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Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 5:09:34 AM

pg4g

Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
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Hey everyone,

I'm seriously considering attending a munch in the next couple of weeks, but I wanted to know what I can expect when they find out I'm a switch. I've heard a lot about a lot of members of the BDSM community viewing switches as "not real", "not committed" and other somewhat derogatory stances. I suppose I want to know for my own sake what I should expect...

What in your experience is the general BDSM community view regarding switches?

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 5:48:32 AM

FieryOpal

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Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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With your being out in Australia, I don't have much of a clue. Here in the U.S., it may vary in different parts of the country. The West Coast has its own cultural peculiarities in terms of higher tolerance, but I haven't been out there in a solid 25 years.

I do stay in communication with folks who are scattered throughout, and the few who are switches have told me they don't get treated with as much respect as Dominants, but with slightly more respect than if they said they were submissive (males in particular). I wish that weren't the case and this is my limited sampling.

A lesbian switch in the UK tells me that straight Doms give her a hard time on occasion. But that might be because she is lesbian and quite attractive. It could be sour grapes.

Please don't be discouraged that I don't have more positive feedback for you. The gay community may be more receptive to a switch's flexibility in Topping and bottoming, thus giving switches a greater appeal.

ETA: Just recalled that within his tight circle of British friends, a male sub I've known for a while has mentioned they could care less who's what other than which one wants to Top the other. This is a younger crowd (25-35). He often gets mistaken for a Dom or switch. Per the two postings below, I think there is more of an on-line bias than in person.

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 2/11/2014 6:34:31 AM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 6:04:49 AM

AlexisANew

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I think the 'switches are not real' brigade tend to be more an on-line thing. Lots of switches go along to the munches I attend and I see them getting paid the same respect everyone else does.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 3

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 6:10:34 AM

RedMagic1

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Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexisANew
I think the 'switches are not real' brigade tend to be more an on-line thing. Lots of switches go along to the munches I attend and I see them getting paid the same respect everyone else does.

I also think "switches aren't real" is largely online posing. I'm pretty sure all the lifestyle events I've been to included at least one master who used to be a slave, or vice/versa. Human beings are rich and complex, more than one thing at a time. Statements like "there's a natural order, some people are dominant and others are submissive, and switches are just confused or dishonest," is a comment from the internet.

Of note, in Old Guard BDSM communities, new members started out as boys (bottoms) and worked their way up to Masters/tops. So changing role has been with BDSM for longer than "naturally" staying in the same role has.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to AlexisANew)

Post #: 4

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 6:22:31 AM

Ilyrium

Posts: 189
Joined: 10/2/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g
I'm seriously considering attending a munch in the next couple of weeks, but I wanted to know what I can expect when they find out I'm a switch.

Nobody's gonna care. If it's a well attended munch, their will be all types of folks there anyway.

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 5

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 6:34:57 AM

AlexisANew

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Joined: 2/10/2014
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RedMagic is right.

Go along and be proud of who you are. If anyone makes a snide comment and I doubt they will, just smile and move away.

Personally I tried really hard to switch. Try as I might, I just couldn't do it but that doesn't mean I won't be able to at some time in the future! 'Never say Never' is my philosophy. I also think that people who turn their noses up at switches are missing out. The switches I know are probably the most open minded people I have had the pleasure of meeting on the scene.

Unfortunately I think a lot of online switches aren't liberal with the truth. They often have a submissive profile and a dominant profile and those profiles never merge. I have been chatting to a submissive guy on here and letters have been going back and forth but this morning I got a letter from his dominant profile (obviously he made a mistake). Nowhere in that profile does he say he is a switch.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 6

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 7:02:18 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
I'm pretty sure all the lifestyle events I've been to included at least one master who used to be a slave, or vice/versa.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't, but is a gradual move from one pole to the other quite the same thing as switching roles depending on who you're partnering at the moment?

_____________________________

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 7

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 7:03:31 AM

mnottertail

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My community view is that they switch.

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Post #: 8

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 7:17:37 AM

DarkSteven

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I'm a bit confused. At a munch, there is no play. So I'm not sure how you being a switch even means anything.

Alexis has a point. In the online world, "switch" frequently means "I don't know/care what orientation I claim to be, but I want to hedge my bets and try to get attention from both sides."

Go ahead and find out. Worst happens, you leave. But I can tell you that in the Colorado scene, there's no looking down on them.

