Plumbing the Depths

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puella -> Plumbing the Depths (7/3/2006 8:25:04 PM)
I certainly have my own opinions on this question I am going to ask, but I was hoping to get some other peoples' thoughts on it as well, if I may... Are there places within yourself that you can go to and not be able come back from unchanged, if at all? Are there depths you can plunge into from which you can not resurface? Are there times when you can be so broken, there is no fixing? Do you think that by willingly and eagerly going to those places, no matter if the motivation is a good one, that you have sort of sealed your fate in the clutches of their profoundity?

SusanofO -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/3/2006 8:34:28 PM)
I might as welll confess to this. I have been taking anti-depressants (and pretty high doses of them) for over 28 years. Unipolar depression that has caused several suicides, for several generations, runs on my father's side of the family. If I stop taking my anti-depressants for more than about 5 days, I can plunge into a darkness so deep almost nobody can get me back and it can take weeks before I feel "normal" again. Hence, I never (anymore) go off the pills. It's completely chemical deprssion or genetic or whatever one calls it. I don't have "issues" and don't need a counsellor. I am seeing one now, but for other reasons - a grief counsellor bcause my husband passed away in February). I need the meds and really was taken aback and internally freaked out a few years ago when some Dom I'd just met who didn't know me well at all suggested he could "fix me right up" by taking me off the meds and giving me some herbal alternative medicines. I thought that was quite presumptious. I said "thanks but no thanks." -Suzanne

sharainks -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/3/2006 8:35:44 PM)
There are places I can go, or pretty much anyone can go within themselves where they come back with some hard solid truths and reality that are not always easy to take. There are places within oneself that hurt no matter how many years you spend trying to get over it. Eventually by visiting them enough they can lead to growth. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, or so I hear.

KenDckey -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/3/2006 8:55:10 PM)
In December my depression and PTSD kicks in. On Christmas Eve,1969 I had to hold a baby covered in his dad's brains (dad's head had been blown off). On Christmas Day, 1984 I had to notify a lady and her 4 children (all preschoolers) that dad wasn't coming home again, that he had died. They wanted to know if I knew him. Due to military service, I missed 8 Christmases with my children. Christmas becomes a very sad time for me and it recurrs every year. The only thing that keeps me sane is going around town in my santa suit passing out candy and toys (yeah I buy toys all year long for this). I go to peoples homes, especially those whose children are mentally deficient. there is nothing like the joy in a child who has santa pay him a personal visit. We all have our ghosts from the past. The key is learning how to live with them.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/3/2006 9:31:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: puella Are there places within yourself that you can go to and not be able come back from unchanged, if at all? Are there depths you can plunge into from which you can not resurface? Are there times when you can be so broken, there is no fixing? Do you think that by willingly and eagerly going to those places, no matter if the motivation is a good one, that you have sort of sealed your fate in the clutches of their profoundity? While there are certainly experiences from which there is no returning unchanged (you can't cross the same river twice and all that), I obviously haven't met anything I completely lost who I was and was not able to find my new self again. Some people become so lost they can't find themselves again for a very long term. If you believe in "other lives" or "life beyond the physical" then perhaps they can find their new selves there. If you do not believe in such possibilities, then perhaps there are people who lose themselves and never find themselves again.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/3/2006 9:56:53 PM)
What an interesting question. I believe most people can come out of most things. I say this because when Master found me, I did not think I was "fixable." He helped me rebuild, however, and I was in such a dark place I didn't think that was possible. Since then he has taken me so deeply into myself that I have changed for the better. And it has been those places I went willingly and eagerly. The former darkness was encountered because I had given up. Both were profound places. The abyss where I resided was going to be my permanent residence until Master came along. I think if he had not come along, I would not be here today. (This is not to say I was looking for a knight in shining armor to fix things; he came upon me by happenstance and saw something in me that I did not) I believe one can go so deep they lose sight of an alternative. I believe one can be so mired down in hell they think there is no other place to be. This does not mean there is no re-emergence. It just means they can not see it alone.

DominaBBW -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/3/2006 11:32:47 PM)
Damn...I thought this thread was going to be about anal training.

