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RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/27/2014 5:58:38 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyramus


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

It's brought out every single wanker in the universe.



Naah. Testosterone brought out every wanker.
The Internet just alphabetized the whole thing into a nice lookup table.
Porn has existed since time immemorial (ever take a look at Emperor Tiberius' castle on the Isle of Capri?).
The walls were covered in "instructional" porn for the slaves (including young'uns, unfortunately) who had to obey his perversities.

Just as man created sex toys, testosterone created porn.


I wasn't talking about sex or porn. I was speaking in the terms of D/s and M/s and the way it was before the internet started when there was a more cohesive view of things, where terms meant something and it was not all "whatever you want it to mean" shit. When there was more of a group togetherness, etc...



< Message edited by littlewonder -- 1/27/2014 5:59:38 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/27/2014 6:16:34 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter

Hi. I'm from the internet. I came of age in the late 80s and early 90s and grew up on bbs'es and in irc rooms. This created an interesting tension in my development, in the sense that although I always knew I had kinky mega-weirdo urges (my first sexual fantasies were of being bound and beaten by both MTV's Julie Browns while they wore tight leather and dangerously high heeled boots) the first time I saw bondage imagery outside of my own head was on a computer monitor. Likewise, I had no idea there were people involved in kinky lifestyles (beyond the occasional girl at my school who liked tying me up) until I started posting on boards and hanging out in rooms.

So I was not around in Ye Good Olde Days of the American kink-scene and I"m always curious, for those of you who have been around since Hector was a pup, what are some ways (for good or for ill) that the internet has changed the way people approach kink?


That is sooooo weird.....I'm from the tire store.

(in reply to HipPoindexter)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/27/2014 6:58:01 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		The biggest thing the net is doing nowadays is bringing everyone to the BDSM community that is seeking it, even on a whim. BDSM is now available instantly. Google it, hit the forums or chat rooms and you find a bunch of friendly people saying "come on in, the water's fine. We are SSC and you have nothing to fear." Next day, a new face appears in the crowd. And far too often, in their enthusiasm they are eager to share their moral judgements, limited knowledge and incorrect understand as valid information with other newcomers that don't know any better. As thus, we get watered down and the median shifts another notch towards the center.

In the past, most of the horny housewives or other stereotypical 'tourists' got weeded out long before they ever hit our doors. After reading a trashy sex novel like 50 Shades of Grey, they had to have the fortitude, dedication and an interest strong enough to go out to the underground sex shops and head shops to get the local magazines. Then they had to read the ads, find a club or event and their desire had to outweigh their fear of walking into the seedy unknown sexual underground. In "Ye Good Olde Days" our ranks were more fearless, less PC, far from SSC, much more exotic and a lot further left of center than we are now.

Nowadays, the horny vanilla wannabe that is just over the line, gets a wild hair up their ass one day and the next day they are in our midst. We are getting watered down, becoming politically correct and proclaiming to be, safe, sane and consensual.

I miss the seedy gay leather underground. Even the old pansexual communities still smelled like booze and cigarettes from their hard playing, heavy hitting gay roots. Nowadays, I hear people debate over the political correctness of drinking at a leather party . . . holy shit, what are we, a tea teetotaling church group that only does it in the politically correct missionary position while wearing safety gear?

littlewonder summed it up much more quickly than I did. "It's brought out every single [vanilla] wanker in the universe."

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/27/2014 8:29:24 PM   
Coupleator


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/27/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
I miss the seedy gay leather underground.


You do?

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/27/2014 9:44:24 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline 		Thankfully I'm such an introvert that some of my peer groups (I have different ones...nerds, intellectuals, jocks, etc...just people I share interest with and have spent much time with over the years) probably know more about me than my own family. (Weird thing to say perhaps but it's really a relief for me to be an enigma). I just never was really big on being "socially accepted", even as a child, not even by my own parents or peer groups. Just more focused on accomplishing personal goals.
A bit selfish? Perhaps. But I did inject myself into areas of the world community which struck my interest like political activism (my goodness, that era was life consuming...hours and hours of mind numbing research). But the world community to me is the only community I'm aware of (yes, I love ending sentences with prepositions, sue me).

