quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixchild

Also, does positive re-enforcement or punishment get the slave more motivated to correct any wrong behaviour?

quote:

I suspect that recognition I give is why I so seldom have to do heavy punishments.

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixchild

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
I can see ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You bring up some excellent points. When i am serving someone, i try to quietly observe what He likes, and how He likes it. If i am unsure, then i will ask Him. When i do make a mistake (i am only human, and no matter how hard i try to perfect, i never will be), most of the time i punish myself more than if i had been physically beat. But there are times that even the Dom makes mistakes. Both sides need to remember that the other person is only a human being, and they need to be forgiving of each other. You can not control what another person feels, no matter how hard you try. You may be able to control their reaction to what they are feeling, but the feeling remains theirs. They need to work out those feelings, and if you did something to cause those feelings, then you should see what you can do to try to soothe them - no matter if you are Dom or sub.

quote:

I spank for play (how dare you come on my cock without permission!)

quote:

My current slave bought brown eggs on her 1st shopping trip. Unlike the other girl, I had not specifically asked for brown eggs so I asked her why. She said she got them because they were the kind of eggs she saw in the fridge and presumed I liked them. Good girl, now that is slavecraft. Be observant. Self training.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

Not everyone in a bdsm d/s relationship is a slave , or even a sub Op.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

The word "discipline" has many definitions and also depends on whether it is used as a verb or noun...

Let's see...
I have BEEN instructed.
I have BEEN corrected.
I have BEEN punished/disciplined (I use interchangeably)

In fact...I just "paid" my debt this weekend so now I am back on his good side!

quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss
Error

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixchild
Also, does positive re-enforcement or punishment get the slave more motivated to correct any wrong behaviour?

quote:

ORIGINAL: warlock1935

Great posts, good definitions. I especially liked @ChatteParfaitt 's note that Discipline can be a verb as well as a noun.
@phoenixchild noted that she beat herself up far more than her Dom did. I noticed that happening in my relationships, and I didn't like it - I don't like to see my sub suffering (Except when I'm playing or punishing her). I changed my Protocols to 1) subs now get punished for every infraction, even if they meant well. Almost all of my punishments are mild, a little ritual and five hand spanks on the butt - but I add a statement at the end to the effect that she is forgiven, and the Master's Forgiveness is absolute - the matter is forgotten, and will never be brought up again or held against them. The balance is restored, she's my good little girl as always. The principle of Acceptance is that she must accept her Master's judgement, and since he forgives her, she must therefore forgive herself. Since he says, and means, that as far as he is concerned, the balance is restored and the matter if forgotten, however, if she feels for one reason or another the balance is still out of whack, then she tells me, we talk about it, and find a way to deal with it.
It's certainly true that every relationship is unique and both must adapt to it, just as every submissive is different and the rules need to be flexible and adapt to what works best for that submissive. The above, however, in my relationships since I made those rules has worked well with all of them, even when a particular sub's makeup meant I had to modify a lot of other rules.
Regarding positive and negative reinforcement, the Behavior Modification research showed the ideal ratio is four positives to each negative, and I've found that feels pretty comfortable to me. My Rituals & Protocols (I'm High Protocol M/s) are designed to be easy to learn, and easy to remember and perform. Discipline in the sense of "the strength of character to be consistent on a daily basis" for me means even if I'm busy I pay attention to her and her service. Yes, I notice when she does something wrong, but my real focus is specifically so I see when she does something well and can let her know she's pleased me.
I suspect that recognition I give is why I so seldom have to do heavy punishments.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

I spank for play (how dare you come on my cock without permission!)

Actually,in my household, this would be a major transgression. This is a good example of how different relationships will lead to divergent responses

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixchild

Also, does positive re-enforcement or punishment get the slave more motivated to correct any wrong behaviour?

I pretty much agree with Kana's set of definitions, so I'll just address this part.

I would argue that neither is necessarily more effective to motivate him/her to improve their behaviour. The most important things for that are respect for the dominant, feeling that their needs are being met, and being in an environment which encourages success. If those three things aren't present, it doesn't matter whether you praise the hell out of them or beat them for minor infractions.

In order for me to comply with your wishes and work on my own performance, I MUST respect you (otherwise your rules seem pointless and I don't give a shit whether you're pleased with me). I MUST feel that my overall needs are being met by the relationship (otherwise I'm miserable and feel unimportant, so can't/don't care about how well I'm doing). And I MUST have a good chance at success, meaning you're not giving me unrealistic rules or constantly changing the boundaries or setting me up to fail (otherwise I will lose confidence in both myself and you).

Once those things are in place, obedience and self-correction should follow. Beyond that, it depends on the individuals. I like a combination of consequences and rewards, personally. I want him to notice my efforts and acknowledge my successes, but I also want to know he will hold me to the standards he expects and pull me up if I slip. All positive reinforcement would make me feel like a fragile child, all punishment would make me feel mistreated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixchild

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
I can see ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You bring up some excellent points. When i am serving someone, i try to quietly observe what He likes, and how He likes it. If i am unsure, then i will ask Him. When i do make a mistake (i am only human, and no matter how hard i try to perfect, i never will be), most of the time i punish myself more than if i had been physically beat. But there are times that even the Dom makes mistakes. Both sides need to remember that the other person is only a human being, and they need to be forgiving of each other. You can not control what another person feels, no matter how hard you try. You may be able to control their reaction to what they are feeling, but the feeling remains theirs. They need to work out those feelings, and if you did something to cause those feelings, then you should see what you can do to try to soothe them - no matter if you are Dom or sub.

Obviously I completely agree. If you ask the right questions, you can do incredible things, heartfelt things that are gratefully received. And yes, both sides of the kneel are human, should stand accountable and fix their mistakes in a way so that the other person feels "soothed". Nicely put.