Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance!


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! Page: <<   < prev  11 12 13 [14] 15   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 6:25:19 AM   
MyGarage


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Actually,

Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to:
I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs.
I object to you making medical choices for me. I'm fine with programs that try to help the poor.
I object (strenuously) to deliberate lies like "if you like your health care you can keep it."




Thank you.

Edit: Uh, except programs that "try to help the poor." Let the poor help themselves, damn it. All that does is make more poor people. Heartless.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 261
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 6:31:15 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:


Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to:
I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs.

But conservatives have actually stolen from their children, and not paid for their generations programs, which is what real conservatives object to.  Borrow and spend, borrow and spend.


And, in case you haven't been reading a lot of posts from Conservatives, many of us aren't exactly supportive of the spending actions of the GOP, either.





I have not seen any actual conservatives posting on this board, with the exception of a guy who no longer posts here, and myself.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 262
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 6:48:47 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

tweakabelle
Generally, right wing ideology hates the idea of collective action by people at the bottom of the pile. Consumers' interests can be seen as another market force, and a universal health scheme can be seen as 'enlightened self interest' by one actor in the healthcare marketplace. The comparison of a universal health scheme to "children liking free ice cream" could't be more inaccurate.


Question: Is the Australian health care system set up like the UK's NHS (with government owned/run hospitals and some private hospitals; private insurance for things that people are willing to pay extra for [less waiting, etc.])? If not, how is it different?

Conservatives don't hate collective action. Conservatives prefer collective action be individually chosen, rather than government forced.

There is a parallel private health system in operation here for those who prefer to organise their own healthcare.

While I understand the distinction you are drawing about collective action, the history of right wing attempts to impose constraints on trade unions doesn't exactly support your claim does it?

Conservatives might like some collective action but only when they are doing the acting. When the have-nots exercise collective action, it's quite a different story.

_____________________________



(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 263
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 6:50:21 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyGarage
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Actually,
Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to:
I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs.
I object to you making medical choices for me. I'm fine with programs that try to help the poor.
I object (strenuously) to deliberate lies like "if you like your health care you can keep it."

Thank you.
Edit: Uh, except programs that "try to help the poor." Let the poor help themselves, damn it. All that does is make more poor people. Heartless.


There are times, MG, when the poor are unable to help themselves. In those cases, it is good to help the poor (though I'd much rather a charity do so than government, but that's my own personal belief).


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MyGarage)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 6:51:49 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to:
I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs.

But conservatives have actually stolen from their children, and not paid for their generations programs, which is what real conservatives object to.  Borrow and spend, borrow and spend.

And, in case you haven't been reading a lot of posts from Conservatives, many of us aren't exactly supportive of the spending actions of the GOP, either.

I have not seen any actual conservatives posting on this board, with the exception of a guy who no longer posts here, and myself.


It seems to me that your definition of "conservative" may be lacking, MN.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 265
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 6:55:20 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		The reason why the UK and Canada got a healthcare system that worked is because CHARITY didnt.
Pesky poor people are a drain, pesky poor sick people dont have charities to help.
IF you ever worked for one, you would know that the need, triples the ability to function, even with healthcare.
Thats why charities exist these days, in most countries. With AND without healthcare

PS MyGarage, thankyou for your.... erm...input:) you made my monday

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 6:57:08 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

Conservatives prefer collective action be individually chosen, rather than government forced

Yeah cos thats working SO well
Where????

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:05:03 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

tweakabelle
Generally, right wing ideology hates the idea of collective action by people at the bottom of the pile. Consumers' interests can be seen as another market force, and a universal health scheme can be seen as 'enlightened self interest' by one actor in the healthcare marketplace. The comparison of a universal health scheme to "children liking free ice cream" could't be more inaccurate.

Question: Is the Australian health care system set up like the UK's NHS (with government owned/run hospitals and some private hospitals; private insurance for things that people are willing to pay extra for [less waiting, etc.])? If not, how is it different?
Conservatives don't hate collective action. Conservatives prefer collective action be individually chosen, rather than government forced.

While I understand the distinction you are drawing about collective action, the history of right wing attempts to impose constraints on trade unions doesn't exactly support your claim does it?
Conservatives might like some collective action but only when they are doing the acting. When the have-nots exercise collective action, it's quite a different story.


What constraints on trade unions are you talking about?

That workers can't be compelled to join a Union to work at a shop? That constraint? Right to work legislation doesn't prevent anyone from joining a Union, nor does it prevent a Union from negotiating with an employer (some legislation does make some things non-negotiable, but the right to negotiate is still there). The whole point of right-to-work is to prevent compelled Union membership (you know, "forced" rather than chosen membership).

quote:

There is a parallel private health system in operation here for those who prefer to organise their own healthcare.


