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RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 10:29:44 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
What Igor said

Then I'll call bullshit on both of you.

Personally, I'm just enjoying the hell out of this latest spin. "The problem with Obamacare implementation is that the Republicans didn't help."

Translation being, "Democrats are utterly incompetent, when left to their own devices."

No. The problems with the ACA are it is too much a right wing plan. Obama wanted a bipartisan plan so he adopted a marginally successful right wing think tanks plan under the assumption that the GOP would go along with it. Instead they fought it, even though it was their plan pushed by their side throughout the 1990's.

If the Democrats had just gone ahead with what their base wanted, and what most Americans want, it would have been a single payer plan.


Well, that's when Democrats point out that the ideas within the ACA were from the Republicans, and THEN, release the single payer option AFTER they have had a decent experience of the ACA. When you ask folks that understand the material, you will generally find people are either 'ok' with it, or wish for a better system. Not one of them wants to go back to the previous system which had to many problems to count. People's insurance rates increasing by double digit numbers each year, bankruptcy is the 'norm' rather than 'not very often', and not a lot of competition.

I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it:

1 ) In the House
2 ) In the Senate
3 ) The White House
4 ) US Supreme Court
5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010
6 ) General Elections of 2012
7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013
8 ) Forty-Three separate bills
9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines!

Yeah, I believe that would best define 'incompetent' as being a Republican (and more importantly) and Tea Party trait! How many of those Tea Parties won public office at the national level? NONE!

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 10:37:40 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Then I'll call bullshit on both of you.

And you should. No matter where I stand on the ACA (jury's out in my mind), the facts on this are simple.

The Democrats wanted something.
The Republicans didn't want to play along.
The Democrats pushed forward anyway.

Ergo, it's all on them. I think the Republicans can safely wash their hands of most of it. I'd be annoyed to find that crap like the web site struggles were the result of underfunding from Republican efforts but yeah, the Democrats need to hold the lions share of whatever good/bad comes from the ACA.


LOL. Now that is entire amounts of bullshit! Republicans tried to water the bill down as it was proceeding through Congress in 2009-2010. Go read the ACTUAL history books JeffBC! Night after Night, Day after Day, Republicans and conservative groups tried anything and everything to slow, undermine and stop the ACA from proceeding forward. They went so far as to nearly shutting down the whole US Government. Or have you already forgotten that bit of RECENT US History? Republicans can not wash their hands of all their misdeeds, INCLUDING the last one.....EVER.

Funny thing is, with all the successes within the ACA, not one conservative on here or nationwide can congratulate the President and Democrats in all honesty and sincerity. Notice that last word, conservatives. The ACA has problems like any law on the books. Heck, look at all the problems created by the 2nd Amendment! You want a bill that is perfect in every possible, conceivable, absolute way? Your going to be waiting a very long, long. LONG....time!


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 10:47:45 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
LOL. Now that is entire amounts of bullshit! Republicans tried to water the bill down as it was proceeding through Congress in 2009-2010. Go read the ACTUAL history books JeffBC! Night after Night, Day after Day, Republicans and conservative groups tried anything and everything to slow, undermine and stop the ACA from proceeding forward. They went so far as to nearly shutting down the whole US Government. Or have you already forgotten that bit of RECENT US History? Republicans can not wash their hands of all their misdeeds, INCLUDING the last one.....EVER.

Oh please.

quote:

Funny thing is, with all the successes within the ACA, not one conservative on here or nationwide can congratulate the President and Democrats in all honesty and sincerity.

Perhaps you have access to information that I do not. But before I could reasonably talk about "all the successes of the ACA" I'd need to see a listing of what those were... not in theory, but in actual measurable FACT. I'll be happier counting wins & losses when reality sets in. As it sits, all I have is a lot of conflicting (and highly spun) news stories regarding rates going up, rates going down, coverage getting screwed over, etc.

quote:

Notice that last word, conservatives. The ACA has problems like any law on the books. Heck, look at all the problems created by the 2nd Amendment! You want a bill that is perfect in every possible, conceivable, absolute way? Your going to be waiting a very long, long. LONG....time!

I gather you think I'm a conservative? Let me disabuse you of that. I think we have a corporatist state and both the democrats and republicans are mostly hand puppets. I am quite confident that neither party gives a rat's ass about anything other than power and money. If you forced me to choose I'd have to say that the Republicans are more directly willing to sell us all into slavery but at least they are more forthright about it. Obama's big cheesy smile while he does it aggravates me.

_____________________________

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officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 10:57:17 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		"...I am quite confident that neither party gives a rat's ass about anything other than power and money."

As long as there are people naïve enough to not understand that basic truth, they will be easy pickings for both parties.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 11:24:47 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it:

1 ) In the House
2 ) In the Senate
3 ) The White House
4 ) US Supreme Court
5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010
6 ) General Elections of 2012
7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013
8 ) Forty-Three separate bills
9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines!


