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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/29/2013 3:18:10 AM   
forcedsensuality


Posts: 70
Joined: 4/27/2012
Status: offline 		I have an old friend who insists on my regular discipline, my spanking buddy. at least one a month. if I'm "overdue" then, well there might be extra, so I'm forced to check with her fairly regularly. Like the dental checkup, leave it too long and it could be a whole lot more painful.

She plays the old-fashioned school teacher with her straps and canes. She worries about keeping up with the latest techniques from BDSM stuff, so whips and clamps and restraining devices are used .. we joke about the 'multidisciplinary approach', but sometimes it is no joke, since she wants to have me continuing to fear her and the pain to be as surprising and innovative as we can make it.

This thread made think of that cliched fantasy, the schoolgirl. Well my disciplinarian does like me in a SCHOOL BOY UNIFORM from time to time, that's short pants and long socks. She makes me strip as part of the physical inspection. But often just to the briefs, for the first few rounds.

As to the underwear, it's standard tight briefs, silky. When arranging my next appointment she'll tell me what colour to wear, so I know in advance. Red means it's time for some serious heat, full coverage. Pink, that's just a grade lower than full force but inclined towards red, so I better behave. Yellow and black, there should still be bruises, so it'll be harder if they've gone. White is innocence, maybe cuddles and massages, maybe sacrificial lamb.

Of course she has been known to decide I'm wearing the wrong colour during a session .. let's see how that looks ? Yes, we need to add more strokes now that it's pink.

I wear the coloured briefs for the week approaching the appointment. Putting on a new pair of red briefs each day for a week, feeling them, a constant reminder, that is perhaps exciting and terrifying in equal part. I always wear the same actual one pair for the sessions though, so something she said a few months ago was "We must be sure to wear out the red briefs first ! If the lighter colours are wearing faster then we will simply have to do some more work with the red !" (fingers crossed we won't have to)

So simple enough. Not humiliating, more a power difference and role play made physically real, a uniform geared to bring home and remind me of the object of the exercise .. to maximise my anticipation and fear, my pain, and her sadistic pleasure. I am the schoolboy, dressed by her to suit her. It seems to fit the scene acutely.

Do any other dominant women enjoy the schoolboy look ?

I think the schoolgirl thing in 'adult stuff' might sometimes be a bit sick and creepy, but Mistress K's schoolboy thing is just what's been happening between naughty schoolboys and teachers making the most of what some saw as a perk of the job. That's what she tells me anyway, "these days it's called a kink, but it's really a perk of my job, which is to inflict real pain, so that your submission to my whim is real, so boy, bend over the chair, now, and I want you looking perky !"

(in reply to Mxybunny)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 11/29/2013 5:07:03 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


I'd put it more strongly. My experience is that the vast majority of people have no idea why they do certain things, and, in fact, are usually wrong about their motivations, especially when they are afraid of being criticized. People don't like seeing ugliness in themselves -- or they skew the other way, and pathologically see the ugliness only. To understand and accept oneself, warts and all, is a lifelong process, and no one ever really finishes it.

It takes years of struggle, either with a therapist or just with other people calling you out on your shit, to gain a deep self-understanding. It doesn't happen through private introspection alone.



Oh I agree. Most people don't know why certain things turn them on, they just know it does, they've accepted that part of themselves, and they move on. I think most of us are like that.

When I first told my therapist I was into rape play, she was concerned, given my past history. Once she learned that *I* am the one in control of the situation, she became much less so. She now sees it as a way of me owning and overcoming my past in a not unhealthy way. (I'm not sure she'd go so far as to say it's healthy.)

She and I have explored certain things in my past, and talked about how it effects me today. Her attitude is that you don't really need to go back and resolve everything in your past, as long as you're living a healthy today. (Yes I know not all therapists agree with that).

My point being you may not discover the whys and wherefores of everything you do, even with a good therapist. We humans are highly complex beings.

And I most definitely agree with your last statement about acceptance. That's the key to living a healthy today.



