RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism?

RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

DesideriScuri -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/15/2013 9:49:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Thank God the first mass waves of immigrants didn't resort to terrorism or lives of crime when they got here. The situation for immigrants was not good. They were not treated well. They were not treated fairly. But, most of them busted their asses and made lives for themselves, their families, and for later generations. While it's terrible to mistreat any immigrant, it doesn't make it okay to resort to terrorism or violence in response. Even the majority of illegal immigrants are here to work and build their lives instead of becoming criminals. They have to hide (because of their illegal presence) in the shadows and can't live life as freely as a legal immigrant. Yet, they don't resort to terrorism. Many do commit crimes, and our jails are housing many. The majority, however, aren't like that. many immigrants don't resort to that now, as I said, Mexicans have a hard time (some worse than others) imo but they don't do that (at least so far).. so is it that they work harder and see a road at the end of the tunnel? or is it that the immigrants like the Tsarnaevs simply expected too much, expected it to be easy and that the roads were paved with gold? I didn't write what I did to correct your post regarding the typical immigrants. It could be that they expected things to be easier than they really are, and, as another mentioned, there may have been some mental illness in there. Couple mental illness with not being properly prepared, and there could be some bad things happen. As far as helping immigrants be productive rather than destructive, that's more on the immigrant than on us. If we're going to have to roll over and give everything to them so they don't go postal, well, let them go postal, and then they'll be taken care of for the rest of their lives (which won't likely be very long). I know you didn't say we had to give then everything. For some, though, that might be what it takes. And, I'm certainly not in favor of that. A thought just struck me: I oppose giving in to a party that threatens with violence unless the party gets it's way. Then, it hits me, that's all the Federal Government does; it threatens violence against those who aren't obedient to it. That's some fucked up shit right there.

tweakabelle -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/15/2013 11:11:13 PM)
Trying to discern the motives of the Tsarnaevs can only be a good thing. Confronted by the ghastly situation they left behind, it's easy for people to overlook the importance of why people choose such awful options, or fall into the trap of accepting superficial self serving reasons for the Tsarnaev's behaviour. The Tsarnaev's experiences as new immigrants to the USA undoubtedly fed into their radicalisation. But I wonder if they are the only relevant experiences we ought to consider .... For instance, the Chechen war was remarkable for its ferocity, with massive human rights violations and massacres committed by both sides. Personally I find it difficult to eliminate this as one factor feeding into the radicalisation of the Tsernerovs. So while I feel it's an excellent idea to examine their experiences as immigrants in this context, I don't feel that these experiences should be assumed to be the sole, exclusive reason for their radicalisation.

tweakabelle -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 12:13:20 AM)
double post

EdBowie -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 12:17:30 AM)
FR Self motivated bombers in the US have been few and far between. You have a few small groups, like FALN and ELF, a bunch of civil rights bombings and arsons, but only a handful of 'bombers'. Metesky seems to have had a grudge after being disabled in a work accident and denied support. Kazinsky was on track to living a comfortable life when he decided to drop out and bomb for whatever reason. Rudolph may have been groomed since childhood. McVeigh and Nichols claimed to be seeking revenge for injustices suffered by othersat the hands of government agents. Not much of a pattern there to extrapolate from.

FellowSlave -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 9:57:03 AM)
quote: McVeigh and Nichols claimed to be seeking revenge for injustices suffered by othersat the hands of government agents. Not much of a pattern there to extrapolate from. McVeigh had CIA handler. It is well established, we know even how he looked like. So have most terror attacks aided by FBI. We never have conclusive straight evidence, but if you stitch pieces together the terror hoax picture usually emerges. The problem why it is going on is people not paying attention, the criminal government, and the mainstream media being part of the plots. Consider this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CwTpJ1EoV6A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fySYxvV4rZA&feature=player_embedded&list=UUPLAYER_globalresearchtv#! http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/05/14/who-in-boston-bombing-story-mysteries/ http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/fbi-agents-died-fall-helicopter-va-coast http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/05/23/bost-m23.html http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/05/20/official-story-has-odd-wrinkles-a-pack-of-questions-about-the-boston-bombing-backpacks/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rAuxdN70g1I#! http://www.salon.com/2013/10/02/ibragim_todashevs_girlfriend_held_in_solitary/ http://rt.com/usa/tsarnaev-brothers-parents-innocent-124/ Quite a story, and FBI asked for public help to identify who people in the surveillance video were.

