now, who are those devices sold to, from a manufacturer of same? Hmmmmmmm. Not you. Let's say a hospital lets say it is a prosthetic leg. Do you think the device went up the 2.3 percent (in gross terms) of sale price to cover that? One thinks so, after all, we are not communists here. Now, the hospital outfits you with the leg, and insurance pays, and the premium set accordingly, and how much of the market is overseas and how much are the commies going to be contributing to our health care premiums?

Anybody who is really familiar with the medical device world knows these guys can pay the tax out of profits and not have any significant affect on their profits.

two examples
1) Diabetes test strips. These things sell for , out of pocket, around a dollar a strip with the per strip price coming down dramatically if you buy larger quantities (25, 50 and 100) which should tell you where the cost is. What is the strip? It is a tiny quantity of a reagent and some tubing to lead the blood and reagent into the meter. Now obviously quality control etc. does add to the price but generic strips can be had for around $0.33. It seems unlikely that the actual manufacturing costs of the name brand strips are anywhere near $1 especially as insurance and Medicare do not pay those prices for them.

2) Dialysis machines. The largest chain of dialysis centers in the US is Fresenius. The largest manufacturer of dialysis machines is Fresenius. One guess as to which machines are in all those Fresenius centers. It seems unlikely that their profits are derived from selling the machines to themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:18:18 AM

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I would tend to disagree that (so far) you look at things in a non partisan way from your posting history thus far...esp this latest post.
but I admit, I am biased....against waffle

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(in reply to DsBound)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:18:37 AM

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Maybe, you're not a statist... it just comes across that way.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:21:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DsBound
You are clearly a worshiper of the state... as a follower of austrian economics, this is insanity.

Correction, following Austrian economics is insane.

After 30 odd years of it with everything going to hell in a hand basket and the rich essentially owning everything now how much more proof is needed that the Austrians are wrong?

(in reply to DsBound)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:23:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I would tend to disagree that (so far) you look at things in a non partisan way from your posting history thus far...esp this latest post.
but I admit, I am biased....against waffle

Isn't it amazing how many ultra conservative moderate non partisan independents this forum attracts?

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:23:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, that is pretty hallucinatory. I didn't vote for Obama *TWICE* and Obama really doesn't have much to bring into this, he wasn't about not raising taxes, and it seems that it is very murky in terms of how this will bring heavier burdens to the middle class in and of itself.

Austrian Economics...............uhhhhhhh yeah.

Not a keynesian here and certainly not an austrian.

You exhibit methodological subjectivism perhaps, but it is destined to fail for two reasons, you don't know the economics, clearly, and if the premises are ignorant of fact, the perorations can hardly be serviceable or useful.

Now you may be talking about the new stuff which is easily as bankrupt as either Keynes, Smith or Von Mises etc, Austrian.

Because there was, is and never will be a free market. And simple linear calculations are foolishness in a chaotically dynamic system. (but the fairytale of the first is a bankrupter to the ideas of all of them).

You're right... there is no free market. You can talk economics out the kazoo, but if you simply settle that doesn't benefit you. Where does the current economic models lead us to? You know, at 17 trillion and a reserve that's diminishing the dollar.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:29:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I would tend to disagree that (so far) you look at things in a non partisan way from your posting history thus far...esp this latest post.
but I admit, I am biased....against waffle

I can understand that.. however, that's only because the current administration is Democrat. But I assure you they are all the same... whether we're talking Democrats or Republicans.

I don't view the taxation and stripping of my properties in return for what they offer as anything of value. Roads can be built by private parties... Republicans think I'm a liberal and Liberals think I'm a nazi. lol

I go after Speaker BONER, just as much as I do Obama... not here, yet but I do. There is a butt hair difference between the two... it's all central planning.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:37:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DsBound
You are clearly a worshiper of the state... as a follower of austrian economics, this is insanity.

Correction, following Austrian economics is insane.

After 30 odd years of it with everything going to hell in a hand basket and the rich essentially owning everything now how much more proof is needed that the Austrians are wrong?

Which country applied Austrian economics for 30 years? lol Not here!! You mean crony capitalism with a side of wealth redistribution... for about the last, ummm 100 years. You can dip in and out of American history but it hasn't been applied, maybe prior to the unification but Hamilton killed that with his love of central banking. No, it hasn't been applied. Coolidge was pretty hands off, but that was about it. Nothings been tied to the dollar since Nixon.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 11:45:10 AM

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The outraged (about this) are economically illiterate. I walk out in the morning, and face the world that greets me from my doorstep, and that world contains a government that has a defense budget that is larger than the next 12 countries combined, cannot field a half million troops, and we spend our days trying to repeal obamacare 42 times while facing debt crises because we borrow and spend on things that are meaningless, not helpful, and protecting corporate profits.

So, how do we reduce the crap in government, because you will not reduce government, you certainly wont reduce government interference in your life, and our 'Merica!!!! Best goddamn country in the world, CAPITALISM' is not amenable to that, government should be more competitive, globally, and reduce the military-industrial complex here at home, break up corporations, heavily regulate them, and hem them in and make it miserable to be big conglomerates, while freeing small business (real small business, not the NFL and Coca-Cola and so on) to compete.

But frankly when viewed at that angle, (as a small businessman myself) my onerous regulations and interference come mostly from the state, with the county being a close second, and frankly the feds are fuckin pussycats.

So, I tend towards a socio-democratic government on the order of Norway, who, since governments are necessary, seem to be the best overall example of how to do it in the world (of course, they have issues as well).

