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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 7:06:46 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nukldo

Want the opinions of you all please. Was speaking to another Dom and he state that portions of the movie "12 years a slave" was like watching porn to him. So, to keep out of jail, I walked away from him vice smash his face in. Am I alone in thinking that the two are completely different?



You wanted to smash his face him because he saw parts of a movie as porn? Now I haven't seen the movie so I might have agreed that he was an asshole to think that but smashing his face in is a bit extreme. Can't you just disagree with someone without resorting to violence.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 7:20:46 AM   
dcnovice


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FR

This topic brought to mind a then-new poster's first foray into the BDSM threads.

Do we romanticize slavery?

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 7:23:48 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nukldo
Want the opinions of you all please. Was speaking to another Dom and he state that portions of the movie "12 years a slave" was like watching porn to him. So, to keep out of jail, I walked away from him vice smash his face in. Am I alone in thinking that the two are completely different?

You're not alone. At one point I judged goreans harshly because they grooved on stories about kidnapping, rape, and torture. Then I grew up. Fantasy and reality are not the same thing. Sometimes the roots of fantasy are pretty dark. It still doesn't connect the fantasy to reality.


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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 7:30:35 AM   
MsMJAY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

Your questions and answers switched between I and we:

quote:


I never lose sight of the fact that being sadist I get off on inflicting pain. We can make it consensual, give it rules and name it adult "play" all we like. It is still the very much one human being getting off on the physical and mental suffering of another human being. Do we lack compassion? Perhaps. Have we conditioned ourselves to give an arousal response under certain stimuli? Perhaps.


I don't mean to be a smartass, but that's why I thought you seemed to move from you to all of us.

And your definition on what people are getting off on is rather specific: the infliction of the pain itself. The dictionary terminology left quite a bit of room for what element of the causing pain or hurting the other that was actually enjoyed by the sadist.


By we I didn't mean sadists but everyone in the lifestyle in general as in WIITWD. We have rules about what we do. (and before you state it, yes I know individual personal rules may vary.) and that we may or may not lack compassion or perhaps be eliciting a biological response.

I agree the dictionary definition may leave room. I did state that others may relate to it differently on a personal level.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 7:45:40 AM   
pg4g


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

By we I didn't mean sadists but everyone in the lifestyle in general as in WIITWD. We have rules about what we do. (and before you state it, yes I know individual personal rules may vary.) and that we may or may not lack compassion or perhaps be eliciting a biological response.


My mistake, and I didn't mean to offend by the bolding. I'm just used to arguments where people start denying what they said, even if it is in the page in front of them. I was simply pointing to where the changes took place.


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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 7:50:37 AM   
FieryOpal


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Here, this might help:

sa·do·mas·o·chism noun
1. interaction, especially sexual activity, in which one person enjoys inflicting physical or mental suffering on another person, who derives pleasure from experiencing pain.
2. gratification, especially sexual, gained through inflicting or receiving pain; sadism and masochism combined. Abbreviation: S-M, S and M
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sadomasochism

Sadomasochism is the giving or receiving of pleasure—often sexual—from acts involving the infliction or reception of pain or humiliation. A subset of BDSM, practitioners of sadomasochism usually seek out sexual gratification from these acts, but often seek out other forms of pleasure as well. While the terms sadist and masochist specifically refer to one who either enjoys giving pain (sadist), or one who enjoys receiving pain (masochist), many practitioners of sadomasochism describe themselves as at least something of a switch, or someone who can receive pleasure from either inflicting or receiving pain.

The abbreviation S&M is often used for sadomasochism, although practitioners themselves normally drop the & and use the acronym SM or S/M. Sadomasochism is not considered a clinical paraphilia unless such practices lead to clinically significant distress or impairment for a diagnosis.[1] Similarly, sexual sadism within the context of mutual consent should not be mistaken for acts of sexual violence or aggression.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism

Per American Heritage Dictionary: The combination of sadism and masochism, in particular the deriving of pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting or submitting to physical or emotional abuse.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/sadomasochism
http://www.answers.com/topic/sadomasochism

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 11:37:23 AM   
Nakhla


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I think, for the most part, humans should be judged on their actions, not their impulses. When I hear someone say something that annoys me, I want to hit them. When I'm in bakery, I want to eat everything there. When I'm in a high place, I want to jump off and watch the view go by as I sail down. I don't do these things because I know the consequences, not because the emotion isn't there.

I get off on guys having power over other guys. Consensual or non-consensual, safe or dangerous, real or acted, it simply is. It doesn't mean I approve of it, it just means it turns me on.

