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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/4/2014 9:24:58 AM

Spiritedsub2

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Kana's post above went into the saved file.

< Message edited by Spiritedsub2 -- 1/4/2014 9:25:01 AM >

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/4/2014 4:49:35 PM

tooomuch

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Focus 50,
I am not sure that my Master does not possess layers of vanilla in his mix. The problem in constructing an answer to this question lies in my own brokeness. For five years I have been a broken toy. For three of them I was convinced I was no longer a slave, of course that left me being a nothing since being a slave was something I was, not something I did. That state was debilitating to the point of having to find professional help, though admittedly limited. From then to now I have come to see I am who I am, a slave by nature, owned or not owned, used or not used and if not owned and if not used I will and have enslave myself to any taker, organization, work, job, friend who might be willing to be served.

So I now have sought and found an Owner. He is admittedly a newbie and has asked for clarity. I believe part of the reason I feel safe with him is because while I am convinced I am still myself, a slave, I am not quite able to dive back into the deep end of the pool, where I have always lived. So we are tentatively traversing together. He at the very beginning of his journey and me at the return of my own.

It would be easy to say if he were only more of a Master he would not need this clarity, however I am pretty sure if he were more of a Master I would have cut and run long before we got to this point.

So we are here, seeking the steps. Your description of the essence of it is very helpful. It pinpoints the essence of it and from there action can be divined.

Thank you

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/4/2014 5:00:27 PM

tooomuch

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Kana,
Thank you so much for your reply, it created a context from which I feel like dialogue can develop. Yours was really the first post that provided that.

It is difficult for me to accept that I need a tighter leash and am using this forum to find a way to have it. But, being that I am not entirely confident in myself these days, I am willing to accept this about myself. It sounds very manipulative and topping from the bottom, and I find such actions loathsome. But given that I have to admit your post drew from me sighs of contentment and elation, you must have hit the nail on the head and be damned of what I want or not want to believe about myself.

I especially liked the part of the post that described a slave as if one in Rome. It created a paradigm that can be compared to. A slave in Rome was not asked what they wanted or what they thought their Owner wanted, they were tools to be used for whatever their Owner wanted a tool for. They became that. This comparison provides a clear structure to build from, thank you. I do not think I am a slave as in Rome, but the philosophical ramifications are useful in our development and dialogue.

Thank you.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 5:22:48 AM

dananddawn

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When I was new entering/leading a power exchange relationship, I have found a contract - actually formally written out - to be of great value. And I still use one today with new slaves. Because it helps me in two ways.
- First, I had an internal 'hump' to get over between this being fantasy and being real. Part of my mind did not believe that you really wanted me to punish you because you did not clean the bathroom. Sure you might see that in a story or movie, but anyone really wants that? A contract helps me see that you have made a concrete decision on what you want. And help me believe it.
- Secondly, it is also a commitment to myself and a set of reminders as to what I have committed to. If you are cleaning the bathroom to my satisfaction, then I had better remember to check the bathroom :)

Beyond the contract, get involved in the real time community. Only in that way will (new dom) see that it is real, and see some examples of real people and how they do things. Depending on your local community, they might even have a peer mentorship program in place (Dallas and Detroit are two i know that do).

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 8:33:11 AM

sheisreeds

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In a Nature vs Nurture context I very much believe that overall D/s attributes need to come from nature of the person, they cannot be nurtured into being. Especially in the kind of dynamic you seek. I personally thrive in an adversarial dynamic, and I have found over the years that interest in such does not necessarily mean success in many potential partners I have flirted with over the years. A lot of guys like the idea of being able to smack their girl on the ass, call her names, wrestling, etc, but in practice it is only play to them, it is a fulfilled fantasy, not a need and a heart of the relationship.

That being said just having the Nature of being a dom, sub, or switch is not enough, the role needs to be nurtured. It needs to be understood by the person, it needs to be explored, practiced, and it needs to be healthy. Let me say that again, the expression of the role needs to be HEALTHY.

It's the difference between power exchange and abuse. It is the difference between being an empowered submissive, and being a seeking victim.

You have written a lot about bad experiences in past relationships, damage, and feeling insecure. You need to get healthy in your role, wants, and needs as a slave. You need to identify who you are, and how to maintain autonomy within that.

A HEALTHY master wants nothing less than a whole woman with her own wants, needs, dreams, aspirations, self esteem, confidence who is willing to bow down and offer that to him.

