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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/7/2014 11:02:48 PM

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Haha! Lady Pacts reaction to that thread...

"From the title I thought this may have been an interesting thread...
Oh well back to the normal forums, happy holidays." (Mockwotation)

On a serious note, can someone direct me to the pictures of Ishtar that everyone was talking about!
And Arturas, what was the purpose of linking this thread? I'm at a loss what point your trying to make.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/7/2014 11:43:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Haha! Lady Pacts reaction to that thread...

"From the title I thought this may have been an interesting thread...
Oh well back to the normal forums, happy holidays." (Mockwotation)

LOL yeah. I love looking through old threads like that. So many memories, and reading my own posts back then, I'm not sure the forums enjoy that I'm no long owned... my posts where a lot less *cough* sharp back then (which by the way, you have no idea how much trouble and effort it took for Bull to keep my tongue in an appropriate frame for a kajira to post in

)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

On a serious note, can someone direct me to the pictures of Ishtar that everyone was talking about!
And Arturas, what was the purpose of linking this thread? I'm at a loss what point your trying to make.

Below is the picture the post Arturas linked to talks about.

Attachment (1)

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I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
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You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/7/2014 11:46:37 PM

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And this is the picture that has caused him to be convinced that Bull used a bullwhip on me.

Note that it's been explained to him several times (back when the pic was still on my profile even) that the black rope looking thing is indeed that: rope. It's a nylon horse tether fastened to my collar, on which Bull had me perform a tether dance at his gathering in '09, which is the dance ElizabethAnne refers to in the thread I linked to.

Both of these used to be on my 'ishyB' profile, but I took them down years ago, though the first one still can be found (stolen) on several free porn-pic-collection sites all over the web.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 3/7/2014 11:54:14 PM >

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I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 12:56:58 AM

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Thanks for sharing Ishtar.
That dance looks pretty physical!

I'm still not sure how this old disagreement is pertinent to the current thread.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 1:17:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

That dance looks pretty physical!

Yeah, I had bruises on my neck the next day. The dance is supposed to symbolize the kajira's dilemma between her desire to seek out and flee from submission. The dance starts out reluctant, hesitantly, adversely even, far away from the Master. As the dance continuous the girl moves closer to him, and as she does, he reigns in the tether more and more, sometimes actively pulling, other times just enticing her to come closer... until she realizes she's getting trapped, and tries to flee with all her might (which is where full on bucking against the tether caused the bruises) only to find herself even closer to him in the end. With the dance ending in full obeisance at his feet.

It was one of the most meaningful moment of my life, and my relationship with him. Especially because I can't dance worth shit, not before and not after, and somehow he managed to *will* me to dance and it was beautiful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

I'm still not sure how this old disagreement is pertinent to the current thread.

Artie has a long time goal to somehow discredit Bull as being a Gorean/man/Master/whatever, and therefore me also. He's continuously on the hunt for 'contradictions' to point out in either one of our posts, even if he has to blatantly make them up. He's in the past gone so far as to claim Bull and I have never actually met, and our entire relationship was made up, though it's been a couple years since he's come up with that blatant of drivel.

He's done the same thing with Orion on several occasions, most prominently about the photoshopped picture Orion used to have as his main picture.

Because of this he currently feels the need to continuously bring up I used to be a slave, as if that's somehow not already well know, or something I'm hiding, and point out any 'contradictions' between what I currently say about Bull and/or Goreans, and about posts that were made years ago. As you've noticed in this thread, accuracy isn't really important to him, and even if I proof that he's making shit up, he'll still repeat the same nonsense in a later thread, even if it already has been discredited. This nonsense about Bull using a bullwhip on me while dancing has been brought up about half a dozen times now, and the only reason I still bother to set the record straight when he comes up with new nonsense is because I've gotten confused questions from other people just about every time I don't bother doing that.

I don't really know why it's so important to him, but my speculation is that it revolved around his insecurities with star don't obeying him, and him being relegated to being a service Top out of desperation to keep the woman interested in him.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 3/8/2014 1:26:17 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to ARIES83)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 7:25:31 AM

Kana

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Picture one is a freaking flogger! And we all know that floggers are the Nerf of BDSM
Pic two, look at his hands, how he's holding the rope-it's clearly not a whip. But I remember when I first saw that shot I thought it was. Also thought it was an incredibly hot pic.

quote:

It was one of the most meaningful moment of my life, and my relationship with him. Especially because I can't dance worth shit, not before and not after, and somehow he managed to *will* me to dance and it was beautiful.

That's beautiful in itself, touching even.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 4:48:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

That dance looks pretty physical!