SusanofO -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 1:42:30 AM)
I can get philosophical about this topic because I've read books that state that we ourselves planned the "difficulties" in our own lives before we decided to be born and that we would not have done it if it was going to be impossible to deal with. This really heartened me when I read that, regardless of whether it is true, because when my first severe depression hit (I was 18) it was incapacitating. I am pretty bright, but suddenly the only way I could get through my college classes was by taking copious notes because my memory just wasn't working - I could remember almost nothing I read for very long. I also had no appetite and no interest in doing anything; everything was a supreme effort, even the simplest things. All of the color was gone from life. I became a consummate actress and smiled all the time - as far as I could tell, nobody guessed (except people who already knew) just what I really felt like. It is neither here nor there, but it is genetic; there's this thing that runs in my dad's family that has been happening for eons. He felt like he had ruined my life when this all started, but it was not his fault this happened (he's my dad, how could I ever blame him)? At the time, the medications on the market had terrible side effects that no longer are really a problem today (weight gain, really bad dry mouth, zero sex drive) and I must have tried 10 different ones. It just didn't seem to end - I'd start feeling better for months and them - Wham! it would hit me again for no apparent reason. I was horribly self-conscious about it and didn't date anyone until I was a senior because I was afraid guys would think I was weird, somehow. I dated a really nice guy for 3 years starting my senior year, but he moved to California to go to law school, and we drifted apart. The ups and downs went on for years (6 to be exact). I just kept hanging in there. My mother wanted me to drop out of college and go to a two year vocational school or a commercial art school, because she hated to see me suffering, but my father wouldn't let me drop out - he really encouraged me and told me just to stay there. He thought a bachelor's degree was important to have. So I stayed in, and graduated Magna Cum Laude, and got the highest paid job in my graduating class in the business college (in a class of over 800). I also was the very first intern in the intenship program. I never told a soul (including any of my teachers) that I was on any kind of medication or had seen doctors about it - I was afraid of what they would think. My mother also told me not to tell anyone (she had "issues" with it I guess). Of course some of my friends knew, but it wasn't something I ever felt good about discussing. To this day I am not quite sure why the severity if what I was feeling seemed to lessen, but I am very glad it did. I am convinced that was supposed to happen to me for some reason and to this day I am not sure what it is. This happened way before anyone talked about this kind of stuff on talk shows. I do have a lot more sympathy for people who experience severe sadness, for whatever reason - and just hate it when I hear people say things to them like:"Buck up" if they are seriously depressed (not helpful). Also, even if my husband didn't want children and couldn't give them to me, I would not have wanted to pass on these genes. I wouldn't wish that experience on my worst enemy. Adoption was always my only option. I am not sure I ever "came back" from having had that experience. It profoundly changed my life and my outlook. I don't take as much for granted as I did when I was young. I am thankful for little things more than I was before that happened; I can remember being grateful for just being able to drag myself out of bed. It is good for me to remind myself just how bad things once were, when and if I start wishing things would happen for me faster, or wish i was Angelina Jolie instead of who I am, etc.(because I know everyone probably has days they wish they had somebody else's life). I am also really really glad it's over (and has been, for a long time). But I think there are things that happen that change you forever - but they don't have to make life unliveable - even though it might seem that way at the time - and I know it can really seem that way and it really stinks (my opinion only). Hang in there (whatever it is), puella. Tommorrow really is another day - it might not be better, but sooner or later, something will make it get better (promise). -Susan

louiseatlast -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 6:03:18 AM)
Learn how to recognise the fears, blocks and false beliefs you hold. Then when you come across them and can see them, plunge into them. It can be seriously scary, you come out changed, for ever, for better. The world changes too, you see it a different way. I used NLP to do this, and started with small things like leaving a job where i was stuck that wasn't doing me any good, and ended up looking at my 'biggie', the complete lack of self identity and confidence, which never showed on the outside. It nearly killed me, (yes, i do mean that literally) and i had a therapist in tow when i decided to plunge into that one. She cried more than i did, and threatened to report me to my GP as a potential suicide. I lost her as quick as i could and got on with it. A scary scary ride, the BDSM community helped me when i needed it and thankfully at the moment of crisis found my Mistress who helped me save my life. We got through it, and i am now a whole and living person. I certainly gained a lot from going through that process and changed beyond belief. lou

Tikkiee -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 6:40:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: puella I certainly have my own opinions on this question I am going to ask, but I was hoping to get some other peoples' thoughts on it as well, if I may... Are there places within yourself that you can go to and not be able come back from unchanged, if at all? Are there depths you can plunge into from which you can not resurface? Are there times when you can be so broken, there is no fixing? Do you think that by willingly and eagerly going to those places, no matter if the motivation is a good one, that you have sort of sealed your fate in the clutches of their profoundity? Yes to all your questions. Not going to elaborate though.

puella -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 7:04:57 AM)
Thank you Cassandra, and no need to! Thank you to everyone who is sharing very personal things here... It is greatly appreciated and probably very helpful to a lot of people.

realmanfordomme -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 7:11:56 AM)
HUH?

