Another shooting rampage. (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 1:12:17 PM)

From an article by Mark Steyn:

Unarmed Man Goes On Shooting Rampage
By Mark Steyn
December 6, 2013 7:23 AM
.

A mentally disturbed man is wandering through traffic outside New York’s Port Authority Bus Terminal. Naturally, the NYPD open fire. They miss the guy. However, the sidewalks being full of people, they manage to hit two female pedestrians, one of them already using a walker, which comes in handy when the coppers shoot you in the leg.

So the DA charges the guy with assaulting the women:

“The defendant is the one that created the situation that injured innocent bystanders,” said an assistant district attorney, Shannon Lucey.

Ah, yes: the “situation” injured the innocent bystanders. If you outlaw guns, only situations will have guns.

The defendant is looking at 25 years in jail for the crime of provoking law enforcement into shooting random citizens. If this flies in New York, then there is no law.

~~~~~~~

I post the article for balance, since there is such a plethora of coverage when there is a shooting in a schoolyard.




joether -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 4:07:42 PM)

Have to chuckle at the presentation of this 'article'.

1 ) There is not a link from a credible source of news here. Typically the author of these posts never places a link. So a 30 second google.com search turned up the usual suspects: right wing, pro-gun, and anti-government and anti-facts groups. When only certain groups are pushing for something not in the main stream media coverage, it generally means people are pushing an agenda for the benefit of a very small percentage of the population. In this case, those that hate the government and feel firearms are some mystical items of protection.

2 ) That the story is the same printing on ALL the sites viewed from '1' above. Not one of them offering a different perspective or additional information to the original 'story' written. In other words, questioning the authority of what is written is wrong, but questioning what is wrong with authorities is right. Not one of these stories explains....WHY...the police drew guns and fired. Would that not be a good question? As typically they do not draw their arms unless the suspect was drawing a weapon of some type.

3 ) Here is one more example in which drawing and firing a weapon accurately is not a piece of cake. As medical science can explain, that when the human body experiences the 'fight or flight' response, blood draws out of the extremities (i.e. hands and feet) towards the central part of the body. This makes holding a firearm and accurately shooting it considerably harder. While most police will practice to over come such human conditions, it does still happen. For those that do not practice this stuff acting and drawing a firearm, the effects will be the same or worst. Which makes it ironically funny for right winters and anti-government types to bash on the police for this, when in effect, reduces their own credibility with firearms if caught in the same or similar situation. Its not funny that the events unfolded were really bad for bystanders.

4 ) "A mentally disturbed man is wandering through traffic...". What evidence does the author have to show the man in question was mentally disturbed? There is no video, photos, or independent eye witnesses to verify the person in question. I've known drunk and drugged out people to do some amazing dumb and unwise things. And most of those are not '...mentally disturbed....' individuals. So where is the hard evidence of this accusation?

5 ) You can tell this is not 'news' but rather 'propaganda' by the 4th 'paragraph': Ah, yes: the “situation” injured the innocent bystanders. If you outlaw guns, only situations will have guns. No serious journalist would write this crap, not even if they worked for FOX News! One more reason not to take this 'story' seriously.

6 ) Why was the suspect pursued by the police in the first place? This goes along with '4' above in that there would need to be....something....of a reason for police to pursue this person. Which crime was the suspect charged with exactly? Oh that' right, in the author's greed to push the propaganda he forgot about THE FACTS.

A person that will take this 'story' as 'legit', is best of placing all their money for investing purposes under their mattress. And then taking the financial hit years down the road like a man. A good investor that makes many times their initial investment years later typically examines not just the information, but the source(s) of that information. They check how valid the information and source is and even check up on the information from time to time depending on the length of the investment. Which is to say, someone with a healthy dose of wisdom would not accept this story 'as is' since it leaves a huge amount of information out. The purpose of a journalistic quality news article is to FULLY explain the 'who's', the 'why's', the 'how's', the 'when's', and the 'where's'. To the best of their knowledge without inputting political agendas with the work. That would be how a PROFESSIONAL journalist operates. This guy who wrote this piece is neither a professional nor a journalist.




Phydeaux -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 4:37:44 PM)

Well, since your google skills are so obviously incompetent.

Will the Times do?
How about CNN?

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9248817
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/09/15/2-bystanders-struck-as-nypd-cops-fire-at-man-near-port-authority-bus-terminal/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/15/justice/times-square-police-shooting/
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/14/nation/la-na-nn-new-york-shooting-20130914

Now as for your snickery about the similarity of the wording. Perhaps you would care to compare the wording on the sources I provided - and comment on their professionalism?

I thought not.