_____________________________



(in reply to RedMagic1)
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RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/1/2013 8:56:32 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JetOnly

I do think its unfair to tell someone that their fettish is based on one thing when they say it isn't. It may be someones experience that everyone they have met has been or seemed like that but that does not have to be the case with everyone

I was specifically talking of someone who is humiliated by their Desire to be dressed up like that and from the negativity and assumptions on here I can kinda understand why someone would feel conflicted by wanting it

As for role
Afaik sissy is a role
Is a little insulting everyone younger than them saying they all have such an easy life? The role forgets much of the problems a younger people have and picks out the things the person feels they can't do in their real life

Many men feel they can't show emotion, can't wear soft clothes etc and if they do they are called a sissy
If we didn't hate on men so much trying to keep them in such strict boxes of what we think manhood is then perhaps less would wish to play this role
Sounds to me more likely many men could want to do this because they envy women rather than hate them or think them as less
Yes some could well come from places of hate towards women, but that dosent mean all do

I think all fettishes are way more complex than one driving force, and yet as simple as 'it makes me horny'
A man does not have to justify why looking at a lady makes him hard, or why he might love to see a lady in lace panties, but he has to justify why he gets excited by wearing them


Jet-
You are confusing several things here, as MX did. No one said wearing panties or dressing up as a woman was wrong or that gender play was wrong, nor did they say it was misogynistic. Getting turned on by getting dressed up is okay, feeling calm expressing a femme self is fine, and so forth, I didn't see anyone questioning that or claiming it was misogynistic.

What people were commenting on is the idea that being dressed as a woman is humiliating. We are not talking about where you have some fat beet bellied guy wearing frillies (which would be ridiculous, like a very overweight woman wearing clothing teens wear), what we are talking about is the notion that if a man wears women's clothing, it is emasculating, humiliating, etc. I am not saying the fetish is wrong or that those who have the fetish look at women IRL as inferior or not worthy, most don't IME, but rather that the humiliation that is the real fetish has roots in misogynistic concepts. The humiliation is that they have internalized that wearing women's clothing demeans men simply because they are women's clothing; they get off on the humiliation and don't even think of why it is humiliating, they have internalized the common notion that a man wearing women's clothing and such is 'less' and so forth. The fetish itself is humiliation, wanting to be humiliated, it is the root of what is seen as humiliating that is misogynistic at its base.

Ask yourself this question, why is wearing women's clothing by a man seen as emasculating, why would it be considered something to consider a man less then a man, why do CD's and trans folks face getting beaten up, why is the immediate response they are somehow worthy of being beat up? The answer is that a man wearing women's clothing is an object of derision, to the point that some feel they deserve to be beat up, and the only answer I can come up with is that makes sense is that a man wearing women's clothing is made less because those are the clothes of the 'weaker' sex and so forth. Like I said, a woman can where menswear, a women in a locker room wearing tighty whities or a man's shirt would not face ridicule, a man in female panties (or event that look feminine) would hear about it.

(in reply to JetOnly)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/1/2013 9:00:00 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14414
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		^^^ this was a very well expressed post....and pretty much dead on describes my feelings on the matter.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to njlauren)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/1/2013 9:01:13 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

But I also knew that I could kick any of their a$$es, and that is also a very powerful currency in male culture. Frankly, that is why they looked, and even giggled, but NOT ONE OF THEM dared say anything.

One of the sad realities of male culture is that if I weren't physically stronger than most of them, I likely would have been teased, or even become the subject of bullying by the other males in the locker room.



As this thread winds down, I wanted to go back and reiterate something that I said earlier.

I know that there are many newbie Dommes who read these threads and get ideas for things to do to their subs. So I wanted to say again that if you add public humiliation to a forced feminization scene, there is a very real possibility of negative repercussions for the male sub that you may not have anticipated.

Until society becomes more open-minded, and things like bullying disappear from our society, I strongly recommend that you be very careful if trying to humiliate a male in front of other males through forced feminization. Women often aren't completely aware of the dynamics that take place between men. But just think about some of the persecution that gay males sometimes receive at the hands of other men. Physical violence can even occur. I'm not saying that it's fair or right, but it's a reality that you must keep in mind as you plan your humiliation play.

That's just my 2 cents, so take it for what it's worth. But it's better to be safe than sorry.


Roche-

That is a great statement, and I agree with this in general when it comes to public play, it could be putting someone on a collar and leash, etc...with forced femme, the reason there is that threat of violence is the same thing that drives violence against gay men, having sex with another man or wearing women's clothing is taking on a women's role or dressing like them is seen as making them 'less a man', and the violence is lashing out at a man who would dare do that. I have dealt with this up close and personal, being trans and in transition, some of it very vicious, and it was in large part because they saw me as being a 'traitor' to men and so forth.....it is sad, but a reality.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/1/2013 9:12:52 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
And when you make assertions about how something doesn't apply to you, you're more believable if you come up with more than: it doesn't apply to me b/c it I say it doesn't.

