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[Poll]

Will the American Empire collapse?


America is and will remain strong for 100+ years
  18% (8)
America is declining in power, collapse in 75 years
  6% (3)
Collapse in 50 years
  13% (6)
Collapse in 25 years
  9% (4)
Collapse in 15 years
  6% (3)
Collapse in 10 years
  11% (5)
The collapse has already happened
  23% (10)
It's hard to say
  9% (4)


Total Votes : 43
(last vote on : 1/29/2014 5:02:40 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/15/2014 7:59:14 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		So what are the right polling questions? Because, ya, the USA will never truly collapse and disappear, just as the Egyptians never really disappeared or the Greeks or the Romans etc. They just adapted. Sure a lot of them never retained or regained the power and influence they had at certain points in history, but they were still around. The power the USA has now will disappear, nothing stays eternal, the question of the poll was when do people think that power will disappear, or if at all. It was more of a question of people's opinions than anything else. I didn't make it by trying to put my own twist on it or anything. It was a question pure and simple.

Plus what you said about the USA getting out of everyone's shit, I think that would be best for a lot of people, but sadly I don't think a lot of people in government are suddenly going to have a change in heart. Also, every country can print their own money, the USA isn't special in that regard. It's what changes the buying power of money in different countries.

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 1/15/2014 8:02:44 PM >

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/15/2014 8:42:45 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

So what are the right polling questions? Because, ya, the USA will never truly collapse and disappear, just as the Egyptians never really disappeared or the Greeks or the Romans etc. They just adapted. Sure a lot of them never retained or regained the power and influence they had at certain points in history, but they were still around. The power the USA has now will disappear, nothing stays eternal, the question of the poll was when do people think that power will disappear, or if at all. It was more of a question of people's opinions than anything else. I didn't make it by trying to put my own twist on it or anything. It was a question pure and simple.

Plus what you said about the USA getting out of everyone's shit, I think that would be best for a lot of people, but sadly I don't think a lot of people in government are suddenly going to have a change in heart. Also, every country can print their own money, the USA isn't special in that regard. It's what changes the buying power of money in different countries.


There are no correct polling questions because...there are no end to the possibilities.

The correct question was as posed: "Will the American Empire collapse?"

Everything else was a lead in, a directive to answer the question as you wished the answer to be.

"I have a question:

Here are the approved answers:"

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 1/15/2014 8:44:04 PM >

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 5:57:13 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

So what are the right polling questions? Because, ya, the USA will never truly collapse and disappear, just as the Egyptians never really disappeared or the Greeks or the Romans etc. They just adapted. Sure a lot of them never retained or regained the power and influence they had at certain points in history, but they were still around. The power the USA has now will disappear, nothing stays eternal, the question of the poll was when do people think that power will disappear, or if at all. It was more of a question of people's opinions than anything else. I didn't make it by trying to put my own twist on it or anything. It was a question pure and simple.


I'm not sure if it was necessarily the "wrong question," although the main thing missing in these discussions is "What will the world look like after America's power disappears?" How will America's power disappear? That's another question which has to be examined. Will America collapse by the rest of the world joining forces against us? Or will we collapse from within, by too many entrenched competing factions fighting each other for power?

And if America is facing collapse in a matter of years or a few decades, how on Earth could it have happened so quickly? What have we done to ourselves? We can't really blame anybody else for it. But yet, the general attitude seems to be "Woe is us, our country is going down the tubes and there's nothing we can do about it. Party on, dudes!" But hanging out in the shadows are some pretty pissed off people who will be looking for a scapegoat, someone to blame for this mess. That's when things will start to heat up. If America ends, it will likely end with a bang, not a whimper.




(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 6:22:00 AM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline 		America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word.

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 7:09:24 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		The Poll is one part of the question which provides a general statistic of what people think. Of course it doesn't represent all the possibilities, no survey or poll ever does. That's why there's a forum attached, for those alternate opinions to be voiced that are too complex for the poll in question.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 11:05:12 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word.


Technically, but the way we act across the globe certainly does make one think it. We certainly do have an imperialistic flair about our foreign policy.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MsMJAY)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 12:23:04 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to.

(and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.)   They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies.   

China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 12:29:06 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word.

The American Empire does not exist by occupying foreign lands only. It offers protection as well as access to its markets in return for a 'coalition of the willing.' But yes, mistakes have been made.

However, the 21st C will continue to be an American Century, imo.

(in reply to MsMJAY)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 12:30:13 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to.
(and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.)   They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies.   

China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions.


What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 12:34:47 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to.
(and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.)   They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies.   

China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions.


What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have?


China has one carrier group to our ten currently in service. And that one they purchase from the Ukraine for scrap before deciding to arm it. Russia has one in service.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 1:52:57 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to.
(and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.)   They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies.   

China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions.

What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have?

China has one carrier group to our ten currently in service. And that one they purchase from the Ukraine for scrap before deciding to arm it. Russia has one in service.


That's it? They have nothing else? They have no "spy" planes? No recon? Nothing else? I find that to be interesting.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 2:39:37 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The American Empire does not exist by occupying foreign lands only. It offers protection as well as access to its markets in return for a 'coalition of the willing.'

