RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death

RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

TheHeretic -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 10:32:08 AM)
I have to disagree, Butch. These are people who have taken an oath to protect and serve, are empowered with badges and authority in order to do that, and they should be held to a higher standard when they abuse the power they are entrusted with. Sometimes cops need to get physical. I get that. It's a part of the job, and there is a little bit of benefit of the doubt that may need to be granted to them on it. When we leave that realm, as we so clearly have here, then I think committing such acts under the color of authority needs to carry additional penalties.

EdBowie -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 11:25:11 AM)
Ahhh... the Alice in Wonderland approach to rational adult discourse.... just make up the meanings of words with no regard to logic, and wrap them in irrational notions like US Supreme Court rulings that 'vary from state to state'. And just trivialize what goes on in real police states like South and Central American death squads and the various secret police around the world, by pretending that what goes on against the constitution in the US (and openly in your country), as being exactly the same thing, with capital letters. Yeah, great way to find a solution... by stringing together as many logical fallacies as possible to obscure the issues. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 the OP asked for peoples thoughts, as I said, I gave mine.. I don't give a dam about the terminology (which can vary state to state).. its a violation of peoples rights & further evidence of the Police State the US has become.. enjoy..

EdBowie -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 12:00:57 PM)
There are 2 factors already in place... the severity of a crime is increased by statute if the victim of a violent crime is an officer, and increased if an officer does something wrong using their job as leverage - 'under color of authority'... shaking someone down for example. The nexus of those is not the officer, but the job. When an officer robs a bank, or plans to murder their spouse, they aren't considered to be operating within the boundaries of the job... they are 'off the chain' so to speak. It's these cases of police brutality amounting to a felony that blur the lines. Nobody should be dead or comatose at the end of an encounter such as this one. I can see why some people feel that extra punishment is due. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Amazing how isolated incidents...most likely lower than in the general population...bring out the hang-um high bunch. To me they should be treated as any accused and if convicted receive the same sentence. They do not deserve a lighter OR more stringent treatment. Their profession should make no difference in sentencing. It is the person being prosecuted for a crime not the profession of law enforcement. Butch

tj444 -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 12:17:20 PM)
the OP asked for peoples thoughts on what these cops did, the OP did not ask for solutions nor did I claim I had any (solutions are up to Americans when they finally have had enough to do something real about it).. Lets see.. NSA spying, secret FISA courts, secret warrants, what these goon cops did (and other cops doing illegal body cavity searches, various other incidents I already pointed out), the Patriot Act, unlimited detention with no charges or legal representation & no phone call to your family and held for however long they want, forfeiture of cash & assets with no charges, TSA stopping drivers in certain states (& others in the future) and asking them for their "papers"/citizenship, yup.. if it looks & acts like a Police State it is a Police State!.. and I am not alone in that opinion.. http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/police-state/the-very-definition-of-a-police-state/ quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Ahhh... the Alice in Wonderland approach to rational adult discourse.... just make up the meanings of words with no regard to logic, and wrap them in irrational notions like US Supreme Court rulings that 'vary from state to state'. And just trivialize what goes on in real police states like South and Central American death squads and the various secret police around the world, by pretending that what goes on against the constitution in the US (and openly in your country), as being exactly the same thing, with capital letters. Yeah, great way to find a solution... by stringing together as many logical fallacies as possible to obscure the issues. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 the OP asked for peoples thoughts, as I said, I gave mine.. I don't give a dam about the terminology (which can vary state to state).. its a violation of peoples rights & further evidence of the Police State the US has become.. enjoy..

EdBowie -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 1:52:47 PM)
The very things that your country's cops carry out without any sanctions, because it is the law of the land that your cops can stop and harass for any reason, or no reason... are the very things that the US Supreme Court has forbidden in the US, and that cities have to pay out millions in lawsuits when they are caught. For your society, they are endorsed as OK as long as it's against the indigenous peoples etc. The sort of stuff that the US fights to move away from is still business as usual for you. I've looked back at your posts, and I see that many people have repeatedly explained the basic concepts of US law to you, including at least one attorney, and you persist in pretending to not know the basics, and make up these fake definitions over and over. Now that you've sunk to dismissing and trivializing the mass atrocities carried out in real police states, you've pretty much let the mask drop, and won't be getting any more play out of me. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 the OP asked for peoples thoughts on what these cops did, the OP did not ask for solutions nor did I claim I had any (solutions are up to Americans when they finally have had enough to do something real about it).. Lets see.. NSA spying, secret FISA courts, secret warrants, what these goon cops did (and other cops doing illegal body cavity searches, various other incidents I already pointed out), the Patriot Act, unlimited detention with no charges or legal representation & no phone call to your family and held for however long they want, forfeiture of cash & assets with no charges, TSA stopping drivers in certain states (& others in the future) and asking them for their "papers"/citizenship, yup.. if it looks & acts like a Police State it is a Police State!.. and I am not alone in that opinion.. http://fresnocriminaldefense.com/police-state/the-very-definition-of-a-police-state/ quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Ahhh... the Alice in Wonderland approach to rational adult discourse.... just make up the meanings of words with no regard to logic, and wrap them in irrational notions like US Supreme Court rulings that 'vary from state to state'. And just trivialize what goes on in real police states like South and Central American death squads and the various secret police around the world, by pretending that what goes on against the constitution in the US (and openly in your country), as being exactly the same thing, with capital letters. Yeah, great way to find a solution... by stringing together as many logical fallacies as possible to obscure the issues. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 the OP asked for peoples thoughts, as I said, I gave mine.. I don't give a dam about the terminology (which can vary state to state).. its a violation of peoples rights & further evidence of the Police State the US has become.. enjoy..

