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RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/6/2014 10:53:55 AM

Runningkc

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I don't have any advice for you, as I tried and failed to add kink to my vanilla relationship.

We were together for about three years. While I think he was naturally dominant in some ways, he couldn't grasp that I was needing and wanting something more than just rough sex. I sat down and had conversations of what a "Dominant" meant to me, how it made me feel. I suggested and found some reading for him, to try to help explain as well. He just never really got it.

I wish you the best of luck, I think it all depends on the person. It's not that my ex wasn't open minded, he just couldn't wrap his head around it. Personally, as Resident Sadist suggested, I will now be sticking to my own side of the fence.

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 21

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/6/2014 11:28:46 AM

unionkane

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quote:

ORIGINAL:pg4g

I suppose I'm asking: Does anyone have any experience exploring their kinks for the first time with a vanilla? How do you recommend people explore their kinks with a vanilla partner? I'm certain there are thousands of kinky folks out their in vanilla relationships, so I'm curious how to make this work for both partners?

Im not really sure what you're asking here....sure, I've had awkward moments during sex with a vanilla.....as I'm sure they've had with me....but that was before the time I defined myself as "kinky".

Chris

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 22

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/6/2014 2:28:12 PM

pg4g

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Chris,

I was asking how people have had experiences "kinking up" their vanilla partner, and how they've successfully found a way to balance their own desires with that of a long-term partner. This would be for someone who knows they're into certain kinks, but knows that their partner has either had no exposure to it, or no interest in them. Perhaps the partner was even disgusted by the thought of being hurt by their partner, or hurting their partner?

I know that some of my more extreme tendencies, like the significant desire to get tied up and beaten like a human punching bag against my will, or as DarkSadist suggested, getting waterboarded were enough to make my guy go "oh man, that's way beyond anything I could feel comfortable with right now", and that was all good. Telling your strictly top-only partner that you also hold the desire to whip their back and show them how much they can endure was also enough to make him go "You're never doing anything like that to me. Ever." Again, I told him "I would never touch you in any way remotely like that unless I had your express request to do it, and I would never suggest it."

Then again, he would have said the exact same thing to body slamming me and forcing me to have non-consensual sex (with certain significant rules) only a couple of months ago. And yet he loves these things and the control over me that gives him. It was only a matter of introducing him to it in a careful way.

My question was... how fast is too fast? How do you progress from a bit of rough play and non-consensual sex to human punching bags, waterboarding and electrotorture? And how do you ensure you don't push the partner beyond some significant limit they themselves don't even realise they have?

< Message edited by pg4g -- 1/6/2014 2:37:23 PM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/6/2014 2:52:49 PM

sheisreeds

Posts: 578
Joined: 7/8/2008
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quote:

My question was... how fast is too fast? How do you progress from a bit of rough play and non-consensual sex to human punching bags, waterboarding and electrotorture? And how do you ensure you don't push the partner beyond some significant limit they themselves don't even realise they have?

pg4g, there is no way to know for sure how fast is to fast. The best way is through good communication, and also to an extent allow things to happen naturally. It might also be worthwhile to attend some kink related meetups and events, to assist the dialogue, and also give you connections with others who are doing some of the things that you would like to do.

Fetlife is great for finding local groups and events, just by doing a search for your location and joining the groups that come up.

My relationship evolved in a similar way. His kinky tendencies were clear right after we had gotten together, when he bit me really really hard the first time things got intimate. I had some involvement with the local BDSM community, and was on here. After a few weeks of near KO's in the bedroom, we started regularly going to meetups. We got to know others, and started increasing our skillset. Actually about 3-4 months into our exploration I waterboarded him with a friend of mine.

The more intense and dangerous types of play: knives, waterboarding, electricity, etc, etc for the most part falls under what most of us call edge play. I highly recommend learning these forms of play from other real live people, and having some contact with a BDSM related community. This also allows for getting to see demos, watching other people play, etc, and getting a chance to identify your interests. This might be particularly interesting for your partner.