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(in reply to DsBound)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:07:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I pretty much discarded this thread at the outset, it was a foil, a right wing bunch of shit against a left wing bunch of shit.

However, the huge middle class hit is nowhere to be found. Hysterically frenetic masturbation. The hit comes from elsewhere.

Of course the middle class has been hit. Its the only place there's enough money to fund all this crap. Confiscate the wealth of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and the other top ten in the US - and you only have enough money to run the government for what.. 5 days?

The group that took the single biggest hit were seniors using the medicare advantage plans - which obama more or less zeroed out.
Second biggest hit would probably have been the unions with their cadillac plans - except that O then exempted them.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:10:09 PM

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Yeah, except there isnt any fucking truth to any of that. It is hysterical masturbation. And rather than bill gates and the next ten lets just nationalize all the multinational corporations and wall street and part em out for sale.

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RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:12:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: DsBound

Going down their list, I chuckle... I've yet to read any discrepancies. They add all sorts of feel good words to make it sound awesome and make you feel comfy cozy, but the numbers thus far are pretty accurate. AND Ask... since when does the IRS or the government ask for anything.

Oh please, AFR is nothing but distortions and as far as taxing so-called 'investment' income goes...it has been a long time coming.

I have to laugh at how the great and glorious manifestation of all human incentive lies in a free market yet the rich somehow seek to immorally justify an additional tax incentive to invest in that paradise of profit. Funny how the poor don't have any such incentives. Their incentive is mere survival and they need no tax code 'incentives.' The capitalist's incentive is $million so govt., don't touch my incentives.

I take again the opportunity to applaud those who while I could hit the golf course at noon, make $millions and pay 15% you guys are just so happy busting your ass dawn till dusk, maybe 50-60 hrs /week, make real good salaries (but mere pedestrian 'income' mind you) and pay 35%. Thank you...thank you, thank you. I keep 85% of my millions, you keep 65% of your 'great' salary.

To the contrary. I want to reduce the government take on EVERYONE.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:14:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DsBound
You are clearly a worshiper of the state... as a follower of austrian economics, this is insanity.

Correction, following Austrian economics is insane.
After 30 odd years of it with everything going to hell in a hand basket and the rich essentially owning everything now how much more proof is needed that the Austrians are wrong?

30 odd years of following Austrian Economics?!? What country do you live in?!?!? LMMFAO!!!

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(in reply to DomKen)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:22:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, except there isnt any fucking truth to any of that. It is hysterical masturbation. And rather than bill gates and the next ten lets just nationalize all the multinational corporations and wall street and part em out for sale.

think I just found my next tag line.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:23:29 PM

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if it is 'full of shit as a christmas goose' it is a winner.

from the IBD of all things:

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/2648-obamacare-waivers-probably-dont-favor-unions

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/13/obama-administration-denies-labors-request-for-health-care-waiver/

So, the teabaggers can lie and pretend, but cannot marshall credible, citeable fact, and since they are unable to address the facts as usual, they shoot the messenger.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/26/2013 12:27:29 PM >

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RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:36:02 PM

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Areas of agreement and others... corporations, they buy a politician, who regulates for them, which they do to eliminate competition. Big corp wants heavy regulations because they can afford it, where as Joe down the street can't afford it.

Our guberment is excellent creating chaos and then needing action... they are war mongers and spread fear for a living.
The militarization is insane and out of contol.

We havent had a budget in how many years... spending is off the charts because we have a pogram for everything including hangnails. Its simply not sustainable.

Then the government, being as powerful as it is, swoops in with centralized everything. Thats dangerous!

Since some is necessary, small limited government is where its at. We, the people create jobs... not the government. And like you, we are also small business owners and again, what the ggovernment provides is not enough of a value to take on the burden they are passing along to us, the people.

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:38:55 PM

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quote:

Big corp wants heavy regulations because they can afford it . .

And here is how, they know that at some point between lobbying and the idiots down there in congress who get elected end up getting industry insiders to sit on those regulatory board and insure that the corporation is given fur lined rubbers to fuck the citizenry.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to DsBound)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:51:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DsBound

Which country applied Austrian economics for 30 years? lol Not here!! You mean crony capitalism with a side of wealth redistribution... for about the last, ummm 100 years. You can dip in and out of American history but it hasn't been applied, maybe prior to the unification but Hamilton killed that with his love of central banking. No, it hasn't been applied. Coolidge was pretty hands off, but that was about it. Nothings been tied to the dollar since Nixon.

Whatever you do, don't bring up ZeroHedge

You'll only upset him.

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(in reply to DsBound)

RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 12:53:07 PM

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doesnt upset me, it makes me laugh at the slobbering imbeciles, someday they may get something partially right but that is a calculus beyond the ken of any of the wizards here.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/26/2013 12:59:33 PM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: "We did raise taxes on some things" - 9/26/2013 1:38:27 PM

Posts: 19457
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DsBound
You are clearly a worshiper of the state... as a follower of austrian economics, this is insanity.

Correction, following Austrian economics is insane.
After 30 odd years of it with everything going to hell in a hand basket and the rich essentially owning everything now how much more proof is needed that the Austrians are wrong?

30 odd years of following Austrian Economics?!? What country do you live in?!?!? LMMFAO!!!

The one where idiot Republicans believed that by throwing money at the rich they'd hire other people at living wages and the rest of that supply side, libertarian stupidity straight out of the Austrian school.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

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