A HEALTHY master is not just looking for someone to obey, but for someone they can love and respect as a whole person.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 8:48:03 AM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dananddawn
- First, I had an internal 'hump' to get over between this being fantasy and being real. Part of my mind did not believe that you really wanted me to punish you because you did not clean the bathroom. Sure you might see that in a story or movie, but anyone really wants that? A contract helps me see that you have made a concrete decision on what you want. And help me believe it.
- Secondly, it is also a commitment to myself and a set of reminders as to what I have committed to. If you are cleaning the bathroom to my satisfaction, then I had better remember to check the bathroom :)

I've written pretty extensively re #1 over the years here, so, other than noting that almost every new dom wrestles with this to some extent or another, this is dead on.
Number two though is also 100% accurate, and it's a hyper critical yet oft neglected point at that. Domination is only as good as the follow through.
Give her an order and don't check up, make sure it's done correctly and guess what-you've just undercut your credibility. Do it long enough and she's gonna lose respect,stop obeying. Because why other, he doesn't care enough to check anyways.
Orders are nice. Structure is good. None of it means shit w/o assuring compliance.
It's kinda amazing how something so simple yet so important almost never gets discussed. Thanks for bringing it up.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 9:33:13 AM

tooomuch

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Dear dan and dawn,
Thank you so much for your wisdom. I have not had a contract since the very beginning of my journey. I can really see the value of it now as I am coming back into myself. It was actually a pure Sadist who had me under contract, he was not an Owner, nor dominant, at all, and yet by having that contract I felt safe as a slave, even though the dynamics were not strictly D/s. This was in the early 80's so there was not the plethora of information available to me back then. Still his instinct to put me under contract was exactly what I, as a slave, needed in the context of serving him.

Thank you again, your description of its value to you as an Owner made it very clear how a contract has a very tangible place in the dynamic especially now in the beginning of our journey.

Thank you.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 9:45:23 AM

tooomuch

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Dear sheisreeds,
I entirely agree with you, and I am very much out of my cocoon. However having said that, I have not yet taken flight. It was a long, long cold winter in that cocoon, really it was five years and they did not pass as years, but as months, and weeks and days and often even minutes of aloneness and lostness and a deep sense of darkness and despair.

However I am no longer in the cocoon. It has been since early summer that the vestiges of that which held me during my own transformation began to break free and I saw that I am still a slave. My profile picture is of a butterfly which landed on my pickup this summer. It was just after I had, had a long conversation with my oldest son concerning a different dom who I was learning from back then, not to be my Owner but a muse on the journey, who pointed out how difficult it must be for a butterfly to go in as a caterpillar and come out a butterfly. I was a little panicked thinking omg, so I am not going to be a slave after all...what now?? But then the universe brought me that butterfly and I saw for myself, during the 20 minutes or so that it crawled all over my door, that now, the caterpillar is still there, I am still a slave, but now that same caterpillar with all of its body parts intact can also fly.

I am whole, however I am still at the beginning of this season. As such the Master I now have is nearly perfect for me. I have had conversations with those who are clear on ownership and TPE and I know I am not yet ready for that. I may be again some day, or maybe not. Maybe wings mean something different. I don't know.

I do believe the man I am now surrendered to has the nature of an Owner but is fledgling. He hears the wisdom shared here and takes it into his own sense of himself and translates it into that which feeds his soul while also reassuring the slave that is me.

Still you are right, until I was free from that place of rejuvenation I was not able to give anything to another. Thank you for your concern about the essence of me. I value that perspective.

Thank you.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 10:02:22 AM

sheisreeds

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And all that being said I think this could be a very good place to be for both of you.

Though his desire to be dominant must be something that occurs with or without you. If he cranks it up a notch just to make you happy, it will fold eventually.

It can be really hard to tell the difference. I was in a relationship for 4 years where for him it was fun and something to do for me, and for me it was something I needed. Though if asked he would say he needed it too, simply to meet my needs.

Needless to say it ended in divorce.

For many this BDSM related stuff is not need driven, it is wants, it is fantasies, for some it is just icing.

When it is need driven, it really has to be such for both parties.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 10:19:41 AM

littlewonder

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quote:

When it is need driven, it really has to be such for both parties.

Kana sez, "Yup."

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 11:14:40 AM

unionkane

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For me this is really "need driven", if not, I wouldn't be as pretentious as to bring another person into it....it would be a dream or a fantasy.

In the past, my biggest dissapointment has been people having said they'd concurr to that and after some some time......really hadnt..

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 11:35:11 AM

tooomuch

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I have learned a lot from this whole experience of asking here in the forums. I will freely admit I had not really thought I would be learning. I expected suggestions, I did not expect revelations.

One of those things I have come to realize is that many people here have vanilla experiences before coming to this lifestyle. Indeed there are a number of references comparing that life to this. I realized this is a difference of mine, I have never been in a vanilla relationship. Being a slave is not something I do, it is who I am.

Smiles, you should see how much my boss enjoys having a slave as an employee, and my children are also very good at exploiting my nature. Indeed finally getting well enough to have an Owner is going to help me with what should be obvious limits.

There is nothing about this for me that is not need driven. It is who I am.

Thank you all, for your amazing and even generous contributions. I feel like I have had a light illuminated on my foundational structure. I feel like I suddenly see down to the stone work and am again content with just being me.

Thank you.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 2:25:57 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tooomuch

One of those things I have come to realize is that many people here have vanilla experiences before coming to this lifestyle. Indeed there are a number of references comparing that life to this. I realized this is a difference of mine, I have never been in a vanilla relationship. Being a slave is not something I do, it is who I am.