sleazybutterfly -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 7:34:48 AM)
I have plunged into those places probably several times in my life. Sometimes, I would walk around and I was in that place..but nobody knew it. That is when I wasn't sure who I was, and I would do things normally, I never would have. My mind was a different place to make those things ok. Before my rape, I didn't just "have sex" I didn't have a lot of experience. After it, I went someplace in my mind and started having a lot of it. It was either me punishing myself, or me trying to use like I had been (or me just looking for a guy to like me..to cuddle). I look back now and can see that is where my mind was, but at the time I didn't even see the difference in myself other than a glimpse in the mirror once in a great while when I would just stand there, look at myself and try to figure out who the hell this was. I have went into parts of my mind before.... probably none worse than during the deep depression earlier this year. Before, I always came out of it very short-term. That time (cutting and all) I really didn't think I would find myself again. It was hard to even catch that glimpse of me. My mind was taking me someplace else, I don't think I will ever know where..I just know I don't want to go back. I do agree with Susan, I have read books on that. I also have a faith that tells me that I won't ever get more than I can take. So when something happens and I really think this will be the end of me, I take a hold of that and it pulls me thru every time. I may sink for a bit, I may still hurt or get very depressed, but I know I will come back. I have often wondered (after the worst time) just how much it would take for me not to "come back". I went to a hospital type of place during that time, it wasn't a mental hospital...but a transition type of home. I knew that I didn't belong there, I was still there enough for that, or enough to know I was coming back from wherever I had been. I have sat and thought though.. what went off for a person to make them end up not coming back? what was so bad? what would it take for me? I sometimes do wonder just how far any of us are from that moment..that "snap" that lets us part with reality and not return. I know that I was close (too close) and that scares me some, yet I think it is also good because I know now that I can come back and it gives me a strength and a resolve to get thru things that probably wasn't there before. Sometimes I think I still go into myself and rest (not sure if that makes sense)but I always find my way out. I prefer to call it meditating rather than "leaving". I think if I allow myself that, the other won't be needed. andrea (ticia)

RavenMuse -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 7:40:54 AM)
Anything that touches us deeply can change us. Sometimes for the better, othertimes not.

sublizzie -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 8:05:55 AM)
I think we each change every day of our lives through each experience we go through. When we deliberately, or otherwise, go into the "dark" places within ourselves we see things that we may or may not like about ourselves. We may need help to deal with the ones we do not like, but either way we are changed just by the looking. We can never go back to what we were earlier in our lives. It's just not possible. We can choose to use those experiences to become better people. It may be more difficult with some of them, but it is possible if we choose to make it so.

kyraofMists -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 8:35:54 AM)
Reading these questions today, my answers are different than they would have been several years ago. There are things that happen in our lives that change us irrevocably. Sometimes those things are so subtle that you take no notice at the time, such as saying hello to a new nick that popped into a chat room. Other times they are as obvious as an F5 tornado tearing through your life and you know that things will not be the same. However, I believe that as long as you don’t quit, there is always hope. You and your life may be altered completely, but it is still a life worth living. Knight's kyra

juliaoceania -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 9:30:42 AM)
Wow Puella, always the deep questions from you... Yes there are places you can go to deep inside that there can be no coming back from without being irrevocably changed by it. There are places inside of one that are already broken that we do not acknowledge consciously because to do so is too damn painful. There comes a time for some of us that we must go to those places that are broken if we are to ever fulfill our personal growth. I think the possiblity of always coming back from these places exists, but not all choose to, because to come back takes such hard work and determination that most people would not choose to go there unless they had to. You have a choice, adapt or die.. change or perish. This is on not only a physical plane, but an emotional one as well. About two years ago I went through something that I consider going back to the most painful period of my life and reliving that part of myself that had been broken so long ago. It was a time of my life I was faced with a choice, either go back or live with depression and anxiety for the rest of my life... I decided to go back. I felt at times it would destroy me and it did not take weeks or months... it took 2 years to heal... the result is this: I am a stronger, more confident, more capable human being attempting to live up to my potential. Im glad I went back there, even though at times I wondered if I could ever come back... and I will never be the same.

babysburnin -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/4/2006 12:37:14 PM)
Hi Puella, As many have said, this is a question that raises philosophical issues as well as emotional and intellectual issues. Before I became a mother, I was a strong believer in nuture as opposed to nature. After having my child, I realized that my child had a definate personality, and in retrospect - it was even apparent in the womb. The point is, I personally believe we "are who we are". I have this crazy theory that upon conception, we have a vision of our life - a flash that shows what will occur. When we are on the "right" path - we feel it, and when we are on the "wrong" path - we feel it. I think both paths include hurts, and all detours lead back to "The Path". I will go even deeper to say, I believe we choose to have the human experience - because when combined with the universal energy, there is an absence of those "rough" feelings - it's a treat, the good and the bad. I've taken the long way around answering your question... I believe you are who you are, never really changed (your soul never really altered), but the human experience with the good and bad gives you insight into your soul. So - there is always coming back - even when there is no light in sight.

JessieMe -> RE: Plumbing the Depths (7/5/2006 3:38:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominaBBW Damn...I thought this thread was going to be about anal training. OMG.. I read this at 5:30am and had to actually cover my mouth so as not to wake the house with my laughter. After having just broken off relationship with Master yesterday (happy independence day, right?).. I needed the laugh.. thank you so much Domina :)

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