lovmuffin -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 4:44:24 PM)

Good grief, the way this is written and coming from Mark Steyn, its tongue and cheek. One thing is not in doubt, the cops, for what ever reason they decided to shoot, missed their intended target and hit 2 innocent bystanders. I don't doubt what the prosecutor was quoted as saying either and I wouldn't be surprised if the charges have the potential of getting the guy 25 years. I would also infer from the satire that if the man was indeed mentally deranged, in Steyns opinion, 25 years is excessive. If ya want more info, why not just look it up ?




PeonForHer -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 5:00:41 PM)

quote:


I post the article for balance, since there is such a plethora of coverage when there is a shooting in a schoolyard.


I'm not being sarcastic, Phydeaux - I'm genuinely lost. What sense of 'balance' are you referring to, here?




EdBowie -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 6:12:57 PM)

It probably took more time to edit out the fact that this took place 4 months ago, than to simply link to a more complete story...

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/16/nation/la-na-nn-new-york-shooting-20130916




Phydeaux -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 7:01:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


I post the article for balance, since there is such a plethora of coverage when there is a shooting in a schoolyard.


I'm not being sarcastic, Phydeaux - I'm genuinely lost. What sense of 'balance' are you referring to, here?


We've had what 3 threads (some unmoderated) with hundreds (thousands) of posts when a crazy shoots people in a school yard. Hundreds (thousands) waxing poetic on how government restrictions are needed.

The balance is that the presentation of shootings that highlight the ridiculousness of gun regulations; the overweening nature of government authority; and the even handed nature of media.




Phydeaux -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 7:06:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

It probably took more time to edit out the fact that this took place 4 months ago, than to simply link to a more complete story...

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/16/nation/la-na-nn-new-york-shooting-20130916


a. I quoted Mark Steyn in his entirety. At least on the website where it was presented. No editing other than cut and paste artifacts like ads.
b. You linked to the same article I did....




EdBowie -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 7:50:30 PM)

No, everyone can easily see that I linked to the Sept 16th update with the person's name and the reason the police fired, you didn't link to anything in the OP.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

It probably took more time to edit out the fact that this took place 4 months ago, than to simply link to a more complete story...

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/16/nation/la-na-nn-new-york-shooting-20130916


a. I quoted Mark Steyn in his entirety. At least on the website where it was presented. No editing other than cut and paste artifacts like ads.
b. You linked to the same article I did....





TheHeretic -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 9:32:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

We've had what 3 threads (some unmoderated) with hundreds (thousands) of posts when a crazy shoots people in a school yard. Hundreds (thousands) waxing poetic on how government restrictions are needed.



We've had a hell of a lot more threads than that, Phydeaux. It was interesting how a lot of the usual "guns are evil" suspects steered clear of that last unmoderated one though.

What I don't ever seem to see are any of the anti-gun folks coming forward with what it would take to accomplish their goal. Get the Senate, with a 2/3 majority, to pass an amendment to the Constitution that repeals the 2nd, then get 2/3 of the states to ratify that new amendment.

Of course, even after that, somebody will have to go out and collect them. That might not be real pretty, in every case.




BitYakin -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 11:32:44 PM)

I'm just curious here, are you saying that the prosecutor is RIGHT to charge the guy with assault?
I mean you went ON AN ON about the source and tone of the article etc etc etc, even going as far as to call it PROPAGANDA, but seem to have ignored the fact that it DID ACTUALLY HAPPEN!

soo care to weigh in on weather you feel the charges are justified?

or is it as the woman who was SHOT lawyer said "Mariann Wang, a lawyer representing Sahar Khoshakhlagh, one of the women who was wounded, said the district attorney should be pursuing charges against the two officers who fired their weapons in a crowd, not against Mr. Broadnax. “It’s an incredibly unfortunate use of prosecutorial discretion to be prosecuting a man who didn’t even injure my client,” she said. “It’s the police who injured my client.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html?smid=re-share&_r=2&




joether -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/3/2014 11:49:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Well, since your google skills are so obviously incompetent.

Will the Times do?
How about CNN?

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9248817
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/09/15/2-bystanders-struck-as-nypd-cops-fire-at-man-near-port-authority-bus-terminal/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/15/justice/times-square-police-shooting/
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/14/nation/la-na-nn-new-york-shooting-20130914

Now as for your snickery about the similarity of the wording. Perhaps you would care to compare the wording on the sources I provided - and comment on their professionalism?

I thought not.