I realize your attempting to be gracious and grateful with the suggestions and thoughts shared to you. But what I quote above to me shows how little you seem to appreciate and understand the actual people that have shared their perspectives. For years, I have been listening and reading the thoughts of many of the people that wrote in this thread. I can tell you that many of them do what they do because it is who there are regardless of the experiences they have had in life.

In particularly what bolded and the context to which you wrote the above to me is somehow minimizing those with the so called vanilla relationships in their past. The fact of the matter. Being a slave is as much about doing it as it is who one is.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 2:48:14 PM

sheisreeds

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Knight of Mists, couldn't agree more, and have also picked up an assumptive tone in the OP. Not just with that comment but others as well.

Related to the bolded comment: I have also never really been in a vanilla relationship. Many of us here have not. I have had vanilla sexual partners but usually there was some extreme scenario attached that made that possible, like a 120mph car chase. Which is also why I seek out only BDSM type relationships because as fun as 120mph car chases car they can get me killed.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 9:42:43 PM

Focus50

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds

In a Nature vs Nurture context I very much believe that overall D/s attributes need to come from nature of the person, they cannot be nurtured into being. Especially in the kind of dynamic you seek. I personally thrive in an adversarial dynamic, and I have found over the years that interest in such does not necessarily mean success in many potential partners I have flirted with over the years. A lot of guys like the idea of being able to smack their girl on the ass, call her names, wrestling, etc, but in practice it is only play to them, it is a fulfilled fantasy, not a need and a heart of the relationship.

That being said just having the Nature of being a dom, sub, or switch is not enough, the role needs to be nurtured. It needs to be understood by the person, it needs to be explored, practiced, and it needs to be healthy. Let me say that again, the expression of the role needs to be HEALTHY.

It's the difference between power exchange and abuse. It is the difference between being an empowered submissive, and being a seeking victim.

You have written a lot about bad experiences in past relationships, damage, and feeling insecure. You need to get healthy in your role, wants, and needs as a slave. You need to identify who you are, and how to maintain autonomy within that.

A HEALTHY master wants nothing less than a whole woman with her own wants, needs, dreams, aspirations, self esteem, confidence who is willing to bow down and offer that to him.

A HEALTHY master is not just looking for someone to obey, but for someone they can love and respect as a whole person.

That's a damned fine post.

Focus.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 10:08:22 PM

Focus50

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tooomuch

Focus 50,
I am not sure that my Master does not possess layers of vanilla in his mix.

In my experience (and ideal), probably 95% of the average M/s relationship would qualify as vanilla. And 99.9% to the outside world - if we're doing it right (without being perfect).

quote:

The problem in constructing an answer to this question lies in my own brokeness.

Too much lies in your apparent "brokenness". See, acknowledgement and acceptance etc are important stages of any healing process. And then there's the other extreme of that.... I believe the saying goes, "whether you think you can or think you can't, you're *right*!".

And as long as you keep obsessing on how broken you think you are, you can't move forward. Dunno how your master feels about it, but the more you keep openly saying it here, the creepier it gets, IMO. And I've been at this awhile so I wonder how it plays with a newbie dom finding his way with apparently damaged goods. His first question orta be, "What's that saying about me?".... Same thing (damaged goods) if it's not scaring him to death....

Give yourself a break as you're getting a lot of good advice here....

Focus.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/5/2014 10:16:25 PM

littlewonder

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Op, I'm concerned when you seem to think it's a good thing that your boss likes that you are a slave and you basically bow down to absolutely everyone.

Yup, I'm a submissive personality but the difference is, I set limits on what can be pushed within me. While life is easier to just submit, it also can create destruction when you allow everyone to just walk all over you. How can you be a good parent if you allow your children to take full advantage of your submissive personality? And your boss will continue to use you. Is that the kind of life you actually want to live?

To me, this is where your problem lies and what you need to fix. No man wants a woman who has no self confidence or esteem unless he really doesn't care about you whatsoever. And if that's true, why would you want a man like that?

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/6/2014 8:19:52 AM

kalikshama

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tooomuch - a theme in your posts makes me think reading Why People Don't Heal and How They Can followed by Anatomy of the Spirit: The Seven Stages of Power and Healing would be useful for you. They were for me. They may be available in your library system.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/6/2014 11:12:48 AM

tooomuch

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Kalikshama,
Thank you for the recommendations. I will certainly look for them.

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RE: Power Exchange (How is it done?) - 1/6/2014 6:52:55 PM

DesFIP

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My therapist used to ask people like the op what she gets out of this state that she's clinging to it. Why does she want to stay broken? Why doesn't she want to be a good mother who sets limits and gives consequences? Why does she insist on staying unhealthy and therefore only being attracted to unhealthy partners.

Personally, I see her maligning this poor guy too in a couple of years. Because she gets something out of being a martyr, out of self defining as someone who is misused and abused and taken advantage of. And you can't define yourself like that if there isn't someone misusing and abusing you, someone to be the bad guy.

The only constant in all your relationships is you. Fix yourself.
Before you can enter into a power exchange relationship you have to have power to give over. Since you insist you have none to give, then how can he take it?

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