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YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 5:37:00 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Okay, I am all for fair and humane treatment of animals, and yes I hunt. However, considering that animals, with few possible exceptions, do not have the higher reasoning ability of humans (I admit, that ability is lacking in some humans) and therefore should not be considered as equals to humans.

However, some animal rights group thinks otherwise.

quote:

US lawsuit claims chimpanzees are 'legal persons'

The animal rights group The Nonhuman Rights Project has filed a lawsuit in the United States to establish a chimpanzee as a "legal person".

The group's president, Steve Wise, told the BBC Radio 4's Today programme that he is specifically filing lawsuits on behalf of the "four surviving chimpanzees in the state of New York" so that they have the right to no longer be "imprisoned".

"We are asking the courts to remove them to a sanctuary," where they would be "as free as they can be in North America".

He added: "We have consciously modelled [the lawsuit] upon the way both British and American courts dealt with black slaves in the 18th and 19th centuries who sought freedom."



Alright, I have heard we share something like 95% of our DNA with chimps, but that 5% is a big difference. We share 65% of our DNA with some species of fish, do we want to make them people too?

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 8:06:03 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Animal care has been an issue. Some places should be shut down. And animal removed.

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 8:07:33 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, I have heard we share something like 95% of our DNA with chimps, but that 5% is a big difference. We share 65% of our DNA with some species of fish, do we want to make them people too?


Only if they can vote.


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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 1:28:41 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Alright, I have heard we share something like 95% of our DNA with chimps, but that 5% is a big difference. We share 65% of our DNA with some species of fish, do we want to make them people too?

Actually, I'm going the other way...

Steamed monkey knuckles...
Chimped Beef on toast...
"Ham" and eggs...



_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 1:50:43 PM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline 		The lawsuit is IMO an absurd way to deal with simple cases of animal cruelty. Read further in the article or find another one covering the same issue and you'll find that the chimps specifically named are being kept in atrocious conditions.

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 2:20:48 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Animals not having status or standing as other than chattel is pretty well settled law, but if this does get a few animals out of horrible conditions I'd be happy.

For arguments sake, if someone were to make a quantifiable set of necessary requirements for personhood, who would score the highest... embryos, grown primates, politicians, or corporations?? 

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 4:13:11 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Okay, I am all for fair and humane treatment of animals, and yes I hunt. However, considering that animals, with few possible exceptions, do not have the higher reasoning ability of humans (I admit, that ability is lacking in some humans) and therefore should not be considered as equals to humans.

The law suite doesn't say 'people.' It says 'legal persons.' There are similar state legislative initiatives for embryos who lack higher reasoning ability as well. Once you open that door . . . see?

quote:

Alright, I have heard we share something like 95% of our DNA with chimps, but that 5% is a big difference. We share 65% of our DNA with some species of fish, do we want to make them people too?

Where is that in the Constitution? The percentage quantity of DNA required to be a legal person?

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/4/2013 4:15:40 PM >

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 4:41:46 PM   
Raijin


Posts: 13
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, I have heard we share something like 95% of our DNA with chimps, but that 5% is a big difference. We share 65% of our DNA with some species of fish, do we want to make them people too?


Only if they can vote.


what makes you think they don't vote congress is run by them and our presidents model themselves after them ===> case in point Bush compairison

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 5:54:25 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Okay, I am all for fair and humane treatment of animals, and yes I hunt. However, considering that animals, with few possible exceptions, do not have the higher reasoning ability of humans (I admit, that ability is lacking in some humans) and therefore should not be considered as equals to humans.

However, some animal rights group thinks otherwise.

quote:

US lawsuit claims chimpanzees are 'legal persons'

The animal rights group The Nonhuman Rights Project has filed a lawsuit in the United States to establish a chimpanzee as a "legal person".

The group's president, Steve Wise, told the BBC Radio 4's Today programme that he is specifically filing lawsuits on behalf of the "four surviving chimpanzees in the state of New York" so that they have the right to no longer be "imprisoned".

"We are asking the courts to remove them to a sanctuary," where they would be "as free as they can be in North America".

He added: "We have consciously modelled [the lawsuit] upon the way both British and American courts dealt with black slaves in the 18th and 19th centuries who sought freedom."



Alright, I have heard we share something like 95% of our DNA with chimps, but that 5% is a big difference. We share 65% of our DNA with some species of fish, do we want to make them people too?


I currently share 54% with monkeys but....I"m willing to share more for cash.

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 6:13:42 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raijin
what makes you think they don't vote congress is run by them and our presidents model themselves after them ===> case in point Bush compairison

If all Presidents model themselves after chimps then I dare you to make the same comparison with Obama and see what it gets you.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Raijin)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 6:16:32 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It seems to me that science has shown that some studied animals have brains that are little different from ours except in degrees of sophistication. They are able to reason…make and use tools… recognize the meaning of self and death. They certainly have the same emotions as we do from fear, anger, and sorrow to joy and devotion.

So…where do we draw the line… Do we kill and eat our own intellectually disabled. Do civilized people cage…abuse…kill…and eat those that are simply not as smart as they, at least when there is an alternative?

Personally I am not a fanatic over this… I understand we must eat to survive and this will mean killing…BUT… I believe when we can we should protect all life. By protecting the creatures around us we protect ourselves and our future on this earth.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/4/2013 6:55:20 PM >

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 7:46:42 PM   
Raijin


Posts: 13
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		well just remember you asked for it, in Obama's case he a special breed apart of the primates
http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/9/8/6/9/4/7/obama-donkey-59981339370.jpeg

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RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 8:32:24 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raijin

well just remember you asked for it, in Obama's case he a special breed apart of the primates
http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/9/8/6/9/4/7/obama-donkey-59981339370.jpeg

Ok. That's funny but not even close to what I was asking for. I'll give you a C+.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Raijin)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: YOu have got to be kidding! - 12/4/2013 8:50:21 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
"Ham" and eggs...

Oh, c'mon. Nobody got that joke?...Really?...NASA?...Project Mercury?...No?...Nothing?

I am SO disappointed with the space geeks around here.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 14
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