I'd put it more strongly. My experience is that the vast majority of people have no idea why they do certain things, and, in fact, are usually wrong about their motivations, especially when they are afraid of being criticized. People don't like seeing ugliness in themselves -- or they skew the other way, and pathologically see the ugliness only. To understand and accept oneself, warts and all, is a lifelong process, and no one ever really finishes it.

It takes years of struggle, either with a therapist or just with other people calling you out on your shit, to gain a deep self-understanding. It doesn't happen through private introspection alone.

Red Magic-

Agreed. I don't think it is really critical someone understands where a fetish comes from, but with the forced femme humiliation I think it is important to understand why some women would react negatively to it. If someone is humiliated by wearing women's clothing, it means they associate that with being humiliated, and it is something internalized quite young, picked up from others. All one has to do is think back a bit, like where a football coach will tell a player, who they think isn't tough enough, why don't you put on a skirt and be a cheerleader, or to quote a certain football coach in the NFL when assessing how a running back was doing, and he responded "she is doing well"....women have been associated with the weaker sex, and anything where a male takes on 'female' attributes is often looked down upon. An offensive lineman for the Miami Dolphins, who is 315 pounds, a mountain, was being bullied by a teammate (reputedly the coaches may have had a hand in that, to toughen the guy up), and read the responses to it on online forums, telling him to 'man up' and stop acting like a girl, stop being soft, etc......It is all part and parcel to the way men grow up in many cases, it has been internalized. It is kind of like the person who thinks they are color blind, don't look down on blacks, yet in certain things has accepted things that are racist (like a friend of mine, who when we were talking about racism and prejudice, and I mentioned how segregated most suburbs are in the NYC area, that in most towns there are few blacks, and then you see towns that are mostly black, and he said "oh, that is because blacks prefer living where everyone else is black", which is an assumption that doesn't hold water in reality, but he assumed it was true.

I personally don't have a problem with forced femme or humiliation play in being 'dressed up', I simply said that women could have problems with it because its roots are in what you are talking about, that it is because they are dressed in the clothing of women that it is happening.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 4:30:02 AM   
JetOnly


Posts: 78
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: JetOnly

I do think its unfair to tell someone that their fettish is based on one thing when they say it isn't. It may be someones experience that everyone they have met has been or seemed like that but that does not have to be the case with everyone

I was specifically talking of someone who is humiliated by their Desire to be dressed up like that and from the negativity and assumptions on here I can kinda understand why someone would feel conflicted by wanting it

As for role
Afaik sissy is a role
Is a little insulting everyone younger than them saying they all have such an easy life? The role forgets much of the problems a younger people have and picks out the things the person feels they can't do in their real life

Many men feel they can't show emotion, can't wear soft clothes etc and if they do they are called a sissy
If we didn't hate on men so much trying to keep them in such strict boxes of what we think manhood is then perhaps less would wish to play this role
Sounds to me more likely many men could want to do this because they envy women rather than hate them or think them as less
Yes some could well come from places of hate towards women, but that dosent mean all do

I think all fettishes are way more complex than one driving force, and yet as simple as 'it makes me horny'
A man does not have to justify why looking at a lady makes him hard, or why he might love to see a lady in lace panties, but he has to justify why he gets excited by wearing them


Jet-
You are confusing several things here, as MX did. No one said wearing panties or dressing up as a woman was wrong or that gender play was wrong, nor did they say it was misogynistic. Getting turned on by getting dressed up is okay, feeling calm expressing a femme self is fine, and so forth, I didn't see anyone questioning that or claiming it was misogynistic.

What people were commenting on is the idea that being dressed as a woman is humiliating. We are not talking about where you have some fat beet bellied guy wearing frillies (which would be ridiculous, like a very overweight woman wearing clothing teens wear), what we are talking about is the notion that if a man wears women's clothing, it is emasculating, humiliating, etc. I am not saying the fetish is wrong or that those who have the fetish look at women IRL as inferior or not worthy, most don't IME, but rather that the humiliation that is the real fetish has roots in misogynistic concepts. The humiliation is that they have internalized that wearing women's clothing demeans men simply because they are women's clothing; they get off on the humiliation and don't even think of why it is humiliating, they have internalized the common notion that a man wearing women's clothing and such is 'less' and so forth. The fetish itself is humiliation, wanting to be humiliated, it is the root of what is seen as humiliating that is misogynistic at its base.