( The opposite exists in me as well. No matter how consensual it is, women being on the receiving end of sadism still gives me the creeps. Intellectually it's fine with me in a consensual setting, but watching a really hardcore scene even between friends can be emotionally uncomfortable. )







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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/16/2014 4:32:55 PM   
MercTech


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Ok, I haven't seen "12 Years a Slave" but the discussion has me thinking....

Would this guy also consider "Hostel" to be porn?

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/16/2014 5:01:04 PM   
kiwisub12


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Eww - one of the few movies that I had to walk out on. Nasty graphic violence and it was wayyyy too graphic for me - BUT if someone got turned on by it, then I would rather they watched Hostel and got a boner, than went out and actually did it.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/16/2014 7:38:00 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

At the risk of getting my face smashed I have a confession to make. That scene in Django where they tied up Kerry Washington and whipped her? - fucking hot! I mean that woman + that body + that scene = fucking hot.


Ya, and I watched it on only my second or third date with my man and, having met on OKCupid, we hadn't yet disclosed to each other how depraved we were (although both knew the other was kinky.) I think I may have grabbed his arm during that scene...

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/16/2014 7:52:04 PM   
kalikshama


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Speaking of Hostel, we watched Hostel 2 together a few months ago. While we found some scenes titillating, we wouldn't describe it as porn.

Here's an article arguing that it's not "Torture Porn:"

Free Speech and the Concept of "Torture Porn": Why are Critics So Hostile to "Hostel II"?

...The Cases of "Hostel" and "Hostel II": Anti-Violence Movies Wrongly Labeled "Torture Porn"

For example, it's hardly controversial to convey, as "Saving Private Ryan" did, that it's tragic when soldiers die in a just war. But it is very controversial indeed to say that even the most civilized-seeming people may be lawless sadists underneath, and that this sadism isn't aberrant; it's just an intensification and distortion of other elements in our culture.

Yet that's exactly the message of "Hostel" and "Hostel II" - a message seemingly lost on those who label the movies torture porn. Unfortunately, when these films receive that label, the movies' commentary about the violent extremes that seemingly-civilized people never reaches part of its potential audience, for would-be viewers may boycott the films based on this reductive and unfair label.

Both "Hostel" and "Hostel II' comment on the stereotype of naïve American innocence and jaded European experience. Critics highlight this kind of commentary when it appears in classic literature, but tend to ignore it when they discuss the kind of movies they tend to consider beneath them, and only condescend to review. To illustrate the contrast between brash America and weary Europe, both movies depict small groups of young Americans traveling abroad (men in "Hostel"; women in "Hostel II"). Both groups have an ugly surprise waiting for them: They will be tricked into being the victims of a club, based in Eastern Europe, at which otherwise unremarkable but extremely wealthy men and women torture and kill for sport. Even if the Americans escape, their illusions of safety and privilege will be permanently shattered.

In both movies, there is no possible question about whom the audience is rooting for. "Hostel" has a hero, and "Hostel II" a heroine; both use their wits to escape. No one's sensitivities are spared with respect to the violence to which the lead characters' friends fall prey, and that they themselves either suffer or come close to suffering. In both movies, the lawless parts of the world, where anything can happen and any service is available for a price, are clearly condemned - with "Hostel II" making a very explicit reference to several real-world societies teetering on the edge of total anarchy.

The club members, too, are presented as repellent human beings, pumping themselves up for murder as they would for a sports game or hunting trip. They kill and torture out of weakness, not strength; they are despicable. (One man spews the misogyny he cannot voice in front of his wife, in front of a helpless victim who takes her place.) They are also addicts: In "Hostel," one satisfied club member comments of the charnel house where he's just murdered someone, "You could spend all your money in that place." In "Hostel II," two club members discuss their prior sex tourism, implying that they may well be child molesters in addition to being murderers.

Make no mistake: These are the dregs. And yet, with their athlete-like pumping-up rituals and locker-room bonding, and their hunter-like indifference to the fact that their "prey" has nothing remotely like a sporting chance, they can be uncomfortably familiar, too. And this is where the movie's message comes in: These aren't monsters, they are human being who have let their darkest tendencies go much too far, and who even revel in them shamelessly. Perhaps they are even encouraged by American culture to do so. Their relationship to violence is akin to the relationship of the Michael Douglas character, Gordon Gekko, in the film "Wall Street" to money: Greed is good, and no more explanation need be given.

It thus seems very questionable, then, to deem these movies morally inferior to, say, the Oscar-winning "Silence of the Lambs" -- which makes Hannibal "The Cannibal" Lecter so sympathetic that we laugh at his puns about "having a friend over for dinner" and cheer his escape. Again, apparently the tacit masterpiece exception applies - or perhaps the movie's lack of realism regarding Lecter's cannibalism saves it; that violence all occurs off-screen....