There's just me and other humans, but I guess for people who have genuinely connected through social events within the lifestyle it's not the same. They share more than kink, they share friendship and a general understanding of each other and it's a seemingly very close knit group where people enjoy swapping notes and kinky jokes and generally just enjoying each other's company.
I am the opposite, I mostly socialize with people where I think less (a lot less) than when I am alone and I get to just share in camaraderie without any pressure, expectations or judgements.
Because my brain craves stimuli probably more than the average person, my activism satiated my time, my energy and my need to push my limits of my own personal knowledge (and distracted me from thinking about more tantalizing ways to do so).
I think the way I see the lifestyle is a bit different from those who have lived it as a part of a community for a long time, went through trials and vetting just to be a part of that. It is an accomplishment.
For me, it's quite different. I LOVE being alone most times, I don't like thinking about bdsm during my down time. Sometimes I just want to be a woman and not a Domme.
For me the lifestyle is about discipline, mental, physical and spiritual as well.
No one can tell me the way I do things is wrong, it just wouldn't happen because it guides my personal compass and soul. It has nothing to do with online or offline, it comes down to who you are as an individual as well.
I agree about the "50 shades of grey" comment. I honestly don't get the hype since bdsm novels have existed since as far back as one can remember but then it's all "sensationalism".
Something taboo is thrust into the spotlight (a very unrealistic version of it) and people are captivated without really having the understanding of all it entails.
THE GOOD NEWS is that as someone stated, there is Google, and thank goodness for it, because if they do have the same passion for the lifestyle then they can certainly research it and there is a TON of material. If there is genuine interest then there is hope that the lifestyle will continue to thrive as they mature.
Thankfully the internet was around when I was a teen (or unfortunately? I was contemplating being a nun at 15, haha...let this be a lesson, parental block), so I met my first sub online. I was 16 or 17 (still a virgin) and he was 37 year old corporate exec and we used to roleplay by phone and I liked it.
That combined with being one of the biggest net geeks out there (Yes, I can even write html code now, self taught) probably is what gravitated me to seeking subs online.

I was EXTREMELY CONFUSED by the Findoms and at the time they seemed to bombard every aspect of the lifestyle (I tried dommespace and did NOT like it for this reason) but then I tried more lifestyle friendly (less roleplay friendly) sites and was lucky to find a local sub, about my age and he showed me the ropes (pun intended). After that I was hooked! It was a truly enjoyable experience for us both and was shocked at his high grades since I mostly played by ear and did what "excited me".

So hopefully that gives people who have been doing the offline thing for a long time a different perspective on the invisible people like me who find their prey online and aren't the "posers" you see probably quite often over the years. :)
(I was definitely a hammerhead shark in a past life, if I stop swimming forward I drown)







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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 6:34:12 AM   
HipPoindexter


Posts: 188
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		This is something I hadn't thought much about and now I'm actually really interested. I had been thinking mostly of Ye Olde Past in terms of having to find out about clubs/parties and then showing up and finding a way to get invited in and to eventually be welcomed. My gf is much more of a scenester than I am and when she used to still drag me to events she'd always get invited to smaller after parties/limited access rooms/etc etc and so when I think of trying to searching for Kink without the internet I always imagine blundering around on the periphery of larger gatherings where kinky people are likely to go (punk shows for example) and just hoping somebody hands you a flyer to something or whispers an address in your ear.

Like, the way that I've gotten involved in things has always been to have a girlfriend/lover/friend first and then tag along with her. Having awesome girlfriends and friends is like having the keys to the kingdom. But I never had any idea how one would go about finding that one person back in the day.

What kinds of papers ran personals that you'd look through for fellow pervert-types? Like were they just hidden in plain sight, coded in the personals sections of bigger papers or did you have to go through alternative publications/zines/etc? I kind of romanticize this period when kink was more obscure and subterranean--these days the underground is so overcrowded.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

At the same time, the internet boom in bdsm is what fueled a sufficient audience for books about this. Back in the 60's there were no books. There was no way to ask questions.

