RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment ***

RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 5:20:15 PM)
Oh, like that's going to achieve anything.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 5:59:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. Hunter, if you could possibly move past the point of disparaging the 90% or so of the world's population who are more left wing than you are as 'extremists', it might, just might, move this discussion along. I hope that helps. [:)] Yes, I see how you don't want to be treated as you (the metaphorical leftist you) treat others. But, then here it is again. I said let's get back on topic and three of you popped up to disparage me. Pot calling kettles things.

EdBowie -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:01:10 PM)
I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe. The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:02:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. It is nearly 250 years old, times change, at least for the rest of the civilised world they do Good, then you can discuss why the philosophy of the Enlightenment and Renaissance that culminated in the US constitution changed and the rights of man changed as well. Looking forward to your thesis.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:10:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe. The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves from said violence? I say a god given right that is not mitigated by a government.

crazyml -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:10:47 PM)
When you can get your head around thr fact that 18 positives and 9 neutrals doesn't equate to 100% positives, and when you are capable of understanding that Lending is not the same as giving you might have a more rewarding experience Oh... and here's another little clue-treat for ya..... l don't deny the evidence that in the USA c/c could have a positive impact on some crimes but claiming that 100% of the research says that is apt to make a person look pretty fucking stupid

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:13:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml When you can get your head around thr fact that 18 positives and 9 neutrals doesn't equate to 100% positives, and when you are capable of understanding that Lending is not the same as giving you might have a more rewarding experience Oh... and here's another little clue-treat for ya..... l don't deny the evidence that in the USA c/c could have a positive impact on some crimes but claiming that 100% of the research says that is apt to make a person look pretty fucking stupid By mutual acclaim we are all past the rancor...aren't we folks.

crazyml -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:14:02 PM)
Oh l do hope that you don't feel disparaged by me! l wasn't disparaging you ,just the utter shit you were talking!

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:15:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Oh l do hope that you don't feel disparaged by me! l wasn't disparaging you ,just the utter shit you were talking! Lol, look at edbowie. He's got something interesting to say. Don't you as well?

crazyml -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:18:13 PM)
I am simply trying to help you. I'm quite fond of you... you remind me of someone. Someone who talks nonsense and doesn't know what 100% means! It's very cute

EdBowie -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:18:46 PM)
Others have said as much... the poet Dryden's 'eldest law' comes to mind. Apparently not everyone agrees that self defense is a good thing, but I'm in favor of it... myself. The usual debate rhetoric seems to revolve around the logical fallacy that a right can be carried to the absurd. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe. The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves to protect themselves from said violence? I say whatever complete right.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:20:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml I am simply trying to help you. I'm quite fond of you... you remind me of someone. Someone who talks nonsense and doesn't know what 100% means! It's very cute We're waiting for a philosophical thesis from pixie. But, you can add something too if you wish.

crazyml -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:23:04 PM)
Actually I'm waiting to see whether you understand what 100% means!

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:25:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Others have said as much... the poet Dryden's 'eldest law' comes to mind. Apparently not everyone agrees that self defense is a good thing, but I'm in favor of it... myself. The usual debate rhetoric seems to revolve around the logical fallacy that a right can be carried to the absurd. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe. The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control. quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves to protect themselves from said violence? I say whatever complete right. That is an interesting point. It's also a point that a post modern philosopher would agree with from the standpoint of who judges 'right'. In my case I then have to go back to the question does might make right? In a majority of the world it does. For instance if I'm in a bad part of town and accosted by bad people, if I have the might do I have the right to protect myself to an extreme. I believe I do. That extreme may not be right in an alternate situation. But, what right does the government have to pre-ordain my right prior to examination of the situation?

Kirata -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:26:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies It is nearly 250 years old, times change, at least for the rest of the civilised world they do The age of the document is not a basis for arguing against it. K.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:29:23 PM)
My point then becomes that the government may judge me after the fact for the extremity of my application of self defense but may not hinder me until that time. And then I have to man up and accept that judgement.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:31:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My point then becomes that the government may judge me after the fact for the extremity of my application of self defense but may not hinder me until that time. And then I have to man up and accept that judgement. Which was a considerable debate for me before I decided to obtain a concealed weapons permit. It's a debate I think everyone should have with themselves rather than just assume a government will protect them and keep them from evil.

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 6:59:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence. Hunter, if you could possibly move past the point of disparaging the 90% or so of the world's population who are more left wing than you are as 'extremists', it might, just might, move this discussion along. I hope that helps. [:)] peon, let's consider that Cuba, China, Vietnam, the fallen Soviet Union have all moved to market economies after finding socialism doesnt work. European socialism is failing. And Galileo teaches us that adherence to orthodoxy is not proof of being correct. I'm sure you'll give me a link for that 90%.

crazyml -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 7:21:05 PM)
Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist?

HunterCA -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (11/5/2013 8:10:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist? You know, this is silly, and everyone is going to think its silly...but here goes. Some time in the past a guy goaded me, just like you're doing now. I succumbed to the goading. What I ended up doing was unofficially fighting the Mexican nation martial arts champion. After I kicked his ass I became pretty good friends with him. He told me that he knew for a fact that the guy who goaded me into the fight had a real tiny dick. No shit. If the fight had been official I could have made a lot of money. But, that was over thirty years ago when I was a child. Since then I've accomplished a lot of cool things. It's actually nice to look on a life of accomplishments. Even to laugh at things like being goaded like that. Do you know what I mean?

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