sloguy02246 -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 10:13:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FellowSlave quote: McVeigh and Nichols claimed to be seeking revenge for injustices suffered by othersat the hands of government agents. Not much of a pattern there to extrapolate from. McVeigh had CIA handler. It is well established, we know even how he looked like. So have most terror attacks aided by FBI. We never have conclusive straight evidence, but if you stitch pieces together the terror hoax picture usually emerges. The problem why it is going on is people not paying attention, the criminal government, and the mainstream media being part of the plots. Consider this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CwTpJ1EoV6A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fySYxvV4rZA&feature=player_embedded&list=UUPLAYER_globalresearchtv#! http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/05/14/who-in-boston-bombing-story-mysteries/ http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/fbi-agents-died-fall-helicopter-va-coast http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/05/23/bost-m23.html http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/05/20/official-story-has-odd-wrinkles-a-pack-of-questions-about-the-boston-bombing-backpacks/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rAuxdN70g1I#! http://www.salon.com/2013/10/02/ibragim_todashevs_girlfriend_held_in_solitary/ http://rt.com/usa/tsarnaev-brothers-parents-innocent-124/ Quite a story, and FBI asked for public help to identify who people in the surveillance video were. Oh, dude! Really? That's your explanation for the Tsarnaev's actions and what McVeigh did? (Looks around for the turnip truck.) [sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]

stef -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 10:25:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FellowSlave McVeigh had CIA handler. Was it Obama?

sloguy02246 -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 10:41:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: FellowSlave McVeigh had CIA handler. Was it Obama? Well, let's examine the facts. Hmm... If we "stitch pieces together" as FellowSlave says we should, we see that the OK city bombing was in 1995 at the same time Obama was a community organizer and a known CIA operative, so, oh my god, yes! The time line is a perfect match! Obama must have been the one who gave the "go" order to McVeigh. Problem solved!

stef -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 10:48:02 AM)
I knew it! THANKS OBAMA!

tj444 -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 10:56:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri It could be that they expected things to be easier than they really are, and, as another mentioned, there may have been some mental illness in there. Couple mental illness with not being properly prepared, and there could be some bad things happen. As far as helping immigrants be productive rather than destructive, that's more on the immigrant than on us. If we're going to have to roll over and give everything to them so they don't go postal, well, let them go postal, and then they'll be taken care of for the rest of their lives (which won't likely be very long). I know you didn't say we had to give then everything. For some, though, that might be what it takes. And, I'm certainly not in favor of that. A thought just struck me: I oppose giving in to a party that threatens with violence unless the party gets it's way. Then, it hits me, that's all the Federal Government does; it threatens violence against those who aren't obedient to it. That's some fucked up shit right there. the mental thing was just with one brother tho, not both.. and I am not of the opinion that those "voices" told the older brother to bomb people, I think it was the whole extreme religious thing combined with not getting what he wanted (to be a boxing champ/Olympic contender).. and after reading the link Angelika posted.. the parents are (from the accounts) blatant liars, telling various stories of why they came to the US (and somehow getting asylum even tho there was no evidence of their claims to qualify).. imo they came cuz they thought they would get rich and have it easy.. from that link- “"there is still another account of why the Tsarnaevs wanted to go to America, and it, too, has nothing to do with persecution. "We watched all these films, saw how beautiful Hollywood was,” said Nurmenov. “It seemed that life was good there. [Anzor] told me, ‘Let’s go to America. Why should we sit here and rust?’ One day I found out that he was going away. He said, ‘You can get a visa to America. It’s easy.’ And then later he left.” " So when they found out it wasn't that easy, they turned on their adopted country (cuz they needed to put the blame for their collective failures on something instead of looking in the mirror).. And I am not saying immigrants should be given everything on a silver platter but I am not sure what is actually available to those that have language and culture differences as a major barrier.. At this point, I think even if everything possible had been given to this family, they still would have been ungrateful failures with the same results (unfortunately).. The majority of immigrants aren't like them, but now what this family of nutbars have done means legit refugees and immigrants have it a lot harder to qualify for a visa..