People answered ads in newspapers to find a partner. Frequently showing up at someone's door with no idea what they looked liked or what would happen.

The internet allows you to find out so much more. Not just one person's idea of the way, but 20 different ways which quickly enforces the idea that there isn't one way, just the one that's right for you.



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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 6:39:53 AM   
HipPoindexter


Posts: 188
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

d . More than a few times, I was the only female in the room that wasn't a submissive or switch


Oy vey, I'd never really thought about this. What was that like?

Do you think it influenced your approach to relationships, and to playing with partners? I would imagine it had to have had a huge impact on your development.

Side question: At this time, were people less likely to identify rigidly as "dominant" or "submissive"? Was "switch" a thing people called themselves? Did people make clearer distinctions between being, for example "submissive" vs being "a masochist who is not really very submissive at all" or were they just as confused then as people are in the Internet Era?

This is all really fascinating to me.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 6:41:53 AM   
HipPoindexter


Posts: 188
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks for this. I was hoping that you, in particular, would respond and I'd be interested in reading any other thoughts, reflections, or recollections you feel like typing up!


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

The biggest thing the net is doing nowadays is bringing everyone to the BDSM community that is seeking it, even on a whim. BDSM is now available instantly. Google it, hit the forums or chat rooms and you find a bunch of friendly people saying "come on in, the water's fine. We are SSC and you have nothing to fear." Next day, a new face appears in the crowd. And far too often, in their enthusiasm they are eager to share their moral judgements, limited knowledge and incorrect understand as valid information with other newcomers that don't know any better. As thus, we get watered down and the median shifts another notch towards the center.

In the past, most of the horny housewives or other stereotypical 'tourists' got weeded out long before they ever hit our doors. After reading a trashy sex novel like 50 Shades of Grey, they had to have the fortitude, dedication and an interest strong enough to go out to the underground sex shops and head shops to get the local magazines. Then they had to read the ads, find a club or event and their desire had to outweigh their fear of walking into the seedy unknown sexual underground. In "Ye Good Olde Days" our ranks were more fearless, less PC, far from SSC, much more exotic and a lot further left of center than we are now.

Nowadays, the horny vanilla wannabe that is just over the line, gets a wild hair up their ass one day and the next day they are in our midst. We are getting watered down, becoming politically correct and proclaiming to be, safe, sane and consensual.

I miss the seedy gay leather underground. Even the old pansexual communities still smelled like booze and cigarettes from their hard playing, heavy hitting gay roots. Nowadays, I hear people debate over the political correctness of drinking at a leather party . . . holy shit, what are we, a tea teetotaling church group that only does it in the politically correct missionary position while wearing safety gear?

littlewonder summed it up much more quickly than I did. "It's brought out every single [vanilla] wanker in the universe."



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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 6:49:26 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
In "Ye Good Olde Days" our ranks were more fearless, less PC, far from SSC, much more exotic and a lot further left of center than we are now.

For organized groups, I'd probably have to go with that.

quote:

Nowadays, the horny vanilla wannabe that is just over the line, gets a wild hair up their ass one day and the next day they are in our midst. We are getting watered down, becoming politically correct and proclaiming to be, safe, sane and consensual.

And that, right there, is why.

quote:

I miss the seedy gay leather underground. Even the old pansexual communities still smelled like booze and cigarettes from their hard playing, heavy hitting gay roots. Nowadays, I hear people debate over the political correctness of drinking at a leather party . . . holy shit, what are we, a tea teetotaling church group that only does it in the politically correct missionary position while wearing safety gear?

I came in much later than you. I don't really have 'gay' leather roots. My time was around the pansexual era. Looking back now, or even what I see today, I don't know if that's ever really going to work. We still seem so far apart.

Yep. I still remember the old booze and cigarette days. Truth be told, I miss that stuff. Today, you can find more 420 friendly places than if you have a drink on the patio. We had a good time. Nobody died. I have yet to meet the person who went to the ER because of their exploits. Sure. You heard stories.

Do you know what I miss the most? The way we took care of our own. If there was one thing I could have back, that would be it.




