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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 8:38:28 AM

KnightofMists

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A serious issue. Obviously lots of advice. But where is the OP?

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 9:20:30 AM

TigressLily

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OP, I do want to ask was this an LD relationship or IRT? Your ex-sub's proximity to you does make a big difference, and how long were you together, if I may inquire out of curiosity?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

Being someone's sub/slave can create a VERY POWERFUL connection. It can almost be like a form of co-dependence. It can be much stronger than a typical vanilla relationship.
<snip>
I'm not trying to justify your former sub's behavior. There's no excuse for it.
<snip>
I can admit that there is a former Domme that I still think about and would immediately fall back into total servitude to if given the opportunity. And I haven't been with her for over a decade. But the bond that we had was that strong (at least for me).

(Disappointedly crosses Roch off list.)

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 9:57:01 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
I'd have to disagree with this. Please read my previous post to understand where I'm coming from here.

Yes, his behavior does seem very selfish. But think about it from the sub's perspective. The very fact that he DOES care about her makes it hard for him to let go.

When you've become used to obeying every command that a Dom/Domme gives you, the one command that can be very difficult to obey is the command to "leave and don't come back".

We'll have to agree to disagree. There's a difference between 'hard to let go' and acting in ways that become stalking/harassing behavior. If that person's happiness was paramount to your (general your) life, that is what a person has to accept. Feelings are not facts and they certainly don't override a person's basic human right to remove people from their life that make them unhappy.

quote:

Their happiness becomes more important than your own. Their needs become more important than your own. Their priorities become more important than your own.

If that's *really* the case, wouldn't that mean the sub would be willing to exit the D-type's life, based on the fact that the D-type would be happier without the sub than with them?

quote:

Moreover, if a person was able to inspire that level of submission, they are probably a pretty remarkable individual (at least in the eyes of the person who chose to submit to them). So that puts them on an even higher pedestal.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard this over the course of several months. I know people think they are being nice when they are saying it and it's intended to be a compliment. Doesn't really help though because it also implies that you should have had enough control over them that they should respect you as a human being after the dynamic is over. After all, if any other human being on the planet said to that person, "leave Me alone," they would most likely comply. Yet, they won't do it in your case.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 10:07:17 AM

anaturalsubmiss

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Even puppy love is an addiction.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 10:10:45 AM

Rochsub2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TigressLily

OP, I do want to ask was this an LD relationship or IRT? Your ex-sub's proximity to you does make a big difference, and how long were you together, if I may inquire out of curiosity?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

Being someone's sub/slave can create a VERY POWERFUL connection. It can almost be like a form of co-dependence. It can be much stronger than a typical vanilla relationship.
<snip>
I'm not trying to justify your former sub's behavior. There's no excuse for it.
<snip>
I can admit that there is a former Domme that I still think about and would immediately fall back into total servitude to if given the opportunity. And I haven't been with her for over a decade. But the bond that we had was that strong (at least for me).

(Disappointedly crosses Roch off list.)

It probably does sound kinda creepy. But I was just sharing a moment of transparency to help illuminate how deep D/s bonds can be, and how difficult they can be to break.

I'm sure that if many (most?) people were honest, they'd admit that there is probably someone from their past who could successfully charm their way into a "booty call" if they really tried.

So tell me, which one of your ex-boyfriends could convince you to break your "no blowjobs" rule? I won't tell anyone. It will just be our secret.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 10:19:37 AM

Rochsub2009

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LadyPact,
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that this person is right for failing to leave her alone. I started my first post by saying that she should do everything in her power to make sure she's safe (including getting a restraining order if possible).

But everyone was so focused on how terrible the guy was being, and some were even going as far as suggesting physically hurting the guy, so I just wanted to look at the other side of the equation. I tried to show that there is a high level of vulnerability on the side of the dumped sub. Haven't any of you ever behaved in ways that you're not proud of after a particularly difficult breakup?

Like I said, I wasn't trying to say that he was right. I just wanted to add a bit more complexity to what some were callously treating as a simple case of a crazy stalker guy. It may or may not be that. But many very normal people have found themselves acting in not-so-normal ways immediately after a breakup.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 10:22:59 AM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

What he's doing is wrong, and you should certainly do whatever is necessary to keep yourself safe. But having said that, I'd like to share a slightly different perspective on this.

Being someone's sub/slave can create a VERY POWERFUL connection. It can almost be like a form of co-dependence. It can be much stronger than a typical vanilla relationship.

Imagine placing someone else's desires ahead of your own. Their happiness becomes more important than your own. Their needs become more important than your own. Their priorities become more important than your own. Regardless of what you're doing, you drop it when they call and then their task becomes your focus. Even if it's 3:00am, if Master/Mistress calls and says "Go to the store and get me some ice cream", that's exactly what you do. The fact that you're sleepy is irrelevant. The fact that it's weird to want ice cream at 3:00 in the morning is irrelevant. All that matters is doing what is necessary to please your Master/Mistress.

Now imagine that after operating in that fashion for months or even years, your Master/Mistress decides to end the relationship. The person who has been your primary focus suddenly doesn't want you anymore.

