RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment ***

RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment *** (Full Version)

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EdBowie -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 4:55:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro First of all a bull whip is not made of cord, I know a person who makes bull whips and that not how it is made. You are sighting a single incident so I fail to see justification for guns, also you have a lot of assumptions. Perhaps you are confused between religion and movie Zardoz?[;)] Did you really just post that on a BDSM website?

lovmuffin -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 9:29:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Who is we ? You guys already pretty much disgarded whatever rights you had to own firearms. You don't see us pushing the British to arm themselves. What's the big concern in disarming us ? We Brits just like looking down our noses at you and oppressing you, LM. That's what it's about. I hope that helps. [:)] I didn't know. We over here really love you guys, ya know like we speak the same language, share a common history and all that. We feel bad that the government confiscated most of your registered firearms. That's why I'm proposing we start shipping over some firepower. Then we can be equal again. [8D] ARM THE BRITISH!!!!!!!!!!

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 10:09:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Who is we ? You guys already pretty much disgarded whatever rights you had to own firearms. You don't see us pushing the British to arm themselves. What's the big concern in disarming us ? We Brits just like looking down our noses at you and oppressing you, LM. That's what it's about. I hope that helps. [:)] I didn't know. We over here really love you guys, ya know like we speak the same language, share a common history and all that. We feel bad that the government confiscated most of your registered firearms. That's why I'm proposing we start shipping over some firepower. Then we can be equal again. [8D] ARM THE BRITISH!!!!!!!!!! Firstly, we don't speak the same language. You speak American, we speak English. You bastardised the English language, changed all sorts of spellings (probably because the early settlers could barely read or write so they spelled as it sounded), changed the meanings of many words, and introduced new words for identical items (hood-bonnet, trunk-boot, faucet-tap etc). Secondly, most of us Brits don't want firearms! By having virtually all firearms abolished from our streets, Britain is a far safer place than the US. Sure, many still have them for target practice, some hunting etc; so they aren't banned. But.... like Australia, firearms in the streets are illegal and we can walk about safely for the most part. And before someone pipes up about knives - a knife-wielding villain can be taken down a shit-load easier than a gun-wielding one. Did you hear on the news only last night?? A greek man said he was fed up with the guns and violence and wants to leave Greece to come to Britain where it's far safer for him and his family to live. Even he has seen that our strict gun controls work. We'll just sit back and watch you slowly destroy or injure each other on a regular basis until the penny drops. ETA: We might have felt bad at the time when they outlawed guns in the streets. But now, we see the huge benefits. Maybe you should take heed and do the same?? Naaaa.... you won't give up your precious guns until your family are wiped out by them.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 10:31:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Who is we ? You guys already pretty much disgarded whatever rights you had to own firearms. You don't see us pushing the British to arm themselves. What's the big concern in disarming us ? We Brits just like looking down our noses at you and oppressing you, LM. That's what it's about. I hope that helps. [:)] I didn't know. We over here really love you guys, ya know like we speak the same language, share a common history and all that. We feel bad that the government confiscated most of your registered firearms. That's why I'm proposing we start shipping over some firepower. Then we can be equal again. [8D] ARM THE BRITISH!!!!!!!!!! Firstly, we don't speak the same language. You speak American, we speak English. You bastardised the English language, changed all sorts of spellings (probably because the early settlers could barely read or write so they spelled as it sounded), changed the meanings of many words, and introduced new words for identical items (hood-bonnet, trunk-boot, faucet-tap etc). Secondly, most of us Brits don't want firearms! By having virtually all firearms abolished from our streets, Britain is a far safer place than the US. Sure, many still have them for target practice, some hunting etc; so they aren't banned. But.... like Australia, firearms in the streets are illegal and we can walk about safely for the most part. And before someone pipes up about knives - a knife-wielding villain can be taken down a shit-load easier than a gun-wielding one. Did you hear on the news only last night?? A greek man said he was fed up with the guns and violence and wants to leave Greece to come to Britain where it's far safer for him and his family to live. Even he has seen that our strict gun controls work. We'll just sit back and watch you slowly destroy or injure each other on a regular basis until the penny drops. ETA: We might have felt bad at the time when they outlawed guns in the streets. But now, we see the huge benefits. Maybe you should take heed and do the same?? Naaaa.... you won't give up your precious guns until your family are wiped out by them. First you have to know that Lovemuffins comments were made in jest. When I think of arming the English I am reminded of the scene where a Scotland Yard detective (after the ambush and murder of several other Scotland Yard detectives) was seen on TV with a cocked Webely stuck in the front of his pants. Second I don't believe in telling you what your laws are, not my problem and by extension not my business. Just wish you guys would display the same level of decorum.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 10:38:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD First you have to know that Lovemuffins comments were made in jest. Second I don't believe in telling you what your laws are, not my problem and by extension not my business. Just wish you guys would display the same level of decorum. I don't tell you what your laws are either. All I'm saying, jest or not, that we actually don't speak the same language and by not staying with your example in the US we have made the UK a far safer place to live in and to visit. And considering that, like us, you have a large tourist industry, it becomes a global concern to everyone.

