RE: Should this "child" have been aborted?

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RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/27/2013 6:02:30 AM

MsMJAY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Us0Two

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
How do you propose to "let" someone die who even without "intense medical intervention" nevertheless declines to cooperate? What should have been done? Withholding nourishment was suggested, but only a psychopath could argue that starving him to death would simply be "letting" him die. Got any better ideas for how to dispose of him without actually disposing of him?

I have to disagree with you about this to a degree. Unfortunately, sometimes withholding nourishment is exactly how people are allowed to die. It's fairly common actually. It's sick and twisted, but it's also the only way to allow someone to die without being accused of murder.

When my wife's cancer got too bad, she went on hospice. She was dying, and in a good deal of pain. She finally decided that she'd had enough and started refusing food. I had to watch and wait over a week as she slowly starved to death. I had plenty of narcotics on hand, it would have been a simple matter to give her enough to put an end to the pain, but then odds are I'd be in prison now. I even had to fight with a nurse who tried to insist that she be brought into the hospital and put on an IV.

So yes, according to the laws in place at present, drugging someone unconscious while they die of starvation and dehydration is normal. But giving them enough pain meds to end their suffering immediately is a criminal act and considered unethical.

My heart truly goes out to you. I mentioned earlier that our attention in this country is going to have to eventually be given to end of life issues. I lost a close relative to cancer also and watched her needlessly suffer until she slowly died. It is what changed my perspective on this issue. I believe people should be allowed to decide end of life issues for themselves and there should be places where they can go to say their goodbyes to their loved ones and die on their own terms.

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RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/27/2013 8:22:22 AM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Mine trumps yours, I get my authority from Gary the unicorn.

I'm happy to hear you found a fath-based system that is working for you, GotSteel. I can hardly keep track sometimes though. That isn't the unicorn cult where the priests got in trouble over the "sit and spin" thing, is it?

That'll have been <finger quotes>Irony</finger quotes>

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RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/27/2013 12:26:02 PM

vincentML

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quote:

Conjunction of the words "affective" and "brain stem" might seem contradictory to those who hold a dogmatic view of the lower brain as merely reflexive. But it is worth keeping in mind that almost every feeling of physical pleasure or pain felt by your forebrain must climb its way there through the brain stem. Much can happen to ascending signals on the way, and there is compelling reason to believe that brain stem sites themselves make important contributions to affective experience. Pain is clearly modulated in important ways by brain stem structures... Pleasures owe part of their hedonic impact to brain stem processing too, just as pains do. ~Source (p.36)

Contributions and modulated do not necessarily translate into awareness. What distinguishes humans is their highly convoluted and neuron rich cortex. I would guess the limbic system plays a more important role in modulating ascending signals than does the brain stem.

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RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/27/2013 12:53:36 PM

vincentML

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Here is the quote, Rich: "Thank you, Rich. Perhaps you can give me answers to questions that were inartfully dodged by other small government, individual liberty types earlier in this thread." I was referring to others, not you. Perhaps you are being a tad too sensitive, Rich. I misunderstood your government ideology? Oh gee, sue me.

quote:

So getting back around to the topic of the thread, Vincent, are you of the opinion that the government should be able to compel an abortion in cases like this?

FFS. I answered the question of CHOICE back in post #20. And I clearly defined the subject of this thread in post #61. Stated my position again in post #131.

Government compelling abortion was never the topic of this thread. That was either your misreading of the OP or your imagination. In any case just a waste of time and words by you. GAWD!!! Your posts have been so distracting from the thread topic and contributed nothing from your fixation on the word 'aborted.' Nuances, Rich. You bragged of nuances but so sorely lacking.

I can't spend anymore time with your misconceptions. Bye.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/27/2013 1:00:50 PM >

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RE: Should this "child" have been aborted? - 11/27/2013 4:54:09 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Oh gee, sue me.

Thanks, but I think I'll stick to just slapping you around.

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Post #: 145