The problem is that their well-being has replaced your own in many ways. Their happiness has become the source of your happiness. And now all of that is gone. You can feel lost and confused. It can feel like a part of you has been completely ripped out. And it can make you want to beg and plead for them to PLEASE let you serve them again.

I know that all D/s relationships aren't the same. Some are really only "play partner" relationships. But those relationships that have a deep and personal, loving, monogamous element to them can be very difficult to simply let go of. Moreover, if a person was able to inspire that level of submission, they are probably a pretty remarkable individual (at least in the eyes of the person who chose to submit to them). So that puts them on an even higher pedestal.

I'm not trying to justify your former sub's behavior. There's no excuse for it. But as a sub who has had a few breakups over the years, I just wanted to share my perspective on why the breakup is often far more difficult for the sub than the Dom/Domme. So some level of compassion and empathy is necessary. Particularly if you allowed this person to behave as if You are the most important person in the world. Suddenly removing the most important person in his/her world is not going to be easy for them to accept and/or deal with.

I can admit that there is a former Domme that I still think about and would immediately fall back into total servitude to if given the opportunity. And I haven't been with her for over a decade. But the bond that we had was that strong (at least for me).

I hear what you're saying about an s type feeling lost and confused when the focal point of their life is taken away, I can see where it might be more difficult for them to just move on when requested to do so. You suggest that some level of compassion and empathy is necessary…ok, but I think as far as actions, in a case like this the Dominant really has to cut things off. I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting by saying the Dominant should extend compassion towards the sub, but if it's trickling things down instead of just cutting things off I think that would not be good.

In the OP, this submissive in my opinion has gone beyond the normal grieving process into unhealthy territory, and if the Dominant in question extended her compassion towards the ex by allowing some contact, it would only exacerbate his suffering in the end.

I had a breakup with a long term D/s relationship. It was horrible, you're right, I lost my focal point. I drifted aimlessly for a while, it did feel worse than a 'regular' break up. After a good while of getting over it, I was on the way to actually being over it and he came back. I turned him down, but it set me back to the point that I'm not feeling as healthy now months longer than after the original breakup. I wish he'd stuck with his original plan and forgotten I'd ever existed, I'm still paying the price for his change of heart.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 10:39:37 AM

TigressLily

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You mean I have to set the record straight Rs?

Let me see . . .

1. No, the attachment part doesn't sound creepy in your case. In fact, it's rather romantic in a strange (Scorpion re myself) way.

2. Nope, nobody from my distant past remotely interests me. The sub I was with who had to move away, I tried not to get overly attached to because we both knew it couldn't turn into an LTR (but we were kind of infatuated with one another for a while, I have to admit.) Gee, I guess I'm the pot calling the kettle black.

3. I redlined that one statement of yours because I'm the type of person who doesn't want a partner wishfully thinking about another woman, whether she's in the past or any other BITCH.

(I get jealous easily.) By the same token, I wouldn't be thinking about someone else I'd want to go back with while I'm with my man.

4. As for the last part, does this clarify my position sufficiently?

(You're a male sub, and you're not supposed to be expecting that kind of action from your Domme!)

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 10:45:29 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
LadyPact,
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that this person is right for failing to leave her alone. I started my first post by saying that she should do everything in her power to make sure she's safe (including getting a restraining order if possible).

But everyone was so focused on how terrible the guy was being, and some were even going as far as suggesting physically hurting the guy, so I just wanted to look at the other side of the equation. I tried to show that there is a high level of vulnerability on the side of the dumped sub. Haven't any of you ever behaved in ways that you're not proud of after a particularly difficult breakup?

Like I said, I wasn't trying to say that he was right. I just wanted to add a bit more complexity to what some were callously treating as a simple case of a crazy stalker guy. It may or may not be that. But many very normal people have found themselves acting in not-so-normal ways immediately after a breakup.

Roch, you've got mail.

To answer your direct question here........ Truthfully, no. I've never even come close to 'restraining order' territory needing to be filed against Me. Nobody has had to block My phone number or My email address because they said don't contact anymore and I continued to do it.

Also, you might be projecting. I don't think the OP mentioned how long it's been since she asked the former sub to leave her alone. I don't know if "immediately" applies. Even on this thread, people have come forward to say that this stuff can go on for months or even years. There's no justification for that.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 10:56:29 AM

Spiritedsub2

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There are always two sides to such a story, and you are wise IMO to remind us of that. A family law judge I know who sat on the bench for 24 years was fond of saying "Snow White doesn't marry Attila the Hun". And I will chime in with others here who have expressed that a breakup from a sub point of view can be more painful than a vanilla breakup.

I don't know if the sub who is the subject of the OP is out of line; we haven't heard anything of his side of the tale.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 11:19:09 AM

Rochsub2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I've never even come close to 'restraining order' territory needing to be filed against Me. Nobody has had to block My phone number or My email address because they said don't contact anymore and I continued to do it.