Ask yourself this question, why is wearing women's clothing by a man seen as emasculating, why would it be considered something to consider a man less then a man, why do CD's and trans folks face getting beaten up, why is the immediate response they are somehow worthy of being beat up? The answer is that a man wearing women's clothing is an object of derision, to the point that some feel they deserve to be beat up, and the only answer I can come up with is that makes sense is that a man wearing women's clothing is made less because those are the clothes of the 'weaker' sex and so forth. Like I said, a woman can where menswear, a women in a locker room wearing tighty whities or a man's shirt would not face ridicule, a man in female panties (or event that look feminine) would hear about it.


But you are assuming the reason for the humiliation, I never said my friend wanted to be emasculated, that he felt it would make him less than a man. He also feels humilated by being made to dress in any way that makes him stand out and is away from his norm, this would make him stand out even more
the only roots in misogyny here is other peoples reactions, I haddnt fully understood how much anger there was against this fettish even in the kink world
I never said he was demeaning anyone at all, I was TOLD that was what he was doing by people on here

For what its worth I have been threatened with being take out in pink clothes and the idea humilates Me - not because I see a girly girl as anything less - but that it is SO different from the look I choose to portray

Also it is not just men in womans clothing that makes them an object of others hate with a desire to beat them up, I have plenty friends who dress in leather, who dye their hair or have long hair, who wear biker jackets or new rock boots and they attract people who want to beat them up because they look different from the norm and because of others narrow minds
I have had friends beaten up because they are with women who are dressed in PVC

So YES a man forced into the locker room in frilly panties would face ridicule and possibly aggression, not because of HIS beliefs against women but because of others narrow minds and how they can be challanged by anything out of the normal
He can feel humiliated by the idea that others are going to be making assumptions about him, by feeling he is being made to stand out

Yes of course alot of that is to do with culture and that culture is still misogynistic to a greater or lesser degree
Its also a society that says men should never hit women, women should totally never get off on hitting men and all sorts of other things that people on here enjoy now but many many of them will have had to struggle with the idea they liked them and wanted to try them in the first place

Im not saying there may be SOME people who like certain ideas for bad reasons - but to assume ALL men that are humilated by the idea it is because of their belief that women are somehow lesser than men - that is unfair to the individuals, nothing is as simple as that that everyone enjoys the same thing for exactly the same reason

(in reply to njlauren)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 6:58:43 AM   
JetOnly


Posts: 78
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline 		I do wonder if there is a difference in how people define 'humiliation' going on here also. I dont see that humiliation has to mean negative feelings by the person except in terms of doing something considered not socially acceptable

quote:

It can be brought about through intimidation, physical or mental mistreatment or trickery, or by embarrassment if a person is revealed to have committed a socially or legally unacceptable act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humiliation

and perhaps a cultural or personal differences in that confident people might not feel humiliation in such simple ways - and how in the UK we are brought up to feel it almost constantly! I receive bad service and *I* feel humiliated to bring it up

(in reply to JetOnly)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 7:41:04 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

the reason there is that threat of violence is the same thing that drives violence against gay men, having sex with another man or wearing women's clothing is taking on a women's role or dressing like them is seen as making them 'less a man', and the violence is lashing out at a man who would dare do that. I have dealt with this up close and personal, being trans and in transition, some of it very vicious, and it was in large part because they saw me as being a 'traitor' to men and so forth.....it is sad, but a reality.



NJLauren,
I thought you would understand and relate to my warning.

I just hope that the Dommes who plan to do forced feminization fully understand the potential consequences of such play. What may seem like innocent fun can often turn dangerous or even deadly.

Sadly, men can be cruel, and often violent. So I thought the added warning was appropriate. I hope the Dommes heed my message.