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 10:41:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD First you have to know that Lovemuffins comments were made in jest. Second I don't believe in telling you what your laws are, not my problem and by extension not my business. Just wish you guys would display the same level of decorum. I don't tell you what your laws are either. All I'm saying, jest or not, that we actually don't speak the same language and by not staying with your example in the US we have made the UK a far safer place to live in and to visit. And considering that, like us, you have a large tourist industry, it becomes a global concern to everyone. Just to demonstrate that I do understand British , bugger off.

lovmuffin -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 10:59:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Who is we ? You guys already pretty much disgarded whatever rights you had to own firearms. You don't see us pushing the British to arm themselves. What's the big concern in disarming us ? We Brits just like looking down our noses at you and oppressing you, LM. That's what it's about. I hope that helps. [:)] I didn't know. We over here really love you guys, ya know like we speak the same language, share a common history and all that. We feel bad that the government confiscated most of your registered firearms. That's why I'm proposing we start shipping over some firepower. Then we can be equal again. [8D] ARM THE BRITISH!!!!!!!!!! Firstly, we don't speak the same language. You speak American, we speak English. You bastardised the English language, changed all sorts of spellings (probably because the early settlers could barely read or write so they spelled as it sounded), changed the meanings of many words, and introduced new words for identical items (hood-bonnet, trunk-boot, faucet-tap etc). Secondly, most of us Brits don't want firearms! By having virtually all firearms abolished from our streets, Britain is a far safer place than the US. Sure, many still have them for target practice, some hunting etc; so they aren't banned. But.... like Australia, firearms in the streets are illegal and we can walk about safely for the most part. And before someone pipes up about knives - a knife-wielding villain can be taken down a shit-load easier than a gun-wielding one. Did you hear on the news only last night?? A greek man said he was fed up with the guns and violence and wants to leave Greece to come to Britain where it's far safer for him and his family to live. Even he has seen that our strict gun controls work. We'll just sit back and watch you slowly destroy or injure each other on a regular basis until the penny drops. ETA: We might have felt bad at the time when they outlawed guns in the streets. But now, we see the huge benefits. Maybe you should take heed and do the same?? Naaaa.... you won't give up your precious guns until your family are wiped out by them. The thing is, over here the gun availability ship sailed many many years ago. We have wide open spaces and lots of land in between for hunting and fishing. We have always had a significant segment of our population who use firearms in a safe and legal manor. It's a large enough segment to peclude the do gooders (American speak) from enacting draconian laws similar to what you now have. It's just that it would be repugnant to take away firearms from millions of the law abiding because of a tiny percentage of dirtbags who misuse them. We do have somewhat of a problem though I think you exaggerate. I highly doubt we're going to wipe each other out. My perception is, and I've mentioned this before, because of the extreemly high percentage of gun owners, should we ever enact some kind if draconian gun ban, the black market would ulimately take over the supply line much like black market drugs. Keep in mind also, there are so many firearms, unregistered, in private hands that it would take at least a hundred years and a police state to get them all.