By misinformation you surely don't mean people getting dumped off insurance rolls and not being able to afford comperable plans or having to pay obscene rates with deductibles going to the moon.

Yeah, we failed to dump the train wreck for 3 years but now the American people are getting a taste of what you call misinformation. Misinformation has next year getting much worse. I can't figure out how the midterm elections of 2010 made the list but I seriously doubt you'll be adding the midterm elections of 2014.



_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 11:30:25 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it:

1 ) In the House
2 ) In the Senate
3 ) The White House
4 ) US Supreme Court
5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010
6 ) General Elections of 2012
7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013
8 ) Forty-Three separate bills
9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines!


By misinformation you surely don't mean people getting dumped off insurance rolls and not being able to afford comperable plans or having to pay obscene rates with deductibles going to the moon.

Yeah, we failed to dump the train wreck for 3 years but now the American people are getting a taste of what you call misinformation. Misinformation has next year getting much worse. I can't figure out how the midterm elections of 2010 made the list but I seriously doubt you'll be adding the midterm elections of 2014.




Don't blame him for not being able to figure out the rise in costs or the rising deductables, Lov. Numbers aren't his strong suit.

There is no doubt that the trials and tribulations of honest, hard-working Americans have failed to reach the ears of the governing elite. Thank God we still have a second amendment.





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(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 11:41:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

The important point is so many Americans could afford the "substandard" plan giving them what they could afford and now they must pay the penalty rather than buy insurance they cannot afford and so those who had insurance no longer have it to allow those who previously lacked insurance to have free or subsidized insurance.

No one who could only afford junk insurance won't be able to afford real coverage. If their income is that low they'll get very large subsidies or qualify for Medicaid.

(in reply to tammystarm)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 11:48:43 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Perhaps you have access to information that I do not. But before I could reasonably talk about "all the successes of the ACA" I'd need to see a listing of what those were... not in theory, but in actual measurable FACT.

Children able to stay on parents coverage till age 26.
Minimum levels of coverage effectively outlawing junk health insurance that only gave the illusion of coverage.
Improvements to Medicare part D including shrinking the so called donut hole.
Medicare cost saving which have caused Medicare to crack down on fraudulent suppliers like most of the power chair manufacturers.
Forbidding denial of coverage for people with preexisting conditions allowing people with numerous chronic conditions to either get insurance at all or to be able to switch jobs and still get the coverage they need.

Just to name some of the big ones already in effect.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/10/2013 11:53:58 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it:

1 ) In the House
2 ) In the Senate
3 ) The White House
4 ) US Supreme Court
5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010
6 ) General Elections of 2012
7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013
8 ) Forty-Three separate bills
9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines!


By misinformation you surely don't mean people getting dumped off insurance rolls and not being able to afford comperable plans or having to pay obscene rates with deductibles going to the moon.

Yeah, we failed to dump the train wreck for 3 years but now the American people are getting a taste of what you call misinformation. Misinformation has next year getting much worse. I can't figure out how the midterm elections of 2010 made the list but I seriously doubt you'll be adding the midterm elections of 2014.




Don't blame him for not being able to figure out the rise in costs or the rising deductables, Lov. Numbers aren't his strong suit.

There is no doubt that the trials and tribulations of honest, hard-working Americans have failed to reach the ears of the governing elite. Thank God we still have a second amendment.






Yes, thank God for that, "three hundred and fifty-six days a year", into the foreseeable future.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 12:24:39 AM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Perhaps you have access to information that I do not. But before I could reasonably talk about "all the successes of the ACA" I'd need to see a listing of what those were... not in theory, but in actual measurable FACT.

Children able to stay on parents coverage till age 26.
Minimum levels of coverage effectively outlawing junk health insurance that only gave the illusion of coverage.
Improvements to Medicare part D including shrinking the so called donut hole.
Medicare cost saving which have caused Medicare to crack down on fraudulent suppliers like most of the power chair manufacturers.
Forbidding denial of coverage for people with preexisting conditions allowing people with numerous chronic conditions to either get insurance at all or to be able to switch jobs and still get the coverage they need.

Just to name some of the big ones already in effect.


That's funny. You mentioned what the law states but not actually what is happening. What was being asked is, "Who got insurance that couldn't before."

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 12:41:49 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

... Is she that stupid to not understand that even the ACA is a marketplace, subject to inviolate market rules which have a natural reaction to unnatural interference?


I hope that your concerns will be proven unfounded since many are without healthcare, but given what you wrote it is possible that the markets are responding to its novelty which in time will wear off and perhaps also to the fear mongering of the Republicans. If the Republicans truly stayed out of it then no one could blame them for its demise. It could be problem reaction solution at work were the boogie man is an elephant wearing an Obama costume. Who exactly is the evil one here?

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 12:53:37 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Perhaps you have access to information that I do not. But before I could reasonably talk about "all the successes of the ACA" I'd need to see a listing of what those were... not in theory, but in actual measurable FACT.