Yeah, I had bruises on my neck the next day. The dance is supposed to symbolize the kajira's dilemma between her desire to seek out and flee from submission. The dance starts out reluctant, hesitantly, adversely even, far away from the Master. As the dance continuous the girl moves closer to him, and as she does, he reigns in the tether more and more, sometimes actively pulling, other times just enticing her to come closer... until she realizes she's getting trapped, and tries to flee with all her might (which is where full on bucking against the tether caused the bruises) only to find herself even closer to him in the end. With the dance ending in full obeisance at his feet.

It was one of the most meaningful moment of my life, and my relationship with him. Especially because I can't dance worth shit, not before and not after, and somehow he managed to *will* me to dance and it was beautiful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

I'm still not sure how this old disagreement is pertinent to the current thread.

Artie has a long time goal to somehow discredit Bull as being a Gorean/man/Master/whatever, and therefore me also. He's continuously on the hunt for 'contradictions' to point out in either one of our posts, even if he has to blatantly make them up. He's in the past gone so far as to claim Bull and I have never actually met, and our entire relationship was made up, though it's been a couple years since he's come up with that blatant of drivel.

He's done the same thing with Orion on several occasions, most prominently about the photoshopped picture Orion used to have as his main picture.

Because of this he currently feels the need to continuously bring up I used to be a slave, as if that's somehow not already well know, or something I'm hiding, and point out any 'contradictions' between what I currently say about Bull and/or Goreans, and about posts that were made years ago. As you've noticed in this thread, accuracy isn't really important to him, and even if I proof that he's making shit up, he'll still repeat the same nonsense in a later thread, even if it already has been discredited. This nonsense about Bull using a bullwhip on me while dancing has been brought up about half a dozen times now, and the only reason I still bother to set the record straight when he comes up with new nonsense is because I've gotten confused questions from other people just about every time I don't bother doing that.

I don't really know why it's so important to him, but my speculation is that it revolved around his insecurities with star don't obeying him, and him being relegated to being a service Top out of desperation to keep the woman interested in him.

quote:

Artie has a long time goal to somehow discredit Bull as being a Gorean/man/Master/whatever, and therefore me also.

I'm not sure why you think this thread must be about you. Or Bull. Or imagine anyone would have a goal to do something like this or even do something like this to anyone using an online forum0. I did however wish to stop the pure negativity found in the Gorean forum as is now found, even today. Sadly.

quote:

I don't really know why it's so important to him, but my speculation is that it revolved around his insecurities with star don't obeying him, and him being relegated to being a service Top out of desperation to keep the woman interested in him.

If it was important to me then I would actually talk about it a great deal more, I should think, don't you? You however have doubled the size of this thread with something that is very unimportant to anyone besides you.

As far as my relationship with Star goes, imagine as you wish. Or don't imagine and instead read the journal.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 3/8/2014 4:59:45 PM >

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 5:27:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
dancing to the touch of a bull whip for ex-Gorean slaves.

Still that nonsense?

As said many many times before, that never happened. Bull didn't have a bullwhip at the time we were together, nor would he have used a whip for leisure on me. Besides that, anybody who would attempt to use a bullwhip on a dancing, moving target without an agreed choreography is out of their mind. Even the type of experts who can hit a cigarette butt with a bullwhip couldn't pull off what you claim happened.

Of course. In this linked post..

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2277515

...you are describing a whip owned by your "master", and it is decidedly Bull at that time, and not a flogger nor a BDSM short tail whip, since we know Bull hates anything BDSM...

the very same guy who used to sign his posts with a bull whip icon at that point in time.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1662978

Not that I really give a damn except that it is fun to play and fun to win and oh by the way, it was a bull whip originally in the picture, as Kana also said, and I see a photo shopped copy posted above.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 3/8/2014 5:32:55 PM >

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 5:34:37 PM

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...except it is fun to win out there and not so much here, do I get bit coins or something if I win here?

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 6:11:35 PM

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Fisting links anybody? Is this some public spanking fetish?

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 6:39:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Of course. In this linked post..

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2277515

...you are describing a whip owned by your "master", and it is decidedly Bull at that time, and not a flogger nor a BDSM short tail whip

Nods, the Kurt (Gorean style whip) he used for punishing me. I got the misfortune of being beaten with that thing about half a dozen times.

He made it himself, out of deer hide I believe. It's a flogger with five blades, about an inch wide, and about a foot and a half in length I would guess.

Not a bullwhip...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

since we know Bull hates anything BDSM...