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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 7:49:52 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter

quote:

d . More than a few times, I was the only female in the room that wasn't a submissive or switch


Oy vey, I'd never really thought about this. What was that like?

It was...... Odd.

It was scary. I didn't know shit back then. What in the hell did I think I was doing sitting at this table of men?

Was I scared sometimes? Yes. There were other female Dominants in Denver, but that didn't help Me. I was a whole world away.

quote:

Do you think it influenced your approach to relationships, and to playing with partners? I would imagine it had to have had a huge impact on your development.

I think it was better. I got over that 'outside influences' crap faster than most.

When I first started out, I didn't "play". In fact, most folks who knew Me back then would probably be shocked at who I am today. My sadism had to be inspired from within Myself. Not because other people told Me that I had to have it.

quote:

Side question: At this time, were people less likely to identify rigidly as "dominant" or "submissive"? Was "switch" a thing people called themselves? Did people make clearer distinctions between being, for example "submissive" vs being "a masochist who is not really very submissive at all" or were they just as confused then as people are in the Internet Era?

Even more rigid. It was all about Masters and slaves. Back then, switches were people who didn't know what they wanted and they were just "getting off" any way that they could. Not accepted like they are now.

If you asked Me what I thought the greatest change was in the leather community..... I'd have to say it was about love. It's only been in these past few years or so that it was accepted, preferred even, to love the person that serves you. When I first came in, nobody talked about that. In the here and now, it's different.

quote:

This is all really fascinating to me.

Perhaps. BDSM, I have always felt, really does have leather roots.

For all that I wish I would have had, coming in through the net isn't one of them. Sure, I could have learned easier..... Made fewer mistakes..... But, if I had, I wouldn't be talking to you here, today.





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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 8:47:31 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
In "Ye Good Olde Days" our ranks were more fearless, less PC, far from SSC, much more exotic and a lot further left of center than we are now.


To exacerbate and confound the stupidity further, you have online forum cliques with members that have several hundred posts on their avatar that have taken it upon themselves, due to their longevity, to create a delusional forum etiquette, police said etiquette, hand out scalding memos on said etiquette, and then get all butt-hurt when you wipe your ass on the memo and hand it back. Then said clique goes on a hell bent mission to ostracize you for having the audacity of being you and not the mindless "one of them".

This forum, as well as others, have this bizarre "solar flux". Cliques form with enough people to rally together, buying into the delusion that they can brow-beat people into their fantasy etiquette where the air doesn't move. Then when the stupidity reaches critical mass they flee to the R/L scene, cannot figure out why their warped etiquette isn't flying offline, then crawl back here to regroup, reform, and work towards critical mass all over again.

Jus sayin
Exiled

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 9:18:05 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

I miss the seedy gay leather underground.

I remember several times being the only totally straight guy at a party. I can be quite sadistic toward males so it didn't matter. People just don't understand that Sadism isn't necessarily about sex.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 11:03:55 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		My good old days were in London and they were good old days for me because those were the times when I found the scene exciting. I no longer find the scene particularly exciting and I don't know if that's because of the changes or me personally. I suspect its me!

I certainly don't think the new scene is a lame and tame lot. If anything they are a lot more extreme than we used to be. Branding has become intricate needles and wax play have become beautifully creative, bondage has become such an art form that Newashis now travel the globe doing demos and classes. To be notable one has to come up with something new, something extreme and because there's little else to bring forth into the public eye people take more risks to gain the attention they desire. There are so many people wanting their own claim to fame when it comes to BDSM techniques. You could do a workshop on something fairly radical such as saline infusions and weeks later at least one in your audience will be advertising their own workshop on the very subject they knew little about only weeks before. I don't remember that happening so much in my 'good old days' but I'm sure we were the instigators on what's happening today, there were just less of us and so things moved more slowly.