Children able to stay on parents coverage till age 26.
Minimum levels of coverage effectively outlawing junk health insurance that only gave the illusion of coverage.
Improvements to Medicare part D including shrinking the so called donut hole.
Medicare cost saving which have caused Medicare to crack down on fraudulent suppliers like most of the power chair manufacturers.
Forbidding denial of coverage for people with preexisting conditions allowing people with numerous chronic conditions to either get insurance at all or to be able to switch jobs and still get the coverage they need.

Just to name some of the big ones already in effect.


That's funny. You mentioned what the law states but not actually what is happening. What was being asked is, "Who got insurance that couldn't before."

Actually the question was "all the successes of the ACA" as you can see by reading what I quoted.

(in reply to MalcolmNathaniel)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 1:04:39 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		They mentioned on the news a few times last week that a record number of people were applying for Medicare to try and by-pass the Obamacare system.
Oh, and where's all the Hollywood crowd lately, anyone seen any of them telling people what a great deal Obamacare is?
They were out en mass a few years ago but they're all mia now!

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 1:19:53 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		FR-

here is a married couple that is considering getting a divorce cuz they would save thousands on obamacare... (they got married in the first place to get less expensive healthcare thru her employer).. wow.. Is this the extent people have to go to??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rXIJGawVLk

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 2:09:38 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

They mentioned on the news a few times last week that a record number of people were applying for Medicare to try and by-pass the Obamacare system.

No one can apply for Medicare. You are eligible for Medicare if you are over 65 or disabled.

Don't you get tired of getting caught just making shit up?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 2:54:58 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

FR-

here is a married couple that is considering getting a divorce cuz they would save thousands on obamacare... (they got married in the first place to get less expensive healthcare thru her employer).. wow.. Is this the extent people have to go to??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rXIJGawVLk

hmmmm so she lost her job...no insurance...
they havent looked at other pricing yet, before they make their decision,
I wonder what kind of insurance they had that was worth getting married for.
Surely now , if she is unemployed, she will qualify for subsidies.


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(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 5:00:31 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Really?  And what are these people doing to suddenly become old enough for Medicare?  Using the Obama time machine?

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

They mentioned on the news a few times last week that a record number of people were applying for Medicare to try and by-pass the Obamacare system.
Oh, and where's all the Hollywood crowd lately, anyone seen any of them telling people what a great deal Obamacare is?
They were out en mass a few years ago but they're all mia now!

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 5:04:22 AM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Yep, all they have to do is keep propping up easily disproven lies for an entire year, and hope that no one notices...  worked so well in this lection.


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I would have to say that Republicans (and Tea Party more importantly) failed to kill the Affordable Care Act. Failed to kill it:

1 ) In the House
2 ) In the Senate
3 ) The White House
4 ) US Supreme Court
5 ) Mid-term Elections of 2010
6 ) General Elections of 2012
7 ) Federal Government Shutdown in 2013
8 ) Forty-Three separate bills
9 ) Round the clock, seven days a week, three hundred and fifty-six days a year for three years by the conservative misinformation machines!


By misinformation you surely don't mean people getting dumped off insurance rolls and not being able to afford comperable plans or having to pay obscene rates with deductibles going to the moon.

Yeah, we failed to dump the train wreck for 3 years but now the American people are getting a taste of what you call misinformation. Misinformation has next year getting much worse. I can't figure out how the midterm elections of 2010 made the list but I seriously doubt you'll be adding the midterm elections of 2014.



(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 7:17:46 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
FR-
here is a married couple that is considering getting a divorce cuz they would save thousands on obamacare... (they got married in the first place to get less expensive healthcare thru her employer).. wow.. Is this the extent people have to go to??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rXIJGawVLk


Is this a live by the sword (less expensive health insurance), die by the sword (more expensive health insurance) example for this marriage?

I call for the strengthening of DOMA so we can save bi- and homosexuals from the garbage that is the current state of marriage.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
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  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: He said it would be steak, but ... - 11/11/2013 7:40:13 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

No, instead we have them selling us all into slavery and eroding constitutional rights to the point of non-existence.



And all the while, except for a couple Ted Rall types who haven't fled the country, people who actually hold the values of liberalism dear are just impotently watching it happen.



http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4583308

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

like I give a rats ass what you call bullshit on... LOL,




Like you give a rats ass about whether the whole law is any good or not, Lucy. It has nothing to do with you, beyond being the current storyline in your favorite soap opera.


Got to love it when a right winger claims in one post that liberals are eroding people's rights and in another tries to deny someone the right to speak.

you would think after all this time, its obvious that Im not gonna shut up.
Free speech for everyone but lil ol me, I wonder why, I gotta be told what I think, SNSORTS



He didn't say you didn't have the right to speak. He said it didn't have anything to do with you. But please enlighten us. How is your health insurance going to be impacted by the ACA?

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(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 60
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