(in reply to njlauren)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 8:02:30 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JetOnly
I haddnt fully understood how much anger there was against this fettish even in the kink world

Nah, there isn't much anger against the fetish. Certainly, I've seen none on this thread. There's a lot of aggravation because of the behavior of the male fetishists. Mxybunny is a poster child for that, unfortunately -- someone who sees the world through stereotypes instead of reality. Comments like, of course he's the one submitting because he's groveling at her feet. In real life, there are all kinds of couples where the "sub" has the emotional control of the relationship. So comments like that are indicative of people who haven't gotten out much.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to JetOnly)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 9:29:43 AM   
JetOnly


Posts: 78
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JetOnly
I haddnt fully understood how much anger there was against this fettish even in the kink world

Nah, there isn't much anger against the fetish. Certainly, I've seen none on this thread. There's a lot of aggravation because of the behavior of the male fetishists. Mxybunny is a poster child for that, unfortunately -- someone who sees the world through stereotypes instead of reality. Comments like, of course he's the one submitting because he's groveling at her feet. In real life, there are all kinds of couples where the "sub" has the emotional control of the relationship. So comments like that are indicative of people who haven't gotten out much.

That is a little unfair as he was talking about himself and what he was doing not that all relationships are like that, to say he hasnt gotten out much is a bit unkind, yes there are relationships that are not like that but there are also plenty where people DO like the sub at their feet, personally I like how easy it is to condition that position so that the person reaches a subby state when they are put in that position
You may not agree with his submission but what is important is it works for him and his partner, if it does then he has no need to be getting out more

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 9:39:44 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I was unclear, sorry. What I wanted to say is that groveling only indicates bottoming, not submission -- or, indeed, any form of obedience. Maybe the groveler is insisting, "Let me grovel to you," so the person with the feet is the one obeying.

The inability to separate bottoming from submission is a common symptom of men with porn-experience only. People with a bit more real-life experience know that there exist both dominant bottoms and dominant masochists. His logic in that sentence didn't take that reality into account, so it didn't cohere. Hence, my strong suspicion he hasn't met too many kinksters in the real world.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to JetOnly)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 10:00:33 AM   
JetOnly


Posts: 78
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I was unclear, sorry. What I wanted to say is that groveling only indicates bottoming, not submission -- or, indeed, any form of obedience. Maybe the groveler is insisting, "Let me grovel to you," so the person with the feet is the one obeying.

The inability to separate bottoming from submission is a common symptom of men with porn-experience only. People with a bit more real-life experience know that there exist both dominant bottoms and dominant masochists. His logic in that sentence didn't take that reality into account, so it didn't cohere. Hence, my strong suspicion he hasn't met too many kinksters in the real world.

OK fair enough :) of course I agree that of course groveling at someones feet does not mean someone is submissive, it also dosent say they are not, it depends on the dynamic. I took that statement as an exasperated statement rather than an absolute that someone on their knees HAS to be a sub :)

Also depending on someones kinks they dont have to get out in the real world and meet kinky people to know themselves kinky :)

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 6:16:48 PM   
Mxybunny


Posts: 17
Joined: 3/30/2012
Status: offline 		I was planning to take a break, refresh myself and come back to this thread even more level-headed, and even had quite a few responses planned. The sheer emotional stress of the ignorance I experienced here repelled me from doing so for several days, but nonetheless, I was aware that some people have actually started making sensible points and it seemed cheap to abandon the discussion only after people stop being entirely unreasonable.

Then I come here and I see just on the latest page the same talking heads making the same tired points again and again even though they have been responded to and broken down clearly and concisely so many times just by me alone, to say nothing of other people. You people who do this, you're not looking for a discussion. A discussion does not entail you asking me why wearing women's clothes is humiliating if it's not misogynistic, me answering in positively staggering detail, and then you asking the exact same fucking question again and again. What you're looking for is validation. You've already come to a conclusion, you've experienced your knee-jerk reaction and now you just want a venue where you can passive-aggressively state it over and over again until it's finally the last word, so you can turn around and say "See? No answer."

What disappointed me most about this thread is the hostile, exclusionary attitude of people who by their very lifestyles should really know better. Be they transgendered or simply sexually expressive in this sexually repressive world. How easy is it for those outside of this little kingdom of kink in which we live to judge each and every one of you? The submissives - why be submissive? Why be "ashamed"? The chaste - why wait for permission for your orgasm? Why do you find your sexuality so humiliating? The dommes - why do you hate men? Why do you think you are superior? Kink is so easy to view through a psychologically fractured lens, especially from an outside perspective. How easy it is for people to decide what YOU feel and project that against you endlessly.

