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RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/3/2013 1:32:26 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
.When Sharia is applied correctly it becomes fully compatible with the modern human rights framework.....


Only if you warp the concept of a human rights framework far beyond what most westerners concede.

Westerners do not believe that women are worth 1/2 a man for inheritance. Or for bearing testimony in a legal dispute.

Most westerners do not believe that women's ability to dress, drive, hold employment should be restricted and then under the permission of the oldest male relative.

Most westerners do not believe that being a non-believer is punishable by death, nor renouncing the muslim faith.

Most westerners do not believe impugning the name or the image of the Prophet is punishable by death.

Yea - so what you said about sharia law being perfectly compatable with modern human rights frameworks, is, ya know, .. false.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/3/2013 1:35:50 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


Phydeauxs on a mission to God! Good luck with that but please, please, please try and put your anger to one side. Its so, well, unchristian


I'm not in the least angry.

As for being anger being unchristian, again you have an incorrect view of Christianity.
It is not unchristian to be angry, sad, happy, disconsolate, ebullient.

For example - Christ was angry when he drove the moneylenders from the temple, saying "Zeal for your house consumes me...".

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/3/2013 1:43:38 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Nobody can deny that in these modern times, Muslims have suffered far too much foreign domination.



Certainly, I can and do.

I certainly wouldn't deny that Muslims have suffered foreign domination. I empathize.

The issue is the concept of "too much". It implies that there is a standard, that everyone implicitly recognizes. This much domination is fine - but that much is a shade too much.

In this world - there is no such things as "deserve". Rather, nations get as much peace, respect and dignity as their economy, and military and other institutions afford them.


(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/3/2013 3:03:58 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
.When Sharia is applied correctly it becomes fully compatible with the modern human rights framework.....


Only if you warp the concept of a human rights framework far beyond what most westerners concede.

Ah ok but then that would be similar to Christians. I mean, how many Christian denominations are there ? and how many of those denominations disagree about which groups can be properly called Christian?

quote:


Westerners do not believe that women are worth 1/2 a man for inheritance. Or for bearing testimony in a legal dispute.

Well the extremist Muslim westerners do and yep, we have a huge amount of Muslims who are Westerners through birth.
quote:


Most westerners do not believe that women's ability to dress, drive, hold employment should be restricted and then under the permission of the oldest male relative.
Neither do most Muslims

quote:


Most westerners do not believe that being a non-believer is punishable by death, nor renouncing the muslim faith.

Most westerners do not believe impugning the name or the image of the Prophet is punishable by death.

Yea - so what you said about sharia law being perfectly compatable with modern human rights frameworks, is, ya know, .. false.


Neither do most Muslims. Many Muslims drink smoke and gamble too or does that make them none Muslims? Just as some Christians take some of the faith, so do many Muslims or are they in your opinion not real Christians and not real Muslims.


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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/3/2013 3:11:09 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Nobody can deny that in these modern times, Muslims have suffered far too much foreign domination.



Certainly, I can and do.

I certainly wouldn't deny that Muslims have suffered foreign domination. I empathize.

The issue is the concept of "too much". It implies that there is a standard, that everyone implicitly recognizes. This much domination is fine - but that much is a shade too much.

In this world - there is no such things as "deserve". Rather, nations get as much peace, respect and dignity as their economy, and military and other institutions afford them.




I agree with you about the radical extremists and I include Iran, Syria, SA and a few others in that category. The thing is though, they are not the main representatives of Islam, Shia only makes up a very small percentage of the Muslims in the world or at least until recently. Even now though, Sunni still represents 90% of the Muslim world population.


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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/3/2013 4:41:35 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Nobody can deny that in these modern times, Muslims have suffered far too much foreign domination.



Certainly, I can and do.

I certainly wouldn't deny that Muslims have suffered foreign domination. I empathize.

The issue is the concept of "too much". It implies that there is a standard, that everyone implicitly recognizes. This much domination is fine - but that much is a shade too much.

In this world - there is no such things as "deserve". Rather, nations get as much peace, respect and dignity as their economy, and military and other institutions afford them.