Read more: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hilden/20070716.html

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/17/2014 2:05:52 AM   
WorldsWorstMan


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That was a really good take on the Hostel movies, and films in general.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/18/2014 12:11:15 AM   
ThePrincessKali


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I personally find race play offensive. I grew up in a predominately Caucasian town and I'm bi-racial. I dealt with a lot of racism growing up. If someone else is into it that's their own business but I would never participate and I don't like being asked about it. So when I see a movie like 12 years a slave I don't see the D/S aspect I see the racial aspect. I haven't seen that specific movie but I've seen movies with slavery involved and the torture that African American slaves endured. I wouldn't slap someone who got off on it. But if a partner revealed to me they were turned on or thought of it as porn I would definitely reconsider dating them.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/18/2014 4:52:50 AM   
Greta75


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I feel turn on by alot of rape scenes, whether I read it on the news or watch it on a show.
But I got to say, that German one with Monica Belluci getting ass raped in the underground tunnel. That was the only rape scene I ever seen that I felt horror and revulsion instead of sexual arousal. I thought it truly portrayed the terror of real rape and not tried to make it look sexy. Perhaps it's the cold way he kicked her and walked off after he cummed in her ass, that made it clearly look like his just brutalizing her and there is no way to get any pleasure from this.

So I suspect, alot of other programs sex it up.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/18/2014 4:54:59 AM >

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/18/2014 5:04:59 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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Did you know the actors who played the rape scene you described are married to each other (or were when that movie was filmed)? What a a day at the office.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/18/2014 6:22:54 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Did you know the actors who played the rape scene you described are married to each other (or were when that movie was filmed)? What a a day at the office.

Wow! Really? What great acting! I really thought the guy was crazily brutal with her.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/18/2014 6:36:26 AM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Did you know the actors who played the rape scene you described are married to each other (or were when that movie was filmed)? What a a day at the office.


Actually, Monica Bellucci is married to Vincent Cassel who also starred in the movie, Irreversible.

But he was not the rapist. He went after the rapist.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 2/18/2014 6:40:12 AM >

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/18/2014 7:45:43 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Actually, Monica Bellucci is married to Vincent Cassel who also starred in the movie, Irreversible.
But he was not the rapist. He went after the rapist.

Okay, that made more sense now. It's just that the rapist appear extremely unattractive for Monica Bellucci ha. It would be strange pairing.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/18/2014 9:07:45 AM   
SweetAnise


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To the OP, I saw '12 Year A Slave.' and read the book and find nothing erotic about it. It was difficult to watch and much different than DJango Unchained (which QT made me laugh at some of the scenes because he purposely put it there). Steven McQueen purposely made scenes uncomfortable in 12 Years... and more real. There was nothing to laugh at and I left the theater feeling that a truth had been stamped on everyone.

Now...I have seen some fictional movies where I was quite turned on for example the movie The Cell when Lopez was chained to the bed...beautiful sexy scene. The movie Agora (based on truth) when the slave asked his Mistress non-verbally to slay him, when he killed his Mistress upon approval by her, and when he was whipped- strangely erotic.

But I find it difficult to be turned on by Nazi scenes even when I have seen porn on it. Or anything depicting black slavery such as BDSM plantations.

But to each his or her own. I guess.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/18/2014 10:05:27 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAnise

To the OP, I saw '12 Year A Slave.' and read the book and find nothing erotic about it....
Now...I have seen some fictional movies where I was quite turned on for example.... The movie Agora (based on truth) when the slave asked his Mistress non-verbally to slay him, when he killed his Mistress upon approval by her, and when he was whipped- strangely erotic.

But I find it difficult to be turned on by Nazi scenes even when I have seen porn on it. Or anything depicting black slavery such as BDSM plantations.

But to each his or her own. I guess.

In "Agora" I kept hoping Greek philosopher-mathematician Hypatia would have sex with her slave, until he started turning into a douchebag terrorist thug. But the mercy-killing scene where he held her stripped-naked body close and suffocated her so she could escape her horribly brutal impending fate was strangely intimate. Not a turn on by any means, but moving.

No, nothing erotic about recent accounts of slavery and murderous atrocities. Now in the film "Unbroken" Angelina Jolie directed, there is that love-hate dichotomy between the Serbian officer who keeps the Bosnian woman imprisoned in his bedroom. The difference there is that it was portrayed as a love story.

The same with the classic "The Night Porter," which brought BDSM to mainstream audiences. I was just a kid then, so I only saw the ads. I mistook Charlotte Rampling for being a Dominatrix in her Nazi-themed outfit and I recall now that I was aroused by that thought invoked by those images at only around 10 years of age.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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