You REALLY did not understand what I stated, did you? More so, why should I have to do your work on a post when your to lazy to show where you got the information from originally. I simply plugged in the title of the article. An all the sites that came up were as I stated above.




Phydeaux -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/4/2014 12:08:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Well, since your google skills are so obviously incompetent.

Will the Times do?
How about CNN?

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9248817
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/09/15/2-bystanders-struck-as-nypd-cops-fire-at-man-near-port-authority-bus-terminal/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/15/justice/times-square-police-shooting/
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/14/nation/la-na-nn-new-york-shooting-20130914

Now as for your snickery about the similarity of the wording. Perhaps you would care to compare the wording on the sources I provided - and comment on their professionalism?

I thought not.


You REALLY did not understand what I stated, did you? More so, why should I have to do your work on a post when your to lazy to show where you got the information from originally. I simply plugged in the title of the article. An all the sites that came up were as I stated above.


I understood your post completely. Given the author and the date you were incapable finding an article.
I certainly wouldn't be advertising that fact, but to each their own.

somewhere in there, you tried to suggest the uniformityof the story in all the right wing sources apparently unaware let the same phenomenon occurs pretty much across the journalistic spectrum.

did I miss something?




EdBowie -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/4/2014 1:03:34 AM)

The notion that the person committing a serious breach of the law can be held responsible for inadvertent harm to people, shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, it isn't new, or unused.

And as usual, all we've got are some breathless infotainment blurbs and part of one side of the story.





quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

I'm just curious here, are you saying that the prosecutor is RIGHT to charge the guy with assault?
I mean you went ON AN ON about the source and tone of the article etc etc etc, even going as far as to call it PROPAGANDA, but seem to have ignored the fact that it DID ACTUALLY HAPPEN!

soo care to weigh in on weather you feel the charges are justified?

or is it as the woman who was SHOT lawyer said "Mariann Wang, a lawyer representing Sahar Khoshakhlagh, one of the women who was wounded, said the district attorney should be pursuing charges against the two officers who fired their weapons in a crowd, not against Mr. Broadnax. “It’s an incredibly unfortunate use of prosecutorial discretion to be prosecuting a man who didn’t even injure my client,” she said. “It’s the police who injured my client.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html?smid=re-share&_r=2&





BamaD -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/4/2014 12:17:19 PM)

FR
This does address the myth that we are safer letting the cops do the shooting.




BitYakin -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/4/2014 1:26:55 PM)

WOW sounds like a DEFINATE MAYBE there!

I wonder if anyone remembers a thread where there was a drive by shooting at a mans house and he returned fire and hit a bystander?

I wonder if anyone remembers your position on THAT SHOOTING?

I wonder if you said of THAT ISSUE that we only had infotainment blurbs and not enough information to make a judgement?

whereas here we have this info, the man was UNARMED, no shots were fired BY HIM, and police not only shot at an unarmed man, but MISSED and hit innocent bystanders

as for NOT ENOUGH info, the link YOU provided mentions EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS and VIDEO of the incident!




Moonhead -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/4/2014 3:10:39 PM)

Does mummy know that you're shouting in public?




PeonForHer -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/4/2014 4:03:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Does mummy know that you're shouting in public?


STOP TAKING THE PISS MOONHEAD!




popeye1250 -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/5/2014 11:23:35 AM)

They're shooting the wrong people!
I want them in Washington doing their shooting.
Maybe we should start a fund for "Free Ammunition and Train Ticket Fund for Nuts."




popeye1250 -> RE: Another shooting rampage. (1/5/2014 11:27:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Well, since your google skills are so obviously incompetent.

Will the Times do?
How about CNN?

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9248817
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/09/15/2-bystanders-struck-as-nypd-cops-fire-at-man-near-port-authority-bus-terminal/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/15/justice/times-square-police-shooting/
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/14/nation/la-na-nn-new-york-shooting-20130914

Now as for your snickery about the similarity of the wording. Perhaps you would care to compare the wording on the sources I provided - and comment on their professionalism?

I thought not.


You REALLY did not understand what I stated, did you? More so, why should I have to do your work on a post when your to lazy to show where you got the information from originally. I simply plugged in the title of the article. An all the sites that came up were as I stated above.


I understood your post completely. Given the author and the date you were incapable finding an article.
I certainly wouldn't be advertising that fact, but to each their own.

somewhere in there, you tried to suggest the uniformityof the story in all the right wing sources apparently unaware let the same phenomenon occurs pretty much across the journalistic spectrum.

did I miss something?



(Phydeaux, the "hide" button is your friend.)




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