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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 12:04:34 PM   
AlexisANew


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/10/2014
Status: offline 		In a full on fight there is no bottom and there is no top. If its been defined that one is the bottom and one is the top, then surely you have pre empted the result?

Im dominant but when I consensually fight, I'm a fighter and dominance has nothing to do with it. Its about taking chances.

My partner and me have been known to consensually fight, in fact at one point we were at it on a very regular basis. Sometimes I won because I used to be a pretty freaking good kick boxer and sometimes he won because he's physically more powerful than me and so his punches could flaw me. The one thing we never did was hold back during a fight.

It was me that backed out in the end, I don't know if it was because id gotten over something I needed to get out of my system or because I was sick of us having to clean the blood of the walls but I was the one who eventually put my hands up and said, 'Enough' lets move on.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 12:30:34 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I feel as though you may be being a bit facetious though I may be wrong, and apologize if I am being overly sensitive. If you are though I would like to know if I have in some way offended you as I would like to make amends.


Not offended at all.

Maybe I should clarify my reply to needles, I think sex drive is primal, the urge to have sex, it has resulted from the desire to procreate, but by having different sexual leanings, I don't think that it all down to procreation, even if that was/is the primary motivator, but that wouldn't take into account homosexual leanings or preferences for oral or anal sex, so I don't think we can narrow it down to procreation, even if it initiated from that...

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 2:21:10 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Ok, I think we got off track. Whether you consider it a sexuality itself, a role, a style, who cares? It's just a name for some type of BDSM activity.

"Primal" activity as a BDSM term is rough, dirty, and allows for instinctual reaction to dominance. Some identify with animals. I identify with an inner fighter, unevolved masculine nature. Barbarian or caveman. It's just in my nature to fight.

It doesn't fit into the classic roles. No true submissive, in the mainstream form, because submission isn't easily volunteered.

I seek hunter and prey, I'm taken down sometimes unaware till I'm being tasered, cuffed, angry, fighting. Sometimes it's a gaze over the table at dinner that I want to challenge him.

As was said, the fight isn't always for the submissive to end it. Sometimes it's about pushing the dominant cos they want to see their strength. I often fight to push him up a few notches. To see him push harder, dominate over my challenge.

Doms should look out for subs who are primal - a primal sub can break a standard dom. Primal subs live to push their doms. Think of a brat on steroids. They're pushing the dom to fight harder. They want more. Doms often can't handle the challenge, and should be aware who they're dealing with. Don't just feel like you're not getting through to them: this is their nature, not a classic submissive.


< Message edited by pg4g -- 3/6/2014 2:22:28 PM >

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 2:35:10 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

Doms should look out for subs who are primal - a primal sub can break a standard dom. Primal subs live to push their doms. Think of a brat on steroids. They're pushing the dom to fight harder. They want more. Doms often can't handle the challenge, and should be aware who they're dealing with. Don't just feel like you're not getting through to them: this is their nature, not a classic submissive.


I wouldn't have an issue with that, but all too often people fly under a false flag, my think is more S/M, and trust me, if I don't like the maso, I am not getting involved, somebody who would claim to be one thing but turn out another and would want me to fight all the time, it wouldn't be my thing, I approach BDSM with "those are the things I want - you roll with them, let's talk" then there is chemistry and personal boundaries, again, really not looking as I got a really cool relationship and 2 subs/masos I play with regularly, one of them I found shopping, the other while watching a play at the theatre, if you are a woman into BDSM, you really can't go wrong unless you are incredibly entitled, crazy or ugly, not being mean but just how it works, games by numbers and trust me I am picky.... I'm not into the classic submissive, I don't mind a fetish as long as it meshes with my fetish, seriously, if they are into struggling or fighting all the time, not my thing, nothing wrong with it but then say what you expect and need. Why waste each other's time? Frustrating for both sides.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 3:00:37 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Post deleted.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 3/6/2014 3:20:18 PM >

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It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 3:01:57 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		If the idea of primals is to be a fuckin contentious brat.............fuck that.  kick that shit to the curb in less than a minute, who needs that sort of shit.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 3:04:46 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g


Doms should look out for subs who are primal - a primal sub can break a standard dom. Primal subs live to push their doms. Think of a brat on steroids. They're pushing the dom to fight harder. They want more. Doms often can't handle the challenge, and should be aware who they're dealing with. Don't just feel like you're not getting through to them: this is their nature, not a classic submissive.



There isn't much here that I can agree with. What you describe is power struggle between two people that is manifests itself from their primal instincts. But not all primal activities in BDSM are a power struggle. I personal don't enjoy or seek to engage with a person in primal play that wants to the primal power struggle. I much prefer the primal forces of the sex drive and bonding that can occur in primal play.

Your absolute of primal suns pushing Doms is just simple wrong. Sure some individuals are very much are like that. But all.... Well that is just silly.

Secondly,... What the hell is a classic submissive? Seems like just another useless label in my view.


Some people just want hot Klingon sex!

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 3:07:35 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		OP.... Copy and use my writings as you desire..... I am on fetlife as well with the same nic.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 3:26:07 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

There isn't much here that I can agree with. What you describe is power struggle between two people that is manifests itself from their primal instincts. But not all primal activities in BDSM are a power struggle. I personal don't enjoy or seek to engage with a person in primal play that wants to the primal power struggle. I much prefer the primal forces of the sex drive and bonding that can occur in primal play.

Your absolute of primal suns pushing Doms is just simple wrong. Sure some individuals are very much are like that. But all.... Well that is just silly.