kdsub -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 6:57:05 PM)
quote: I have to disagree, Butch. These are people who have taken an oath to protect and serve, are empowered with badges and authority in order to do that, and they should be held to a higher standard when they abuse the power they are entrusted with. I do understand what both you and Ed are saying and I don't think we are really saying different things. If the standard is set with their employment, and it should be, then when they break that standard they should be punished accordingly. But it should not be because they are police officers but only because they broke the law. Butch

TheHeretic -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 8:09:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub But it should not be because they are police officers but only because they broke the law. No. We deal with the crime they committed, and we carry it above and beyond in how they are punished because they have betrayed their oath and abused the power entrusted to them. That in itself is an additional crime, or a special circumstance.

EdBowie -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 8:14:03 PM)
Like hate crimes? quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic No. We deal with the crime they committed, and we carry it above and beyond in how they are punished because they have betrayed their oath and abused the power entrusted to them. That in itself is an additional crime, or a special circumstance.

TheHeretic -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 8:22:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Like hate crimes? Not the example I'd have gone with, since I disagree with the whole concept of those, but yeah.

EdBowie -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 8:55:00 PM)
It is one of those situations, where the answers don't line up neatly. quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Like hate crimes? Not the example I'd have gone with, since I disagree with the whole concept of those, but yeah.

TheHeretic -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 9:04:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie It is one of those situations, where the answers don't line up neatly. More a case of apples and oranges. Hate crimes involve the the thoughts and beliefs someone holds, while the other is related to a specific role played in society by the perpetrator. Both would be examples of a special circumstance that enhances the penalty for a crime, but the analogy breaks beyond that.

Phydeaux -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (12/8/2013 11:30:19 PM)
I hate that police get free donuts I hate that police can confiscate your phone if you film them. I'm all in favor of law and order.. but the state and our statist (typically dem) masters have gotten out of hand.

SadistDave -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (1/14/2014 11:31:42 PM)
Manuel Ramos - Not Guilty Jay Cicnelli - Not Guilty Joseph Wolfe - Charges Dropped -SD-

EdBowie -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (1/15/2014 9:43:52 AM)
So once again, the internet jury fails to match the actual one... quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Manuel Ramos - Not Guilty Jay Cicnelli - Not Guilty Joseph Wolfe - Charges Dropped -SD-

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (1/15/2014 6:47:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux I hate that cops get any special treatment. And I agree with you. Now here (with obvious exception) I disagree.... Kill a cop....9 times the penalty.

BamaD -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (1/15/2014 9:04:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie So once again, the internet jury fails to match the actual one... quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Manuel Ramos - Not Guilty Jay Cicnelli - Not Guilty Joseph Wolfe - Charges Dropped -SD- Happens a lot doesn't it? I would like to know what this jury knew that we don't.

TheHeretic -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (1/15/2014 9:32:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I would like to know what this jury knew that we don't. That they live in Orange County.

EdBowie -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (1/15/2014 10:02:54 PM)
Too easy, too flippant and unsatisfactory. That surveillance video is very hard to watch, knowing that a real human being's life is ebbing away in front of the camera. The first part is indefensible, the face smashing is totally out of policy, and even with a defense attorney doing a play by play, you have to wonder what real information caused the jury to override their emotions, much less the evidence. quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I would like to know what this jury knew that we don't. That they live in Orange County.

TheHeretic -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (1/15/2014 10:06:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Too easy, too flippant and unsatisfactory. Not for people familiar with Orange County.

popeye1250 -> RE: Manuel Ramos should die a horrible death (1/16/2014 12:53:21 PM)
Yeah but the lawyers in this country think *everything* should involve some type of "TRIAL" or something! It's like an old Micky Rooney movie; "Hey! Let's have a show!" They even import pirates from Somalia (and their parents) to the U.S. for a,.....TRIAL instead of putting a fucking bullet into their heads at point of capture. I wonder how much THAT trial and the expenses for that little fucking murderer's parents cost us, anyone know? Seems Pantload is all for civil and "human rights" for people 8,000 miles away but not for you or me.

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875