lovmuffin -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 12:36:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 And considering that, like us, you have a large tourist industry, it becomes a global concern to everyone. Don't concern yourself over that. Despite much of the hyperbole on this thread and others, its quite safe to tour in the US. You just need a little bit of common sense like stay out of gang infested neighborhoods, don't take short cuts through dark allies at night and stay out of one room redneck bars with pool tables.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 12:58:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 And considering that, like us, you have a large tourist industry, it becomes a global concern to everyone. Don't concern yourself over that. Despite much of the hyperbole on this thread and others, its quite safe to tour in the US. You just need a little bit of common sense like stay out of gang infested neighborhoods, don't take short cuts through dark allies at night and stay out of one room redneck bars with pool tables. And, because of our laws, we have very few 'gang infested' neighbourhoods. I'm not saying we don't have them - just far fewer per capita than in the US. And of course, even fewer of them posess guns with which to threaten people with. Personally, after living in the US for 8 months and seeing more guns than I wish to, I have no intention of ever going back there again - not even for a vacation in Disneyland. The food ain't bad, it's dirt cheap (by comparison to here), most of the people were Ok too. But, I value my life and my family more than risk anyone getting shot or severely injured. I certainly don't consider it safe to go visiting/touring - especially in latter years.

lovmuffin -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 1:38:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 And, because of our laws, we have very few 'gang infested' neighbourhoods. I'm not saying we don't have them - just far fewer per capita than in the US. And of course, even fewer of them posess guns with which to threaten people with. I highly doubt the reason you have fewer gang infested neighborhoods is just because of your gun laws. It's more likely because the gangs don't think they really need them among other reasons but I'd be willing to bet that many have them and others could get them for a price. quote: I have no intention of ever going back there again - not even for a vacation in Disneyland.......... .......I certainly don't consider it safe to go visiting/touring - Not even to Disneyland ?? We don't have gang bangers running around armed in Disneyland. [8D] I think once again you are exaggerating the situation.

PeonForHer -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 3:25:08 PM)
LM, Our 'gang infested' neighbourhoods are typified by little areas in the big cities where you might get mugged at knifepoint. That's it. That's all it is. I've heard of Londoners going to New York or Los Angeles who compare the experience to that of a country yokel in Britain moving to the big city. It seems to me that American city-dwellers, particularly, live in a state of terror that no-one outside of the USA really understands. Americans, in general, seem to have no idea of how savage their country looks to outsiders. You see how few non-Americans have involved themselves in this thread - and how half-hearted (including me) they've been if they've said anything at all? This is because, I'd guess, we just don't understand how you could possibly want to organise a society the way you do. It looks alien to us. Perverted, actually. The average American view of guns looks nothing short of disgusting to most members of most First World countries. I mean that.

KYsissy -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 3:51:41 PM)
quote: heard of Londoners going to New York or Los Angeles who compare the experience to that of a country yokel in Britain moving to the big city. It seems to me that American city-dwellers, particularly, live in a state of terror that no-one outside of the USA really understands. Americans, in general, seem to have no idea of how savage their country looks to outsiders. That sounds like a paranoid tale. I grew up in Chicago. There were always news stories of gunplay, and there still is. While i lived there i never saw a gun on the street. And the few times i heard gunfire was on the fourth of july. Im sure in certain neighborhoods it was more common, but i stayed away from those areas. I liken it as to going to any city, anywhere in the world. There are just certain areas you do not go to, unless you are looking for trouble. Now that i have moved to the country, i have seen far far many more weapons than i could have dreamed of in my big city days. I would say all of my neighbors have at least one firearm, some have several. Some have a small arsenal. The ones with small arsenals are all ex military. But then again I live in an area where going into your backyard and shooting off a few hundred rounds is common. I hear gunfire all the time.