Also, I know you got a lot of responses, check my post on adversarial type play, since that seems to be a lot of what you guys are getting yourselves into.

_____________________________

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Oh my darling, give me reason
give me something to believe in

You need a spankin' baby!

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Post #: 24

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/6/2014 2:56:14 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

My question was... how fast is too fast? How do you progress from a bit of rough play and non-consensual sex to human punching bags, waterboarding and electrotorture? And how do you ensure you don't push the partner beyond some significant limit they themselves don't even realise they have?

Start with the 101 > Evaluate > Gain knowledge when required for safety > Make a plan > Move on > Repeat

My limits tend to show up during, and I'll either Red or discuss it afterwards. Others may process a bit before they decide something is not for them.

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 25

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/6/2014 3:25:15 PM

pg4g

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From: Australia
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Yeah, thanks everyone for your responses. I wasn't suggesting by responding to Chris that my questions hadn't been answered, or that they were answered. I suppose these are questions that can never be objectively answered - they change from person to person.

I have to be careful I don't push him away by inviting him to meet ups, etc, because he's got a very strong stereotype of what it means to be into BDSM that really makes him dislike it. I'm rather open minded, considering my dark fantasies starting when I was 8 - I was never into slapping and light whipping but getting chained up, beaten to a pulp, ripped to shreds with whips, tortured, and doing that to others what wanted it. Knowing that darkness made me never judge BDSM-interested people like he does.

Yes, we're definitely into adversarial play, sheisreeds. We fight and wrestle and have so much fun doing it. He's just a painphobe and has panic attacks if I get to restraining him. I need to be careful with him, but yes I'm hoping we can push through those boundaries a bit, once he starts to fear lack of control a bit less. But current we just make it physical roughness if I end on top, and heck I love that too, so I'm not all that concerned. Thanks for your input.

I appreciate all everyone's said. It's all very helpful and food for thought.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 26

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/6/2014 3:30:21 PM

sheisreeds

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For groups you may want to try a TNG - "The Next Generation" type of group, I know there are at least a few down under. They tend to be less into D/s, and the Master/slave dynamic, with younger people into a whole range of things. It's a lot more palatable for many.

_____________________________

~ s.

Oh my darling, give me reason
give me something to believe in

You need a spankin' baby!

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 27

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/11/2014 1:17:46 PM

RobMo13

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Be true up front. Before you get to deep. If you end up in a vanilla relationship, you'll always feel that something is missing. Im talking from experience. Just enough kink during a short engagement leaves me in more vanilla than I saw coming. Even to the point she suggested I see a counselor for my problem. Im not normal. WTF is normal. Better to make sure on same page early on.

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Post #: 28

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/23/2014 5:26:45 AM

AnnaOfAramis

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My experience with vanillas is that sometimes the words scare them more than the actuality. I wouldn't use words like BDSM or talk about S&M or stuff like that. I would just DO. I'd start off with what THEY want. Forget about your likes for a bit and explore what they like. I wouldn't turn up with anything that looks too "professional" either, lol. I mean if someone wants to try being tied up for example go with something improvised from around the house rather than turning up with leather restraints. If you look like you frequent sex stores this can freak some people out. Help them grow into it slowly and eventually you can introduce more when they seem more accepting. YMMV.

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Post #: 29

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/23/2014 6:09:20 AM

freedomdwarf1

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FR~

I'm on similar lines to RobMo13 - if they are really "vanilla", you aren't going to change them or their PoV.
As Rob said, they'll look at you as if you've just sprouted two heads!
You'll be a freak, a pervert, a pedo, a psycho, everything they can think of all at once.
They'll tell you to seek psychiatric/professional help for your 'problem'.