Yet when I bare my soul to you and show you what it means to love and adore women so much that you not only need to submit to them, you need to *become* like them, what do you see but an excuse to deliberately misinterpret my words over and over again in pursuit of a silly political agenda that you figured out at least five pages back doesn't really apply? Even when others like me join the fray, still no change. Still nothing learned. Still nothing original to say but these ridiculous armchair psychoanalyses. An apple is an orange because I said so and it doesn't matter how many apples tell me different because I already made up my mind. Is this the sexually open mindset? You may have your kinks but only if they meet with MY approval? Is this a shared love for fetish? Or merely a club to celebrate the status quo?

You're all so fixated with these pedantic little squabbles about what constitutes sub or humiliation or whatever other little technicalities you can squirrel away to avoid the actual topic itself. It shouldn't require so much weaselling simply to demonstrate this apparently obvious fact you tout. Nor should it be this difficult to wrap your minds about the simple definitions those like me are working under, irrespective of what language you want to use to frame it. It doesn't matter whether you call it topping from the bottom or grovelling or what the hell ever. If you understand the sentiment, the dictionary battle becomes nothing but a means to delay reaching a point of mutual understanding.

The only time people find it this hard to learn is when they don't want to learn. You can only hear and deliberately ignore the same thing so many times before that becomes clear. So I don't think I'll be making the points I wanted to make, even though I had some material already written down. I've come to realise all I'm doing is playing your game. And this isn't a game. My desires may not be invalidated simply because you don't understand or approve of them. If you want to speculate on some nefarious hidden motive? Fine. But I let history stand as its own witness. None of you who still cling to this divisive attitude can justify it without simply making the same points over and over again while deliberately ignoring the rebuttals that I took the trouble to repeat dozens and dozens of times.

So when you (the naysayers) come up with an argument that actually acknowledges what I have already said in response to your previous ones - then maybe we'll talk. Until then, my role as an enabler for you talking to yourself seems to be superfluous. You seem quite capable of doing that entirely by yourself. I'm done doing the same. At the end of the day, if you can't justify your accusations without having to side-step the information that is being given to you, that says a great deal more about how reasonable and fair you are capable of being than all your cute little digs and spiteful undertones. People don't argue with their fingers stuck in their ears if they really have something honest to say.

Girls can dress as dominant girls
Boys can dress as dominant boys
Girls can dress as dominant boys
Boys can dress as dominant girls
Girls can dress as submissive girls
Boys can dress as submissive boys
Girls can dress as submissive boys

But boys cannot dress as submissive girls?

You want to talk about sexism? I'm not the one telling you what you can wear lest you be judged on why you wear it. Nobody in the sissy gender ever tried to be that exclusionary. You are the sexist ones. Thanks to those who at least attempted to take this discussion seriously. I regret that I am too jaded to give your posts the time they deserved. Goodbye.


< Message edited by Mxybunny -- 12/2/2013 6:28:51 PM >

(in reply to JetOnly)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/2/2013 10:21:23 PM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Oh you can dress as a submissive girl all you want. No one was ever arguing that. What was at issue was what kinky feelings of humiliation affecting a feminine presentation created.

If you are humiliated by the mere act of presenting as a female, then you will encounter resistance in the vast majority of Female Dominants. No matter how much you try to convince them that it is all just harmless non-misogynistic fun.

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to Mxybunny)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/3/2013 11:30:53 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		Sigh.

Mxybunny, I tried to give an example to help facilitate your thread. But I must say that you don't help your cause much when you keep coming back with these angry tirades.

This is the internet. You'll never be able to make everyone see things the way that you do. So state your case once, and keep it moving. No need to keep arguing with those who don't agree with you. Just agree to disagree and move on.

IMO, when you post LOOOOOOOONNNNGGGGG angry, condescending tirades, you make yourself look bad, and I believe you're better than that.

(in reply to Mxybunny)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/3/2013 2:33:19 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

No need to keep arguing with those who don't agree with you.


You should only keep arguing with those who do agree with you?

I must say, he still looks much more frustrated than anything else. Also, he's been criticised for saying too little at some times in this thread and too much in other places.



_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/3/2013 2:35:32 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world
except for LolaLa-la-la-la Lola

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/3/2013 2:41:01 PM   
JetOnly


Posts: 78
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world
except for LolaLa-la-la-la Lola

:) yeah Im singing to myself now!!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Forced fem - Dommes what do you like about it?? - 12/3/2013 2:42:13 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		and you've been talking in your sleep.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to JetOnly)
Profile   Post #: 220
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