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50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963


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50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/22/2013 4:49:58 AM   
Zonie63


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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ej-dionne-what-we-lost-50-years-ago-with-jfk/2013/11/20/efb7ad30-5220-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html

An interesting perspective on what we lost 50 years ago when President John F. Kennedy was assassinated.

quote:

But more important than settling the question of who has a fair claim on JFK is the reason why all sides want to get right with him: He has come to represent a time of widespread national confidence in our country’s possibilities. The year 1963 dawned, as Andrew Kohut of the Pew Research Center has noted, with 82 percent of the country believing that the power of the United States would increase.


The 82% figure struck me, as it seemed to be a more hopeful and energetic time than now. I wasn't quite born yet, although my mother told me that she was pregnant with me and polishing the silver when she heard of the assassination.

Another article I came across calls for the release of all the JFK documents still deemed classified and unavailable to the public.

quote:

Many Americans who lived through that day mourn for more than a young president who seemed so full of life and energy. To them his sudden death was an end to boundless idealism, just as it seemed to mark the beginning of a series of events that tarnished their trust in government and political leaders.

Even Kennedy himself has suffered in ensuing years as the truth about his dalliances and his cold political calculations on civil rights and other key issues have come into focus. Fifty years ago, the office of the president commanded respect and dignity. Even those who showed up in Dallas that day with signs protesting the president’s policies were tame compared with what his successors — beginning with Lyndon Johnson and the anti-war protestors and carrying on through Barack Ohama and the vitriol of talk radio — have had to endure.

Americans have seen many wars and scandals in the ensuing years, including the resignation of a president and the impeachment (and acquittal) of another. They have seen runaway spending jeopardize the nation’s credit rating following the near collapse of the economy.

There are plenty of reasons to regard 1963 as a happier time.

But there is one overriding reason why the fixation continues. Thousands of pages of documents related to the investigation of Kennedy’s death remain classified and off-limits to researchers.


I think the JFK assassination launched the granddaddy of all conspiracy theories.

So, I just thought I'd throw out some open-ended questions:

Was 1963 a happier time in America? Is it happier now?

How would the country be different if JFK had lived?

Who killed JFK and why?

Towards the end of Oliver Stone's Nixon, there is the following quote:

Richard M. Nixon: [to a portrait of Kennedy] When they look at you, they see what they want to be. When they look at me, they see what they are.

Is there any truth to that line?
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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/22/2013 5:06:33 AM   
servantforuse


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I believe the mafia was responsible for the assignation of JFK. The two bosses responsible were Carlos Marcelo who controlled the mob in New Orleans and Santo Trafficanti Jr who controlled Tampa Bay and most of the rest of Florida. The reason was Bobbi Kennedy. They wanted him out of the picture as United States Attorney General.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/22/2013 5:29:27 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I believe the mafia was responsible for the assignation of JFK. The two bosses responsible were Carlos Marcelo who controlled the mob in New Orleans and Santo Trafficanti Jr who controlled Tampa Bay and most of the rest of Florida. The reason was Bobbi Kennedy. They wanted him out of the picture as United States Attorney General.


I've heard all kinds of theories. There are some who are adamant that Oswald acted alone, that there's no mystery about it, and that closes the case. I'm not so certain of that, although I agree that it would best for the government to release the files. Interestingly enough, Oliver Stone's JFK caused quite a public stir that Congress eventually ordered the release of quite a number of documents regarding the JFK assassination, but not all of them.





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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/24/2013 3:36:24 AM   
FellowSlave


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It is disgusting how mainstream media still pushes L. H. Oswald as the killer.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/24/2013 6:07:33 AM   
vincentML


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If anyone wonders why nobody much cares . . . only one third of Americans alive today were alive back then.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/24/2013 6:40:18 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

If anyone wonders why nobody much cares . . . only one third of Americans alive today were alive back then.


Still, it was an important event which should be remembered. A lot of people talk about current events and ask how things got this way, but in order to find out, one has to look back and see the chain of events leading us to where we are now. I realize that not very many people care.


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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/24/2013 8:23:12 AM   
kalikshama


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We've been watching Mad Men, which begins when Kennedy is running for president. We happened to get to the episode where Kennedy was assassinated on the 22nd.

That inspired me to start rereading Stephen King's "11-22-63" which includes some great historical fiction.

Other JFK assassination theories fiction I like is Corruption of Blood, a gripping story that draws from author Robert K. Tanenbaum's own experience as Deputy Chief Counsel for the U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/25/2013 11:21:21 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

If anyone wonders why nobody much cares . . . only one third of Americans alive today were alive back then.


Still, it was an important event which should be remembered. A lot of people talk about current events and ask how things got this way, but in order to find out, one has to look back and see the chain of events leading us to where we are now. I realize that not very many people care.



An important event for those of us who watched television that weekend.

And your 'chain of events' raises the question of the duration of cause and effect in history without inventing counterfactual(?) hypotheticals.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/25/2013 11:41:07 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I believe the mafia was responsible for the assignation of JFK. The two bosses responsible were Carlos Marcelo who controlled the mob in New Orleans and Santo Trafficanti Jr who controlled Tampa Bay and most of the rest of Florida. The reason was Bobbi Kennedy. They wanted him out of the picture as United States Attorney General.

Than it would follow that you also believe these two men and their confidants were able to keep their conspiracy secret for all of these fifty years
Do you really believe that is true ?
We know so damm much about the true history of organized crime in this country.....yet they managed to find a way to bury all EVIDENCE of this the most explosive conspiracy of them all ?

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/25/2013 11:44:35 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FellowSlave

It is disgusting how mainstream media still pushes L. H. Oswald as the killer.