FellowSlave -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 11:30:56 AM)
quote: Well, let's examine the facts. Hmm... If we "stitch pieces together" as FellowSlave says we should, we see that the OK city bombing was in 1995 at the same time Obama was a community organizer and a known CIA operative, so, oh my god, yes! The time line is a perfect match! Obama must have been the one who gave the "go" order to McVeigh. Problem solved! Why do you muddy waters, what Obama has to do with this? It was all over the news when the bombing occurred including the portrait that two men rented the Ryder truck and drove it to the building. One of them then mysteriously disappeared (and he was blacked out from the news), and all building surveillance videos became unavailable (even for the court proceedings) due to "national security).

EdBowie -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 11:31:21 AM)
Of course it was... he's the one with the time machine, Hillary has the cancer ray. quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: FellowSlave McVeigh had CIA handler. Was it Obama?

stef -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 12:16:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FellowSlave Why do you muddy waters, what Obama has to do with this? It was all over the news when the bombing occurred including the portrait that two men rented the Ryder truck and drove it to the building. One of them then mysteriously disappeared (and he was blacked out from the news), and all building surveillance videos became unavailable (even for the court proceedings) due to "national security). Why are you trying to hide Obama's involvement in this? WHO DO YOU WORK FOR!?!?!?

vincentML -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 3:26:49 PM)
quote: the mental thing was just with one brother tho, not both.. and I am not of the opinion that those "voices" told the older brother to bomb people, omg, tj . . . did you hear them too? [:D]

tj444 -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 3:36:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: the mental thing was just with one brother tho, not both.. and I am not of the opinion that those "voices" told the older brother to bomb people, omg, tj . . . did you hear them too? [:D] ha. ha. ha. very funny.. [&:] [:D] no, but the older brother was going on about US interference in other countries, blah, blah, blah as his reason for hating the US & jihad.. that don't sound like no freaky crazy voices to me, that sounds like nutbar religious extremism, in great part taught to him by his dear nutbar shrew momma..

DesideriScuri -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 4:49:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri It could be that they expected things to be easier than they really are, and, as another mentioned, there may have been some mental illness in there. Couple mental illness with not being properly prepared, and there could be some bad things happen. As far as helping immigrants be productive rather than destructive, that's more on the immigrant than on us. If we're going to have to roll over and give everything to them so they don't go postal, well, let them go postal, and then they'll be taken care of for the rest of their lives (which won't likely be very long). I know you didn't say we had to give then everything. For some, though, that might be what it takes. And, I'm certainly not in favor of that. A thought just struck me: I oppose giving in to a party that threatens with violence unless the party gets it's way. Then, it hits me, that's all the Federal Government does; it threatens violence against those who aren't obedient to it. That's some fucked up shit right there. the mental thing was just with one brother tho, not both.. and I am not of the opinion that those "voices" told the older brother to bomb people, I think it was the whole extreme religious thing combined with not getting what he wanted (to be a boxing champ/Olympic contender).. What? He coulda been a contenda? [:D] quote: and after reading the link Angelika posted.. the parents are (from the accounts) blatant liars, telling various stories of why they came to the US (and somehow getting asylum even tho there was no evidence of their claims to qualify).. imo they came cuz they thought they would get rich and have it easy.. from that link- “"there is still another account of why the Tsarnaevs wanted to go to America, and it, too, has nothing to do with persecution. "We watched all these films, saw how beautiful Hollywood was,” said Nurmenov. “It seemed that life was good there. [Anzor] told me, ‘Let’s go to America. Why should we sit here and rust?’ One day I found out that he was going away. He said, ‘You can get a visa to America. It’s easy.’ And then later he left.” " So when they found out it wasn't that easy, they turned on their adopted country (cuz they needed to put the blame for their collective failures on something instead of looking in the mirror).. And I am not saying immigrants should be given everything on a silver platter but I am not sure what is actually available to those that have language and culture differences as a major barrier.. At this point, I think even if everything possible had been given to this family, they still would have been ungrateful failures with the same results (unfortunately).. The majority of immigrants aren't like them, but now what this family of nutbars have done means legit refugees and immigrants have it a lot harder to qualify for a visa.. Now, if only we could easily discern the Almond Joys from the Mounds, we'd be all set. The Visa situation was fucked up before the Tsarnaev's, and they certainly didn't help it. This should serve as fodder in the case against completely open borders.