If they were a real vanilla and you followed Anna's advice, you'll probably get arrested.
So the first thing you need to know for sure, absolutely 110% for definite positive, is if they are vanilla or are secretly harbouring some sort of kink.
If they are vanilla, you won't be able to change them one iota. Don't even try.
However, if they are slightly kinky, you'll have to probe very carefully to find out what it is.
Once that is discovered, follow kalik's plan.... evaluate, learn, apply knowledge.

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)

Post #: 30

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/23/2014 7:47:36 AM

AnnaOfAramis

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Then I think you misunderstand my advice. Why on earth would someone get arrested for asking someone what their fantasies were and what they were interested in trying? I specifically said don't turn up with stuff that would freak them out. I was technically vanilla once, but I had kinky inner desires as most of us were at some point. What I am saying is to find the things that can be a starting point and go so gradually into introducing new ideas that the person doesn't even realize they are taking the steps in that direction. Successive approximation.

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Post #: 31

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/23/2014 8:06:07 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis

Then I think you misunderstand my advice. Why on earth would someone get arrested for asking someone what their fantasies were and what they were interested in trying? I specifically said don't turn up with stuff that would freak them out. I was technically vanilla once, but I had kinky inner desires as most of us were at some point. What I am saying is to find the things that can be a starting point and go so gradually into introducing new ideas that the person doesn't even realize they are taking the steps in that direction. Successive approximation.

Did you READ your previous post???

Let me remind you of the bit that caught my eye....
"...I wouldn't use words like BDSM or talk about S&M or stuff like that. I would just DO.".
You never said about asking... just that you would just do!

Also....

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis
...I'd start off with what THEY want. Forget about your likes for a bit and explore what they like. I wouldn't turn up with anything that looks too "professional" either, lol.

- and -

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis
I mean if someone wants to try being tied up for example go with something improvised from around the house rather than turning up with leather restraints. If you look like you frequent sex stores this can freak some people out. Help them grow into it slowly and eventually you can introduce more when they seem more accepting. YMMV.

No mention of asking... all DOing!

And yes, if you've ever gotten a massive slap round the face and a kick in the gonads just for even mentioning anything kinky, you'll know that even just asking could get you arrested for being a pervert.

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)

Post #: 32

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/25/2014 6:34:13 AM

AnnaOfAramis

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Have you considered that perhaps you are MISINTERPRETING what I wrote? Yes just do. That doesn't mean bring out the whips, duh. Or have you no clue on how to do something so small that it won't stick out as something unusual to them? Have you never heard of successive approximation? Baby steps. It's called reading someone's responses and figuring out what it seems like they respond to. It's called talking to them about their interests without specifically using words like "BDSM" that will freak them out. A lot of vanilla women have some kinky interests under the surface- or did you miss the whole Shades of Grey popularity?

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RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/25/2014 7:08:46 AM

newport222

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I agree completely with Anna, but I would try not to lose sight of the fact that BDSM, at least my version, is at it's heart mental. You don't even really need to look around for household items at first, just slowly begin to act out the role during sex. If you have Domme tendencies you might climb up towards the pillow and straddle him, or guide him down between your legs gently. If he jumps up and says something like, 'what the hell are you doing?' then it's probably never going to work. On the other hand, if he 'takes the bait' you might grab his hair, begin to guide him a little more demandingly (I think I'm making up words here, sue me...) 'no, further up, just like that, good, a little slower...' etc. When you're getting off, grab the hair a little tighter, etc. If you're sub, you can start doing what you always do, but just start adding things like 'Do you like it like that?' or 'Am I doing it right?' 'Just tell me what to do' etc. maybe at some point take his hand and put it on your hair, slowly close his fingers around it a bit, maybe...

Annas main point, I think, is that most people wouldn't describe what I've written above as BDSM at all, but if it turns both people on and progresses even a little, it absolutely IS BDSM long before any restraints or implements come into play. There's also nothing in these baby steps which will get anyone arrested, or even ruin a relationship unless the guy is REALLY uptight about his sexuality. And if this is the case, and you have unfulfilled desires, you might very well have to start thinking about a new relationship, however difficult it may seem.