Perhaps because he was the actual assassin ?
After fifty years it's time to accept the truth...one lone loser was able to affect the course of history.....I know how difficult it is to accept that but truth is truth.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/25/2013 12:48:49 PM   
servantforuse


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I do believe that they were able to just that. Bobbi was wrecking havoc with the mob controlled unions, the teamsters in particular. They wanted him gone.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/25/2013 6:47:06 PM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

If anyone wonders why nobody much cares . . . only one third of Americans alive today were alive back then.


Still, it was an important event which should be remembered. A lot of people talk about current events and ask how things got this way, but in order to find out, one has to look back and see the chain of events leading us to where we are now. I realize that not very many people care.



An important event for those of us who watched television that weekend.

And your 'chain of events' raises the question of the duration of cause and effect in history without inventing counterfactual(?) hypotheticals.


I don't know if there's any duration to cause and effect. I would just go through it on a matter-of-fact basis. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/25/2013 7:19:36 PM   
FellowSlave


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Perhaps because he was the actual assassin ?

Are you a mental patient? 90% of Americans who have looked at the facts think otherwise... and the remaining 10% ask, "Who the hell was JFK".

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/25/2013 7:35:14 PM   
FellowSlave


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To add:
The question if a single assassin can do it or not is totally irrelevant; only available evidence matters.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/25/2013 10:43:38 PM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: FellowSlave

It is disgusting how mainstream media still pushes L. H. Oswald as the killer.

Perhaps because he was the actual assassin ?
After fifty years it's time to accept the truth...one lone loser was able to affect the course of history.....I know how difficult it is to accept that but truth is truth.


I think that's probably the best explanation anyone is going to get. There may always be questions surrounding this event, just as there have always been questions surrounding most other historical events of this magnitude.

I think that this matter could have been put to rest better if another lone loser by the name of Jack Ruby hadn't robbed the country of its right to try the man who murdered its President. If we had been able to put Oswald on trial and let justice prevail, it might have given the country a sense of closure, but because of what Ruby did, all we're left with is a bunch of messy conspiracy theories, most of which seem to cloud the whole affair in shroud of deceit and intrigue. Is that something that America needed and hungered for, some deeper meaning for these events?

The whole idea that it could be just some lone nut and nothing else kind of seems like a letdown. I think people were hoping for something more, that some new evidence would be found or some great revelation.

I mean, nobody seems to care all that much about McKinley's or Garfield's assassinations anymore. Some people might still care about Lincoln's assassination, but only because of who Lincoln was, not for any intrigue surrounding that assassination (although a few people are into that). But what is it about JFK's assassination which has so many people captivated and believing that it must have been a conspiracy?




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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/26/2013 5:28:52 AM   
servantforuse


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I believe that a mob hit killed Oswald. Jack Ruby also had mob ties, to Marcelo and others. He carried out the hit. He had nothing to lose as he was dying anyways.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/26/2013 6:04:45 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FellowSlave

Perhaps because he was the actual assassin ?

Are you a mental patient? 90% of Americans who have looked at the facts think otherwise... and the remaining 10% ask, "Who the hell was JFK".



90% wow, that's high. But rather than call mike mental why don't you just prove you know what you are talking about and provide a link to back up your numbers. That way people will know they can trust that you are not just talking out your ass.

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/26/2013 6:14:41 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I think that this matter could have been put to rest better if another lone loser by the name of Jack Ruby hadn't robbed the country of its right to try the man who murdered its President. If we had been able to put Oswald on trial and let justice prevail, it might have given the country a sense of closure, but because of what Ruby did, all we're left with is a bunch of messy conspiracy theories, most of which seem to cloud the whole affair in shroud of deceit and intrigue. Is that something that America needed and hungered for, some deeper meaning for these events?



The first rule of assassination: Kill the assassins so they can't implicate you in the conspiracy.





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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/26/2013 9:03:26 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

I don't know if there's any duration to cause and effect. I would just go through it on a matter-of-fact basis. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Interpretations of history. For example, some claim there is a connection from the 1919 Treaty at Versailles to hyper inflation in Berlin to the fall of Weimer to the rise of Hitler. A different interpretation would be that Hitler came to power because he threw a lot of money at the German recession which was just an offshoot of the failure of capitalism and market speculation.

As painful as Kennedy's assignation was at the time it may have little relevance to our present national condition. So, maybe not so memorable???

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RE: 50 Years Ago Today: November 22, 1963 - 11/26/2013 9:21:31 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I don't know if there's any duration to cause and effect. I would just go through it on a matter-of-fact basis. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Interpretations of history. For example, some claim there is a connection from the 1919 Treaty at Versailles to hyper inflation in Berlin to the fall of Weimer to the rise of Hitler. A different interpretation would be that Hitler came to power because he threw a lot of money at the German recession which was just an offshoot of the failure of capitalism and market speculation.


Both interpretations would have some truth to them, although I would say the difference is one of emphasis, not any obvious contradiction with the available facts.

quote:


As painful as Kennedy's assignation was at the time it may have little relevance to our present national condition. So, maybe not so memorable???


Maybe not. As I mentioned above, few people seem to care or remember much about Garfield's or McKinley's assassinations, so there's a question of why JFK and Oswald are so famous. Perhaps because it's still in the active memories of people alive today (although that number is getting smaller, as you pointed out). Maybe in a hundred years, historians will be able to put these events into better perspective.

I somewhat disagree with the view that it may have little relevance to our present national condition. In terms of the grand scale of history, 50 years is just a drop in the bucket. It wasn't that long ago, and I don't really see any obvious disconnect between the events of today and the events of 50 years ago. The decade in which it happened is viewed as a pivotal decade, the barrier between the "old paradigm" and the "new paradigm," something which still influences how we see things nowadays.

(in reply to vincentML)
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