lovmuffin -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 4:58:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer LM, Our 'gang infested' neighbourhoods are typified by little areas in the big cities where you might get mugged at knifepoint. That's it. That's all it is. I've heard of Londoners going to New York or Los Angeles who compare the experience to that of a country yokel in Britain moving to the big city. It seems to me that American city-dwellers, particularly, live in a state of terror that no-one outside of the USA really understands. Americans, in general, seem to have no idea of how savage their country looks to outsiders. You see how few non-Americans have involved themselves in this thread - and how half-hearted (including me) they've been if they've said anything at all? This is because, I'd guess, we just don't understand how you could possibly want to organise a society the way you do. It looks alien to us. Perverted, actually. The average American view of guns looks nothing short of disgusting to most members of most First World countries. I mean that. I think your perception of the average American view of guns is distorted as is the same distortion American liberals seem to have. Most of us who own guns are safe and responsible with them. There was a point in time when I was a kid that we didn't have the magnitude of gang problems like you see now. I said before we have wide open spaces and we are dotted In between with urban sprawl and all the shit holes that come with it throughout most of the fifty states. Since I was young I've seen our society slowly degenerate from Andy of Mayberry to what we have now. We didn't have mass murder school shootings. We even took our guns to school so we could go directly to our hunting spots and have an extra hour of daylight. There are many reasons our society has degenerated to such an extent but its complex and I don't have all the answers to the problem. We had as many or more firearms per capita back then as we do now. Passing a bunch of gun control laws / bans or whatever is not going to be as simple as it was over there. At the most it would tend to disarm lawful folks and ya still have to get the guns from the assholes causing all the problems. The assholes aren't just going to turn them in. It's not likely that most of the lawful folks will turn them in either. So what do ya do ?? When I said we share, let's say, a language similar enough to understand each other, and a common history, and I'm not referring just to back in the day of King George but back to the glory days of Rome and the Barbarians and all those guys too, I find it somewhat distressing that our brothers in the UK would see gun owners and their culture as perverted or disgusting.

PeonForHer -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 5:25:31 PM)
quote: I hear gunfire all the time. I've never heard a gunshot in my entire life.

TheHeretic -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 5:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I've never heard a gunshot in my entire life. So, with that base of knowledge, why do you presume to speak as if you know what you are talking about to people who sometimes need to make them happen? Have you ever had a four foot long rattlesnake take an attitude with you on your front porch? Gone out at 1:00 a.m. to deal with a speed freak who set off the alarm at a friend's business? Provided meat for your family that didn't come from a store? Guns aren't part of your life or culture. Fine. What qualifies you though, to pass judgement on people whose lives and culture are different from your own?

BamaD -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 7:08:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I've never heard a gunshot in my entire life. So, with that base of knowledge, why do you presume to speak as if you know what you are talking about to people who sometimes need to make them happen? Have you ever had a four foot long rattlesnake take an attitude with you on your front porch? Gone out at 1:00 a.m. to deal with a speed freak who set off the alarm at a friend's business? Provided meat for your family that didn't come from a store? Guns aren't part of your life or culture. Fine. What qualifies you though, to pass judgement on people whose lives and culture are different from your own? They are European and thus culturally superior.

PeonForHer -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 7:11:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic What qualifies you though, to pass judgement on people whose lives and culture are different from your own? I did. I qualified me to pass judgment, Rich. I hope that helps. ETA: OK, to be a bit more serious: everyone makes judgments about foreign countries and they way they do things. Or at least, they will say whether they like them or not. Also: there's one advantage of perspective in being immersed in a culture; there's another advantage of perspective in seeing that culture from a distance. So, me, I don't trash what people abroad say about the UK. I might well take it with a pinch of salt, but I'll take it in.

PeonForHer -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 7:14:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD They are European and thus culturally superior. It cracks me up that certain Yanks think that if they say things like that often enough and loudly enough, we Europeans will end up actually feeling guilty about how we treat Americans [:D]

TheHeretic -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 7:25:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I did. I qualified me to pass judgment, Rich. I hope that helps. Helps? No. Explains? Absolutely. I notice you weren't willing to address any of the other questions, Peon. Shall we just check off, "no," for each, and add that in addition to never having heard a gunshot, encountering situations where the sounds of gunshots, or the simple presence of a firearm might be completely appropriate?

Kirata -> RE: *Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to 2nd Amendment * (10/3/2013 7:27:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I did. I qualified me to pass judgment, Rich. I hope that helps. Being condescenting is one thing, being ignorant is another, but it is inadvisable to be both, and worse to be proud of it. K.

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