graceadieu -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/16/2013 9:51:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Thank God the first mass waves of immigrants didn't resort to terrorism or lives of crime when they got here. "They're all criminals" is one of the classic complaints about immigrants since forever. The Irish, the Italians, the Russians, the Chinese, Mexicans, they were/are stereotyped as being criminals, and that used as justification for treating them badly. Of course, some of each group were. The Mafia is a real thing, gangs like MS-13, terrorist groups that recruit here, etc. But then, of course there are home-grown American children of native-born citizens who still resort to crime and terrorism, too. We just don't usually call people like Adam Lanza or Scott Roeder terrorists.

EdBowie -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/17/2013 12:50:29 AM)
The first thing that came to mind when I heard about the older brother's ranting was some families from Korea that I worked with for a while in the 80s and 90s. The older generation were openly pro-American, especially as a land of business opportunity. These were often the first ones to come here and set up the kiehs. (communal money pools to seed family owned businesses) Their kids or grandkids, the teens to 20 somethings were virulently anti-American and had a whole canned Hate you' schtick about 'The US is all racist, and took all the slaves from Africa, and got your butts whipped by the Chinese and Viet Cong and ran away, and...'. None of them could actually tell you who the Viet Cong were though, it was just a canned insult. And from what I see these days in the KPop and post KPop young Koreans, their attitude about America, seems similar to many American's attitude about Disney World... a fun place to run around in if you've got the money. I doubt if anyone will successfully predict the next 'mad' bomber(s). quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: the mental thing was just with one brother tho, not both.. and I am not of the opinion that those "voices" told the older brother to bomb people, omg, tj . . . did you hear them too? [:D] ha. ha. ha. very funny.. [&:] [:D] no, but the older brother was going on about US interference in other countries, blah, blah, blah as his reason for hating the US & jihad.. that don't sound like no freaky crazy voices to me, that sounds like nutbar religious extremism, in great part taught to him by his dear nutbar shrew momma..

vincentML -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/17/2013 8:17:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: the mental thing was just with one brother tho, not both.. and I am not of the opinion that those "voices" told the older brother to bomb people, omg, tj . . . did you hear them too? [:D] ha. ha. ha. very funny.. [&:] [:D] no, but the older brother was going on about US interference in other countries, blah, blah, blah as his reason for hating the US & jihad.. that don't sound like no freaky crazy voices to me, that sounds like nutbar religious extremism, in great part taught to him by his dear nutbar shrew momma.. Apologies for teasing you. Really. [:)] However, hearing voices is symptomatic of severe mental illness underlying his expressions of political disapproval. It is not uncommon for someone in his state to be obedient to the voices.

tj444 -> RE: Family Terror: The Tsarnaevs- & the root of terrorism? (12/17/2013 12:00:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Apologies for teasing you. Really. [:)] However, hearing voices is symptomatic of severe mental illness underlying his expressions of political disapproval. It is not uncommon for someone in his state to be obedient to the voices. no, not uncommon but in this case he did not act alone (are you aware of any imaginary voice motivated killers that didn't act alone? I cant think of any), he had a (non-voice hearing) accomplice (who earlier that year became an American citizen) that was just as fully invested in bombing not once but (allegedly) attempting a second bombing.. If Tamerlan had acted alone and on his own, then I would agree with you.. I guess the only thing predictable about people is that they can be unpredictable.. friends of these two went so far as to hide/destroy evidence & stuck their own necks out (stupidly).. and then there are the dumb-as-a-brick chicks/groupies that think Jakar "is too cute to be guilty".. [sm=banghead.gif]

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875