How's that working out with the Chinese and the Saudis?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 4:49:55 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word.


Technically, but the way we act across the globe certainly does make one think it. We certainly do have an imperialistic flair about our foreign policy.



No less.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 4:51:00 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

America is not an empire and the influence we carry globally is rapidly declining. Unless some serious changes happen (and I don't think those changes are very likely to happen) I would say that in about 30 years we will have very little, if any, credibility left in the word.

The American Empire does not exist by occupying foreign lands only. It offers protection as well as access to its markets in return for a 'coalition of the willing.' But yes, mistakes have been made.

However, the 21st C will continue to be an American Century, imo.


I suspect you're right Vincent.

We still need to get out of everyone else's shit.

It's not our fucking place.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 4:59:20 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to.
(and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.)   They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies.   

China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions.


What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have?



I know this isn't news to you but....always remember, nature abhors a vacuum and...history can (and does) turn on a dime.

I think we're (The U.S.) creating swamplands and negative vacuums by our egocentrically incessant impudent actions.

I'm not smart enough to be a Monday morning quarterback as to politics, but I am smart enough to know that most of the shit we all complain about today...in 30 years we'll go (after the docs got released) "Oh...yeah...that's why they did that...hmmmm....guess so and so wasn't such an asshole after all".

(As in, I'm hopeful our leaders aren't, as so many want to believe about Obama...or as so many have opted to blog, write about, or exclaim that any given Prez is the singular personification of Satan).

But I sure as shit fear that we are singularly pissing in the soup.

Because we can.

Just seems crazy to me to be telling your neighbor what color to paint his house and, when he doesn't paint it according to (our) desires.....we light the fucker's car on fire and at some point, kill his dog and even steal his mortgage coupons so he forgets to pay for his house (but stand there when the bank comes by, he with a questioned look on his face and we stand there smiling, supping a nice cappuccino....waving the mortgage coupons in the air as he tries to explain why he's late...to make it clear we aren't to be trifled with.

Because we can.

It just seems fucked up to me.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 1/16/2014 5:13:17 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/16/2014 10:24:26 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline 		I say fifty years, give or take a decade at the most. Much of it has to do with economies here and abroad, as well as our international commitments we've made. Already, our infrastructure is crumbling, corruption and mismanagement is starting to really take its toll (Detroit), and we've mortgaged too much of our future revenue to pay for today's playtime.

I don't have the answer nor will I pretend to. The only thing I can think of is to rein in our overseas adventuring to just those places we really need to be, start cutting domestic spending, and maybe start trying to run this country as a for-profit business (though I can't imagine how that would work). What is going on now isn't going to last, and the sad thing is, it's being played out by people who know they won't be here when it all crumbles under our feet.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/17/2014 5:36:57 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
No, the rising stars from second to first, China, Russia, and the like, but even among the first worlders we have been king of the mountain by many feet, so to go to say (in our minds) on an actual equal footing with the Brits.......uff da, but like them, when we sink, that is the greatest level we can expect to rise to.
(and I mean that without rancor, or disparagement of my English cousins.)   They are a few yards from American and Indian and Chinese and so on colonies.   

China has lttle history of building an empire and Russia is in trouble with the near abroad. Neither has near the Military we have. So, not to worry. We are in temporary withdrawal from recent foolish ambitions.

What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have?

China has one carrier group to our ten currently in service. And that one they purchase from the Ukraine for scrap before deciding to arm it. Russia has one in service.


That's it? They have nothing else? They have no "spy" planes? No recon? Nothing else? I find that to be interesting.



Well, they do have a great deal of control electronics in our siege engines (planes, tanks, computers, satellites, and so forth) so their shadow war machine is much larger than their actual standing army (or the ability to stand it, which is OMFG).

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/17/2014 10:42:21 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

That's it? They have nothing else? They have no "spy" planes? No recon? Nothing else? I find that to be interesting.


Well, I am awaiting further reports from my agents in the field. However, unless you think either Russia or China would attempt a land invasion of the United States the core of power and mobility lies with the Carrier Groups I think.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/17/2014 10:48:02 AM   
FellowSlave


Posts: 97
Joined: 11/23/2013
Status: offline
quote:

What military capabilities do the Russian and Chinese armies have?


It is pretty much irrelevant. The only question is what their nuclear capabilities are. It is basically overcoming the US Anti-missile defense capabilities. This is where the developments are if you follow resent tests by the two countries (China Moon landing and fast missile, Russia tested new ballistic missile systems).
US ground forces are no match to Russia or China when US would be the aggressor; they are low moral "paper tiger" regardless of the best weapons systems. They are only effective when the opponent is very weak, and they have overwhelming superiority. It is as things are, I am not trying to put America down because of lack of sympathy.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/17/2014 10:48:20 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Well, they do have a great deal of control electronics in our siege engines (planes, tanks, computers, satellites, and so forth) so their shadow war machine is much larger than their actual standing army (or the ability to stand it, which is OMFG).

Two things. I would appreciate an explanation of their control electronics in our siege engines. Secondly, they can mount as big an army as they wish but the logistics of an attack across the oceans seem pretty formidable.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 40
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