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Post #: 9

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 7:25:20 AM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
I'm pretty sure all the lifestyle events I've been to included at least one master who used to be a slave, or vice/versa.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't, but is a gradual move from one pole to the other quite the same thing as switching roles depending on who you're partnering at the moment?

I'm familiar with two definitions of a BDSM switch:

1. Someone who alternates between topping and bottoming -- flexible in play.

2. Someone who can take on either the dom or sub role in a relationship, and makes that choice depending on the chemistry with the other person. Inside that relationship, the switch might not be flexible in play.

So (1) is sort of like "kinky" and (2) is sort of like "bisexual."

There's also a third category, which I've especially seen among dominant women. That is: someone who is vanilla or sub in their primary relationship, but who also dominates a submissive or submissives in a secondary relationship. I've never heard those people called switches, but they aren't just one thing either.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 10

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 7:43:37 AM

AlexisANew

Posts: 103
Joined: 2/10/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

There's also a third category, which I've especially seen among dominant women. That is: someone who is vanilla or sub in their primary relationship, but who also dominates a submissive or submissives in a secondary relationship. I've never heard those people called switches, but they aren't just one thing either.

I know so many women like this. I think at least a few of them are pimped out as pro Dommes by their Masters/Dominants. Others dominate whilst their dominant sits on as a spectator. Its a titillation thing. Others still will dominate the second sub that comes into the poly household, whilst remaining totally submissive to the man.

So many men have approached me over the years and suggested I must submit to my partner behind closed doors

I think its because its such a common occurrence.

< Message edited by AlexisANew -- 2/11/2014 8:19:47 AM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 11

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 9:09:53 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
I'm pretty sure all the lifestyle events I've been to included at least one master who used to be a slave, or vice/versa.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't, but is a gradual move from one pole to the other quite the same thing as switching roles depending on who you're partnering at the moment?

I'm familiar with two definitions of a BDSM switch:

1. Someone who alternates between topping and bottoming -- flexible in play.

2. Someone who can take on either the dom or sub role in a relationship, and makes that choice depending on the chemistry with the other person. Inside that relationship, the switch might not be flexible in play.

So (1) is sort of like "kinky" and (2) is sort of like "bisexual."

There's also a third category, which I've especially seen among dominant women. That is: someone who is vanilla or sub in their primary relationship, but who also dominates a submissive or submissives in a secondary relationship. I've never heard those people called switches, but they aren't just one thing either.

Absolutely right, but I thought you were talking about something else at first: people who started off playing one role but then found that it didn't suit them (or perhaps they outgrew it) and so changed to the other. I thought that was what you were talking about in the comment I'd quoted, which is why I'd questioned if people who'd shifted from one role to the other but seem pretty comfortable in their new one are going to be considered switches. It's something you see a fair bit (particularly as people tend to change as they get older), but it always struck me as more a permanent change than any form of switching, hence my question about it.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 12

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 11:40:01 AM

pg4g

Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I'm a bit confused. At a munch, there is no play. So I'm not sure how you being a switch even means anything.

I'm wondering if I'm going to be looked down upon. Sort of like how when I go out for a drink with my work colleagues and then they find out their masculine friend happens to like other men, not women. It's not about the play. I'm just concerned about social prejudice.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 13

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 12:29:15 PM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I'm a bit confused. At a munch, there is no play. So I'm not sure how you being a switch even means anything.

I'm wondering if I'm going to be looked down upon. Sort of like how when I go out for a drink with my work colleagues and then they find out their masculine friend happens to like other men, not women. It's not about the play. I'm just concerned about social prejudice.

You really don't have anything to worry about. There are personal preferences in choosing one's own partner, but it's nothing personal or against all switches. IMO there are more switches than will admit to it, or who limit their switching with a special partner to the exclusion of others. This is not uncommon from what I've seen with bisexuals--sub to their primary, Dominant with the other gender, for example.

Btw, I always thought of munches as non-play, non-sexual social gatherings in public places. I once heard a woman, an experienced kinkster, refer to the play party we were at as a "munch." I didn't want to be using the word improperly so I asked her about this. She said yes in most cases but that it could be used in a broader sense. I don't (not to be a stickler), so as not to cause any confusion or false expectation in newcomers, and I'm inclined to agree with DarkSteven on this.