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)

Post #: 34

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/25/2014 8:59:23 AM

AnnaOfAramis

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@ Newport Thank you Sir, yes that's exactly what I'm trying to say (and apparently not explaining well, lol). Here is an article I wrote some time ago, that being longer, may be clearer than when I tried to summarize it in a couple of sentences!

http://inservicetomen.com/mainsite/index.php/annas-blog/item/76-from-vanilla-to-kinky-10-tips-on-how-to-introduce-a-vanilla-person-to-the-lifestyle.html

< Message edited by AnnaOfAramis -- 1/25/2014 9:00:27 AM >

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RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/25/2014 2:08:50 PM

newport222

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Excellent article, anna. About 15 years ago, I lived in Manhattan and match.com was just starting out. I think it was even free at that point if memory serves. I put up an ad with the headline 'Dominant male seeks submissive female'. I then wrote my profile pretty much just like the one I have on here. I got a LOT of responses and met several women, one of whom is still one of my best friends in the world. She had NEVER done anything kinky, though she had had 'dark thoughts'. I did not receive one 'flame' or negative comment. I think a big dividing line for a lot of people is coming to terms with their OWN feelings. You don't have to paste it on facebook, but as long as you're trying to not 'get caught' most potential partners will eventually sense that something's up, and it will turn them off (rightly so, IMO). Put your cards on the table, one way or another, and let the chips fall where they may. If they don't fall your way, get over it, move on, but don't think you're 'winning' because you haven't been 'found out.'

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)

Post #: 36

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/25/2014 7:06:08 PM

AnnaOfAramis

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That is great when you are starting out with someone off the bat, and I totally agree! But the problem for many people is when they are already in a long-term relationship or marriage and want to explore their own interests and don't want to break up the relationship. It happens a lot and introducing it carefully can be critical.

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RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/25/2014 7:21:32 PM

DesFIP

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OP, you're not recognizing that men have been taught all their lives never to hit a girl or order her around. It takes quite a while for them to get that the corollary to that statement is: "Unless she wants you to".

So how much positive reinforcement are you giving him? If he agrees to spank you, and does a couple of light swats are you telling him that wasn't good enough or are you telling him repeatedly over the next few weeks how hot it was, and how much you can't stop thinking about it. And could he do it again, pretty please, only harder and longer. And are you prepared to keep giving positive reinforcement so he slowly becomes comfortable doing it?

If this isn't just play, but d/s then you ask him to pick the cereal and you are effusively grateful about him saving you 20 minutes lost in the cereal aisle unable to decide. And you eat the Shredded Wheat even though they do taste like cardboard, while asking him to pick a bran cereal next time.

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Post #: 38

RE: Exploring With A Vanilla - 1/26/2014 6:15:52 AM

AnnaOfAramis

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Joined: 7/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

OP, you're not recognizing that men have been taught all their lives never to hit a girl or order her around. It takes quite a while for them to get that the corollary to that statement is: "Unless she wants you to".

So how much positive reinforcement are you giving him? If he agrees to spank you, and does a couple of light swats are you telling him that wasn't good enough or are you telling him repeatedly over the next few weeks how hot it was, and how much you can't stop thinking about it. And could he do it again, pretty please, only harder and longer. And are you prepared to keep giving positive reinforcement so he slowly becomes comfortable doing it?

If this isn't just play, but d/s then you ask him to pick the cereal and you are effusively grateful about him saving you 20 minutes lost in the cereal aisle unable to decide. And you eat the Shredded Wheat even though they do taste like cardboard, while asking him to pick a bran cereal next time.

I sometimes wish there was just a "like" button I could hit. But yes this. Positive Reinforcement! I highly recommend the book "Don't Shoot the Dog" (which is not just about dogs by the way, the title is misleading). It explains how to use positive reinforcement in a lot of different situations.

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