He does? Man that's news to me. And here I thought he had always had at least a vague interest in BDSM, considering that he's got multiple friends in the leather community, has taken me to leather events with him, and even *gasps* sorta did some BDSM play with me himself, after a friend of his -who he'd lend me to for a play session at the time- piked his interest in electrical play.

He's never been much of a fetishist himself as far as I can tell, but the way I recall, he's always been comfortable around BDSM and the BDSM community.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

the very same guy who used to sign his posts with a bull whip icon at that point in time.

He still has that whip icon currently: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4607077

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Not that I really give a damn except that it is fun to play and fun to win and oh by the way, it was a bull whip originally in the picture, as Kana also said, and I see a photo shopped copy posted above.

Yeah, sure... photoshopped. Man I wish I could photoshop hand positions and stuff that well. I could make quite a career out of doing that.

I think you need new glasses darling... That's a nylon horse tether attached to my collar...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 3/8/2014 6:43:35 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Arturas)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 8:27:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
Not that I really give a damn except that it is fun to play and fun to win and oh by the way, it was a bull whip originally in the picture, as Kana also said, and I see a photo shopped copy posted above.

You have mistaken what Kana has said.

I try to stay even handed in my treatment of people. It's true in the past there have been some immature, passive aggressive, petty and lowly things said to you by posters on this forum, and at times I have pointed out to a few posters that their conduct was lacking in those instances.

I look down on it as well, your not alone in that. You however bring out the worst in people. I have seen it time and time again.

In my opinion, your interest in this Ishtar/Bull thing is unhealthy and weird, but I don't really know what's going on so you can take that opinion with a grain of salt.

Regardless of past histories. Your making a fool of yourself in the present.

You aren't winning anything, you are coming off as butthurt about something and petty and it doesn't look or seem possible that the photos have been altered in the way you suggest.

What is the bone of contention around whips that you are all gnawing on anyway?? You of all people should know, that if a master wants to whip his slave, he would make no bones about it.

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 3/8/2014 8:52:59 PM >

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 10:06:30 PM

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huh? Eeerr...Master did NOT call it a whip. He said it was a flogger and a rope. Arturas, maybe you need to go back to reading comprehension.

Sorry but you are sadly mistaken in what Master wrote.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/8/2014 10:16:42 PM

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I must say this picture brought a smile to my face.

Just a little clarification to assist Ishtar in her explanation.

The nylon rope in the picture, which mind you isn't photo shopped, is a lunge line. Horse trainers use it to exercise their mounts; walking, trotting or cantering them in a circle around the trainers fixed although rotating position. Many of you may have seen a similar practice by horse acts in the circus. It's important to point out that the trainer may or may not utilize a lunge or buggy whip to motivate the mount, if necessary, but I've never seen anyone use a bullwhip for said purpose. Ishtar hardly ever lacked in motivation and a whip, while poetic on its own might be counter productive to the objectives of the tether dance.

I am disappointed in one thing. That such a magical and memorable moment between a man and his girl is drug through the mud over the selfish interest of a man that claims to be above the very practices he openly utilizes. To be sure, this dance is meant to be a crowning achievement for a girl and her would be master. Ironically it is actually a moment in which a girl discovers self interest is no longer a desire to be held unto her.

Now I can't be one hundred percent sure if Ishtar would still be my girl, but I feel, looking back on that night, her response to it and to me as well as the feelings it all inspired she might still be, that is if I had been able to invest the additional time necessary to continue the mastery process. You see the possession of a girls heart is a detailed and ongoing process, mastery is not accomplished in just the directing of positions, the tying of bonds, the barking of orders or the placement of collars.

To align this commentary with the thread we find ourselves within. This dance is an artistic example of "slave" positions. It isn't simply a single stance or form of structure, it is meant to demonstrate the reality of her surrender to both her master and also to his girl. While Ishtar might think she is unable to dance, not a single person present, to including myself would agree. Her body embraced the poetry of dance, her soul sang and her heart surrendered to the obvious nature of her being. It was awe-inspiring to a degree that I assure you not many have witnessed before or since. So while it was not a singular position, it did as intended and expressed the position of "her heart" or as the books like to refer to, "her belly".

To briefly re hi-jack the thread in an effort to speak for myself.

I do find much about the Leather Community and the practice of various disciplines within the constructs of BDSM to be of interest. I in fact do fancy the use of a single tail and bull whip, as well as having interest in other disciplines. Ishtar is one of the very few people on this globe I do not fear spreading the word of the man she knew or what I was about.

So in conclusion, if she and another person were to be disputing or representing opposing facts, I can assure you that I'd be hard pressed to stand beside anyone other than she.