Is the system, as a whole, similar to the NHS, though? From what I've gathered on this board, is that the NHS system is much larger than the private system. Is that the same in Australia?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:06:29 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
quote:

Conservatives prefer collective action be individually chosen, rather than government forced

Yeah cos thats working SO well
Where????


Do you agree or disagree with my assertion?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:09:13 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		you dont wanna know ....seriously.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:18:55 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
you dont wanna know ....seriously.


I wouldn't have asked, Lucy. Seriously.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:25:20 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		There are enough jokes posting today, DS< I will just say I disagree with your assertion, but agree thats what conservatives, like to "Think" that is what they believe.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:27:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
There are enough jokes posting today, DS< I will just say I disagree with your assertion, but agree thats what conservatives, like to "Think" that is what they believe.


Was that really that difficult, Lucy?

The rest of your statement only points out that there are fewer actual conservatives than those who claim they are conservatives.
That, not surprisingly enough, is a claim we agree on.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 273
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:40:34 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

Not that you're really interested in what conservatives are actually objecting to:
I object to is stealing from our children to pay for my generation's programs.

But conservatives have actually stolen from their children, and not paid for their generations programs, which is what real conservatives object to.  Borrow and spend, borrow and spend.

And, in case you haven't been reading a lot of posts from Conservatives, many of us aren't exactly supportive of the spending actions of the GOP, either.

I have not seen any actual conservatives posting on this board, with the exception of a guy who no longer posts here, and myself.


It seems to me that your definition of "conservative" may be lacking, MN.



In what respect? Because current horseshit is not in anywise conservative, does not hold to tradition or cautious changes.

If you are a conservative, you are a conservative at the founding of conservatism, not some horseshit dreamed up by St. Wrinklemeat apologists and down the line.  Or by the plethora of knaves that vend, and fools that gulp non-traditional conservatism by blogging mendacity and outright hallucinations, found in the likes of Brietbart, Boortz, ZeroHedge, WND, Faux, DailyCaller, DailyMail, Examiner, and so on.

Simple, Mitch McConnell, holds up by Americans for 3bill in pork.  Conservative?  and so on.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/4/2013 7:46:31 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:46:22 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		you dont know how hard I had to bite my fingertips not to type more.
so yeah, it was hard...


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:50:26 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
you dont wanna know ....seriously.


I wouldn't have asked, Lucy. Seriously.


Some reading for you Desi - http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/10/3/129.full.pdf

The systems are very similar both here and in Australia (and apparently in Canada too).
I think Australia has a few more private hospitals per capita than we do but the mechanisms for restricting reimbursments and keeping costs down (AKA state/government remuneration limits) are almost the same in both countries.
Although a lot of the data is old, the pricipals behind the way it all works isn't.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 7:54:57 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
you dont know how hard I had to bite my fingertips not to type more.
so yeah, it was hard...


Anything more you had typed, though, wouldn't have answered the question.

But, feel free to get whatever off your chest. I do so enjoy a good discussion.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 8:00:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
you dont wanna know ....seriously.

I wouldn't have asked, Lucy. Seriously.

Some reading for you Desi - http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/10/3/129.full.pdf
The systems are very similar both here and in Australia (and apparently in Canada too).
I think Australia has a few more private hospitals per capita than we do but the mechanisms for restricting reimbursments and keeping costs down (AKA state/government remuneration limits) are almost the same in both countries.
Although a lot of the data is old, the pricipals behind the way it all works isn't.


I'm not sure why you made this a response to the post you did, as it didn't follow.

Either way, thanks for the addition to my reading list. I'm really going to have to sit down and shorten that list some time (by reading the items). I think I'm up to 6 or 7 now. Weekends, especially ones when I have my boys, are not conducive to keeping up with that stuff. lol


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 278
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 8:04:54 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I'm not sure why you made this a response to the post you did, as it didn't follow.

I thought you asked if/how the Australian system is different from the UK one?

My bad. lol.
Considering our earlier and other thread discussions on the subject, it's a worthwhile read.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 11/4/2013 8:05:18 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		DS, I generally have anywhere between 5-10 books going at one time.   I read before I sleep a great deal.  It is a never ending battle, I hear ya.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 280
Page:   <<   < prev  11 12 13 [14] 15   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insurance! Page: <<   < prev  11 12 13 [14] 15   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.141