I agree with you about the radical extremists and I include Iran, Syria, SA and a few others in that category. The thing is though, they are not the main representatives of Islam, Shia only makes up a very small percentage of the Muslims in the world or at least until recently. Even now though, Sunni still represents 90% of the Muslim world population.


Even all Shia are not extremist crazies. I have friends who are Shia, Ismaili technically. They have a nice worship and community center not too far from where I live.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/3/2013 6:22:01 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		No of course they aren't Ken and I'm sorry if that's how I came across. Shia's that live in Britain for example do one of two things. They either hide away their daughters and marry them off to some distant Pakistani man before they turn 16 or they compromise and learn to fit in with the British culture, which many of course do.

Radical extremists are people who stick to the verses of the Quran and the words of the Iman like it was the air that they breath and because the Quran is versed in a way that makes all females second class citizens, for those more radical amongst us, they will agree to honour killings, they will marry their daughter to a relative when she's under age and they will often forbid her from having any formal education.

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/3/2013 8:53:25 AM   
cloudboy


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Not much seeps in when you respond to him. I've never seen him acknowledge respect for anyone who knows more than him about a given subject.

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/4/2013 1:56:45 PM   
thompsonx


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As for the rest I don't have time for a point by point refutation.

Or the ability it would seem.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/4/2013 1:58:15 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		In this world - there is no such things as "deserve".

So we have no rights because as you say there is no such thing as deserve.


Rather, nations get as much peace, respect and dignity as their economy, and military and other institutions afford them.

Respect and dignity are a function of a countries military power?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/6/2013 6:16:17 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Many Muslims drink smoke and gamble too or does that make them none Muslims?


Well, it makes them non-Muslims according to the tenets of Islam.

Do not confuse the cultural with the religious.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/6/2013 7:51:13 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Many Muslims drink smoke and gamble too or does that make them none Muslims?


Well, it makes them non-Muslims according to the tenets of Islam.

Do not confuse the cultural with the religious.

No it does not. All Islam requires is the five pillars. None say anything about drinking or smoking.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/7/2013 7:39:57 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
.When Sharia is applied correctly it becomes fully compatible with the modern human rights framework.....


Only if you warp the concept of a human rights framework far beyond what most westerners concede.

Ah ok but then that would be similar to Christians. I mean, how many Christian denominations are there ? and how many of those denominations disagree about which groups can be properly called Christian?



I have no clue how many actual denomination there are but I do know that none of the ones I have attended ever mentioned other groups like that. They never got together to discuss other churches and whether or not they were really christian. The one I currently go to not only doesn't have a problem with different beliefs, they offered their church to another church who had lost their building. They needed a place until their new one was built and we let them use ours for about 5 years. There were no problems with the difference in beliefs and everyone got along fine. Now we did have one lady who complained about the incense but she was having sinus problems so I have to give her a pass. Other than that no worries, just people getting along. No one questioning anything.

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(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Another outrage from the R of P - 11/8/2013 2:03:33 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		You weren't challenged to find a list of violence in the bible. You were challenged to back up your statement that Islam and Christianity are morally equivalent.


Pointing out violence of christians points to the moral equivilancy of christians and muslims as to the level of violence expected from them

I made the assertion that the teachings of Christ (as expounded in the new testament) could not be any farther from the teachings of Mohammed.

Well to seperate the bible into the parts that you like and not the parts you do not like is not somehting you get to do. The bible , the old and new testamnt are part of the bible.


I have provided hundreds of instances where muslims are instructed to slay the infidels in their sleep. To terrorize them. Others where lying and cheating non-muslims are not only OK but encouraged - in the words of Mohammed himself.

Since both of these punkassmotherfuckers were illiterate they never said shit that is actually validatable.

All I've asked you to do is to provide one instance where Christ told his followers to terrorize, murder, flay, castrate.

You can't do it, because it doesn't exist.

Most educated folks know that there were more than just 4 gosples. To deny what they say or their existance is less than honest.
You are not allowed to cherry pick the bible. Take it in it's entirety or not at all just as you do the koran.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 154
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