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/9/2014 1:28:22 PM

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FR,

This thread has been briefly locked to allow posters the chance to read this warning:

In order to allow some posts that are related to the OP to remain, I am leaving the hijack. However, moving forward, ensure your posts do relate to the OP, or normal thread drift, which does not include bullwhips v floggers, etc.

If you have any questions, you may email me, but do not respond on this thread.

(in reply to xBullx)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/12/2014 9:59:55 PM

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Can this be considered normal thread drift?

To Bull and Ishtar, that sounds like a lovely experience. "The Dance" sounds like such a beautiful thing. What a wonderful thing you shared with us from your culture.

quote:

I do find much about the Leather Community and the practice of various disciplines within the constructs of BDSM to be of interest.

We can learn from each other. I'm no great speaker of the leather community, but I do what I can.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/13/2014 6:23:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leashedlaura

this slave obedientlaura has a serious question with regards to gorean BDSM

Well, you're confused because Goreans don't think of themselves as practicing BDSM in the sense that the BDSM community sees it, though yes, some Goreans engage in BDSM.

So your question actually has nothing to do with Gor or with slave positions. Your concern appears to be how your husband treats you.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/13/2014 6:43:45 PM

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quote:

In my opinion, your interest in this Ishtar/Bull thing is unhealthy and weird, but I don't really know what's going on so you can take that opinion with a grain of salt.

I'm pretty sure I did not express any interest in "this Ishtar/Bull" thing at any time. I remind you it was ishy who went off on two or three words in my post to the OP and I made the mistake of replying to her. AS far as the picture of her and Bull with a bull whip, I know what I saw but never cared if she wants to admit it or not and it is simply a non-issue with me but a great one with her base on her postings, she did double the size of the thread with the hi-jack so who has the obsession, she or I?
I cannot bring out something that is not there to begin with.

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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/13/2014 7:01:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
AS far as the picture of her and Bull with a bull whip, I know what I saw but never cared if she wants to admit it or not and it is simply a non-issue with me

If it's a non-issue to you, then stop spreading lies about me.

You mistook a rope for a bullwhip. Apparently so did Kana at some point. What reason would I have to lie about having done it, IF it happened, and IF I posted picture evidence about it at one point, then why would I now deny it?

You are wrong.

It was a rope.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Arturas)

RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 3/13/2014 7:17:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Of course. Because you, like Star, are in love as all perfect slaves are to their perfect master who to be perfect must love his "slave".

So, I see you have evolved past the storybook roles and you wish him to evolve also into that master who shares his love and his dreams, his joys and his tears and touches you in ways a perfect master can while he leaves the self focus behind and comes to the understanding each perfect master comes to, that he who is a perfect master does not command and take but instead shares of himself in his natural role and you in yours without commands being necessary or desired.

They are not necessary or desired because ritualistic commands and such things as physical collars and slave positions provide a structure where one does not exist and enforce a relationship that does not come naturally to both of you and so we and you evolved out of that because they are not necessary except to reinforce a mastery that should not need reinforcement by making his "slave" do tricks like slave positions or dancing to the touch of a bull whip for ex-Gorean slaves.

So, this now comes back to the slave from Maryland who is naturally ready to move past morning slave positions and evolve by taking one last slave position, take his hand and tell him you love him and you are a slave to his heart and not his head and need his very special touch rather than his command.

See then if he is the perfect master.

Well wishes,
Arturas and Star

I think you've hit the nail on the head with OP. She has evolved, but her Master-husband hasn't, won't or can't move forward to that level. He may not ever have the inner capacity to grow in expressing the kind of love with his slave-wife that she needs, wants, and desires to become closer to her Master. This is probably why she felt compelled to ask others' opinions in order to understand his motivations, so she would be better equipped either to find a way to reach him or to cope with her circumstances. Many of us are reading our own interpretations into her situation because we can sense her desperation. This husband is not made of stone, but this wife is not feeling loved and cherished as a woman, regardless of her slave status.

If only this Master and other Masters could be more like you are with your Star and Kana is with his littlewonder.

ETA: Both your slaves live with the safe assurance of not being harmed because neither of you would break your toys.

Resetting before the high jack. Thank you for these kind words. We're still together here since meeting here in 2008 and are engaged and have a little one. I did focus on things like slave positions and collars and in my journal you will see those trappings of our early relationship but we moved past that when it simply got to be ridiculous and shallow compared to things like true passion, love, sharing and being together. While we do enjoy BDSM activities I don't require protocols or use of the word "master" and she no longer wears a collar in public as she did some times to please me and I believe her also at that point in time.

Well wishes to you and the OP.

_____________________________

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(in reply to FieryOpal)

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