I'm still sometimes shocked by the new generation and it takes a lot to shock me. Morbid fascination has me looking at groups like, 'extreme violence' on FL

BDSM used to be a lot simpler. Its now very much intermingled with a thousand fetishes which makes D/s and S/m a small particle of something much bigger. One of the reasons I remain here is, the regular D/s and S/m people are more purist in their thinking of BDSM. If I want to know and learn about other kinks I go to FL





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RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 12:02:38 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Finding BDSM on the Internet (sometime late 90s I think) was refreshing to me. Up until then I thought there was something very wrong with my wiring. Sure it was full of Castle Realmy bullshit, but it was my path to interacting with others who had similar sex/relationship desires, and I am glad for it.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 2:49:23 PM   
Darkfeather


Posts: 1142
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter

What kinds of papers ran personals that you'd look through for fellow pervert-types? Like were they just hidden in plain sight, coded in the personals sections of bigger papers or did you have to go through alternative publications/zines/etc? I kind of romanticize this period when kink was more obscure and subterranean--these days the underground is so overcrowded.


Back in the days porno stores were popular, they used to have trade papers of all kinds. Swingers, exhibitionists, BDSM, Watersports, etc. In the back of these you could run personal ads tailored to the specific genre, or in the general adult personals one. They were about the size and shape of the New York Post, had pics and stories, cost about 2 bucks

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 5:26:40 PM   
HipPoindexter


Posts: 188
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

That is sooooo weird.....I'm from the tire store.


Oh yeah, I thought I recognized you! Hey! You look different when you're not wearing that Marshmallow Man costume and holding up a sign about the sale on snow tires!

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 7:53:04 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter

Side question: At this time, were people less likely to identify rigidly as "dominant" or "submissive"? Was "switch" a thing people called themselves? Did people make clearer distinctions between being, for example "submissive" vs being "a masochist who is not really very submissive at all" or were they just as confused then as people are in the Internet Era?

This is all really fascinating to me.


When I started out, before the internet, there were clear distinctions. It was not all "whatever you want to call yourself". There was a slave, a submissive, a Dom/Domme, a Master/Mistress, Tops and bottoms and switches/kinksters/fetishists. Oh and also sadists that could be applied to doms/dommes and Master/Mistress and masochist that could be applied to subs/slaves. All had definitive meanings.

But once the internet came into being people seemed to want to just fit in somewhere even if they were not what was described. It became like high school where the geek wanted to be popular and hang out with the jocks so they do whatever it takes to fit into that role even if it really doesn't describe them at all. It's not who they are but hey! It sounds cool, huh?



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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 8:01:56 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Do you know what I miss the most? The way we took care of our own. If there was one thing I could have back, that would be it.



You know what I miss? There was none of this "meet at a coffeeshop, check him out carefully, he might try to kill you". We simply met people...wherever. It could have been you were introduced by someone, you met them at a party, you met at a bar and did what every normal, hot blooded person did, No one worried about going to his/her home or safe calls or any of that. And you know what? I don't remember anyone dying or even being harmed. Yeah, there was still the drama of "He lied to me" or "he whipped me too hard" but that's all it was....drama. Couple weeks later and everyone moved on.

It just wasn't the frightened world that the internet has made it all seem it is today.


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Aspects of internet BDSM that bled out into real life. - 1/28/2014 8:20:00 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Do you know what I miss the most? The way we took care of our own. If there was one thing I could have back, that would be it.


You know what I miss? There was none of this "meet at a coffeeshop, check him out carefully, he might try to kill you". We simply met people...wherever. It could have been you were introduced by someone, you met them at a party, you met at a bar and did what every normal, hot blooded person did, No one worried about going to his/her home or safe calls or any of that. And you know what? I don't remember anyone dying or even being harmed. Yeah, there was still the drama of "He lied to me" or "he whipped me too hard" but that's all it was....drama. Couple weeks later and everyone moved on.

It just wasn't the frightened world that the internet has made it all seem it is today.


What I miss from the old days is that adrenaline rush of meeting someone new for the first time. You are right in that there was no pre-meeting to see if the person is safe. You agreed to meet and you did. Not at a coffee shop but her dungeon or a private dungeon. I miss my heart racing from the moment I got up that morning until the time I actually meet the Domme in the evening. Ringing the door bell not knowing what the Domme even looked liked. That would never happen today :(

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 39
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