Actually, neither have I. But I was trying to empathize with the guy, and show what things might look like from his point of view.

quote:

Also, you might be projecting. I don't think the OP mentioned how long it's been since she asked the former sub to leave her alone. I don't know if "immediately" applies. Even on this thread, people have come forward to say that this stuff can go on for months or even years. There's no justification for that.

You're right. She didn't specifically say how long it's been. If it has been months or years, then he really IS crazy stalker guy. But if it's only been a short time, then I can understand why he may be feeling a bit disoriented and having a difficult time letting go.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 11:51:43 AM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
There are always two sides to such a story, and you are wise IMO to remind us of that. A family law judge I know who sat on the bench for 24 years was fond of saying "Snow White doesn't marry Attila the Hun".

I like that quote, thank you. I'd like to add to it, though: "Sometime Snow Stupid marries Attila the Immature."

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 12:16:48 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

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Just out of curiosity, if the genders in the OP's dilemma were reversed, how many people would give the same advice they did on this thread? At the same time that I totally don't tolerate stalkerish behaviors & I know how it feels to be stalked, I also know I've seen people be harder on male s-types than female.

I do know, from when I was a sub, that when you're suddenly without your D-type, regardless of the reason, it can be tough. Sure, there's going to be some floating in limbo until you get your shit together. At first, that can almost be expected. But before months or years have passed, the person should be getting it together.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 12:23:48 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl
Just out of curiosity, if the genders in the OP's dilemma were reversed, how many people would give the same advice they did on this thread?

I would in a heartbeat.

In a way I feel sorry for anyone in this situation on both sides.
But... there really is no excuse for this sort of behaviour at all - from anyone.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 12:25:42 PM

Spiritedsub2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
There are always two sides to such a story, and you are wise IMO to remind us of that. A family law judge I know who sat on the bench for 24 years was fond of saying "Snow White doesn't marry Attila the Hun".

I like that quote, thank you. I'd like to add to it, though: "Sometime Snow Stupid marries Attila the Immature."

Thank goodness she does; I call it job security

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 12:28:59 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl
Just out of curiosity, if the genders in the OP's dilemma were reversed, how many people would give the same advice they did on this thread?

I don't know about the posters on this particular thread, but I'll speak to a gender-difference I've seen over time. If the dom is a man and the sub is a woman, it's much more expected for the dom to have an end-of-relationship plan, a way for the woman to be weaned off of slavery if things don't work out. It's always seemed to me that the difference comes from the expectation that a sub woman will be a stay-at-home sex/domestic slave, while the sub man will have an external source of income. So, economically, the male sub has a softer landing than the female sub, if the relationship ends.

To be honest, I'm not sure if this prejudice is true in real life. Even the statistics that show men make more than women are a bit controversial (in the US and UK, still no question women are economically inferior worldwide). In the US for example, more women are graduating universities than men, more women entering medical schools, etc. So an argument can be made that a lot of women's lower pay is through intentionally taking part-time jobs in order to spend more time with the kids, and not because employers' salaries are prejudiced against women. Female realtors close more sales than male realtors, so, in some employment areas, the job market is in a woman's favor. I'll stop here, because this isn't a Politics thread. But I do believe that long-term economic beliefs about men vs. women in the workplace strongly affect what people believe to be a male Master's responsibilities, as opposed to a female Master's responsibilities.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 12:41:46 PM

AthenaSurrenders

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I think I would give the same advice if it were the same question with genders reversed. I'm a big believer in a clear message and a clean break.

In any situation where one person has been completely dependent on the other financially there is some responsibility to give that person chance to get back on their feet. But without the OP coming back to clarify, I'm going with my gut on this and saying that this isn't the situation here.

(And if either party feels in danger, I'd advise them to cut all ties even if there is financial dependency, and let the lawyers sort out any obligations - though I don't know whether the OP feels unsafe or just frustrated)

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 12:42:58 PM

DesFIP

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I normally agree with Roch, he's both smart and gorgeous. In this case though, you don't go from blissful happiness on both sides to restraining order in a day, or even a week.

There has always been months of unhappiness before you get to this point. And normal people don't ignore all those conversations where the other person explains how things aren't working for them and stays in denial that they're still the perfect sub.

Yes, previously strong relationships are going to require healing from before you move on. On both sides. Which does not mean that becoming a stalker is ever the position of choice of a healthy human being. Which is why Roch never did anything like this. We understand the feelings, we don't understand the actions.

Look, I get annoyed with idiot drivers too, but I'm never going to ram my car into theirs to teach them a lesson. Being angry is okay, if a waste of my time. Committing road rage is never acceptable. Same here.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 1:29:09 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

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My answer to the OP would be the same, even were the genders reversed. I was just curious how many others' would be.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 10/31/2013 1:48:17 PM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl

Just out of curiosity, if the genders in the OP's dilemma were reversed, how many people would give the same advice they did on this thread? At the same time that I totally don't tolerate stalkerish behaviors & I know how it feels to be stalked, I also know I've seen people be harder on male s-types than female.

NBMG

Bunny boiling is never acceptable. However, some of this is due to the fact that in general, guys are physically bigger and can do more harm. A woman is more likely to key his car than to beat and rape.

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