As for the third category RedMagic1 mentioned, there seems to be quite a lot of this with submissive men, or maybe they're just vanilla men who want to bottom. Their spiel is usually "I'm an Alpha male at work but want a woman to dominate me at home." Going by sheer numbers alone, there can't possibly be that many Alpha males running amok!

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 14

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 12:40:27 PM

SoulAlloy

Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline

From my experience of munches in the UK usually at least half the attendees identify as switches (either because they're still exploring or genuinely like both sides)

It'll possibly depend on the munch you attend (e.g. you sometimes get dedicated munches, femdom munch, spankers munch, petplay munch, etc.) but I doubt people would judge you badly for being a switch

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(in reply to FieryOpal)

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RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 3:08:59 PM

pg4g

Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

As for the third category RedMagic1 mentioned, there seems to be quite a lot of this with submissive men, or maybe they're just vanilla men who want to bottom. Their spiel is usually "I'm an Alpha male at work but want a woman to dominate me at home." Going by sheer numbers alone, there can't possibly be that many Alpha males running amok!

Perhaps not alpha's, but society pushes male stereotypes of dominance. This, I'm sure, has an effect on men, pushing them to need a release in losing control at some times. Perhaps they aren't truly submissive, but that is their emotional release from dominance.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 2/11/2014 3:09:32 PM >

(in reply to FieryOpal)

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RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 6:49:37 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

What in your experience is the general BDSM community view regarding switches?

Thanks

I view switches I guess like I do Tops and bottoms. They like the fun, the sensations, the role plays, and fetishes, but not really the D/s and definitely not M/s. I don't think that's bad. It's just not what I'm interested in and not what I was looking for when I was single. Since I hate to dominate and I'm monogamous, having a partner who is a switch would be a limit for me.

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RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 7:22:47 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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I've always believed that no one is 100% dominant or submissive.

Imagine how fucking ugly that would be:

One of the main traits of a dominant is that they like things done their way. If someone were 100% dominant, there would be no quarter given on almost all issues.

Conversely, someone who is 100% submissive (I would think) would be a person who never takes a stand (I've posted about this in re parenting). That could be equally ugly.

So, I believe that all of us are "switches" to some degree or another. I'm not talking about the kink, per se; I have no love of pain but played two years of rugby at the "young" age of 33-35. The pain was intense. I didn't so it for the pain. I did it for the game.

What I mean is in the actual inter-personal relationships, we all "switch" to some degree or another.

Now, you're worried about people looking down their noses at you? I would say that comes from insecurity; much like the "straight" man that doesn't want to associate with a gay man. It's not "homophobia". It's insecurity about their own sexuality. I would say anyone that treats you poorly is because they're not all that secure in their own path.

In other words: Fuck 'em ... right where they take their soup.

Good luck,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/11/2014 7:24:12 PM >

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RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 7:34:18 PM

pg4g

Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I view switches I guess like I do Tops and bottoms. They like the fun, the sensations, the role plays, and fetishes, but not really the D/s and definitely not M/s. I don't think that's bad. It's just not what I'm interested in and not what I was looking for when I was single. Since I hate to dominate and I'm monogamous, having a partner who is a switch would be a limit for me.

If I'm a switch, I'm not interested in D/s?

I have an innate need to be dominated, controlled, restrained and commanded. But I also have an innate need to control, to command, to dominate the man who would otherwise be strong enough to dominate me. I find a man who I can dominate, AND who can dominate me like that, to be extremely beyond all things attractive. That couldn't carry over into a relationship because there's a conflict between my desire to control all the time, and my desire for them to be in control all the time. But the desire is there, and often surfaces as conflict/jokes/prodding between us.

Does that mean I'm not interested in D/s, or am I really into it but the conflict of desires only allows it to be played out to it's fullest at different times?

I don't mean to put down your views at all :) I just think I find that one completely off-base with what I feel I need.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 2/11/2014 7:36:18 PM >

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 19

RE: Community views on switches? - 2/11/2014 7:39:47 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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for me personally, that's not how I define D/s. It's not about being restrained or controlled and everything to do with one person being a dominant personality and the other a submissive personality and if you can change your personality from one to the other, I think most psychologists would see that as a double personality. LOL

What you describe to me, at least how I read it, sounds like you are talking about sex and play.

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Post #: 20

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