You're right. I apologise.


_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 5:34:10 PM   
VideoAdminChi


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		Since discussions of homosexuality in animals and veterinary care hijacked this thread, posters who wish to have that conversation should start a new thread in Off Topic. Feel free to write for your posts on those subjects back.

This thread is about Primal BDSM.

quote:

So I recently found myself being told that primal was probably my sexuality. I was describing how I could Dom if needed, and how I technically sub (Thought Im a smart ass) when needed to. I described how to me it was all about the fight and the struggle and how thats what made sex fun and actually makes relationships more fun to me.

My friend knows me pretty well I guess and she said I was probably primal, and thats cool and all but I mean I would like to learn more about Primal. I have myself tagged as it on FetLife cuz it "feels" right but I cant find a whole heck of a bunch telling me what it is objectively. Is everything I described like the objective parts of what primal is or is there more? Less? I dont know.


(in reply to ChasingMyTale)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 6:24:20 PM   
Blonderfluff


Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline 		Okay. So I've read this whole thread, and I need to ask. Does "primal" ALWAYS refer to the fighting back and struggling thing? Because in my experience, primal has meant biting, clawing, growling animalistic coupling. Meaning (in my preferred dynamic) He becomes Captain Caveman, Tarzan, and a horny Lion, all rolled into one. I don't fight back, but there is a lot of growling going on. That has always been what I have referred to as "primal".

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 6:38:19 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Okay. So I've read this whole thread, and I need to ask. Does "primal" ALWAYS refer to the fighting back and struggling thing? Because in my experience, primal has meant biting, clawing, growling animalistic coupling. Meaning (in my preferred dynamic) He becomes Captain Caveman, Tarzan, and a horny Lion, all rolled into one. I don't fight back, but there is a lot of growling going on. That has always been what I have referred to as "primal".


No, and I wanted to clear this up but the thread was locked!!!

Ok, I didn't express myself well. I'M SO SORRY!

Primal seems to best be said as "instinctual", at least from what I've seen. There may be roughness, animalistic, biting, growling, forcefulness. Whatever floats your boat, but just letting definitions and roles fall away and just running on instinct.

In my case it's rough, dominance, growling, I bite a bit (but he doesn't... fuck would that man bite me while he fucks me? PLEASEEE!!!!!) and for me my instincts are switchy. Fight for top. This one role is VERY difficult for most people to get, so i don't fit a role.

Do fights happen in all primal play? Absolutely not, I'm sure. But in nature fighting is a little bit natural, ey? Look at a lion take his mate, or a wolf, or how an animal takes its prey. There's a roughness or a fight, depending.

But hey, it could just be love bites, or a little feeling of "mine" and taking this person as your own, or loving being claimed like that in an instinctual way.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 3/6/2014 6:39:59 PM >

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Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 8:55:55 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g


Primal seems to best be said as "instinctual", at least from what I've seen. There may be roughness, animalistic, biting, growling, forcefulness. Whatever floats your boat, but just letting definitions and roles fall away and just running on instinct.




I think this answers blonderfluff's question well. I would also add that in being instinctual there tends to be less of a conscious considered thought process leading up to the actions themselves. The thought or maybe the impulse comes and one tends to act on it. How those impulses manifest themselves in the play can be from uncontrolled laughter and taunting to outright physical aggression in a variety of ways.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 3/6/2014 9:08:21 PM >

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 9:02:35 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I wrote this over five years ago when the Primal was alittled word for many. Hope it helps.....
<snip>
--===================
[Sorry for the snip!]
Thank you so much, KnightofMists, for explaining in detail, because I had only heard passing remarks about primal play from others. I can see that this isn't what would apply to me because there is too much of a playful nature woven throughout my past interactions. (Although it did occur to me to ask whether any of you accidentally break out in laughter or does your/their composure always remain steadfastly serious? If that's too personal a question, feel free to disregard it.)

Well, I can't delete what I've already posted. Is there such a thing as Fluffy* Playful Primal? Bad joke.

* Use of term "Fluffy" compliments of LP <curtsies>



Yes... Definitely yes.... I believe there is a misconception from some that primal need be intense physical aggressive. It is true that it tends to be the more common version of primal play people witness or engage in. But I think of primal play as I said in above more of an impulsive response of those that engage in it. Besides all the physical aggression my girls have responded with in my play. They have also retorted with language that makes me shake my head and more than once on the ground laughing.


Ps... My girls have also broken down into tears and uncontrolled laughter. The first makes sense when you hurt them incredibly bad... But the latter... Well that is just fucked up ;)

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 3/6/2014 9:04:55 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 9:08:59 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Haha yeah, playfulness is kind of built in. Watch David Attenborough, and you see all the animals play. We have those baser fun natures built in - we just cover them.

I'm a smartass. I play incessantly.

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/7/2014 12:09:33 AM   
AlexisANew


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/10/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff

Okay. So I've read this whole thread, and I need to ask. Does "primal" ALWAYS refer to the fighting back and struggling thing? Because in my experience, primal has meant biting, clawing, growling animalistic coupling. Meaning (in my preferred dynamic) He becomes Captain Caveman, Tarzan, and a horny Lion, all rolled into one. I don't fight back, but there is a lot of growling going on. That has always been what I have referred to as "primal".


No, fighting within BDSM doesn't have to be primal. We fought within the context of BDSM because it was a BDSM act but it certainly wasn't primal, it was just fucking hot at the time!

What you describe, at least for me, is a good definition of primal.

I used to have a fem sub who would go beyond a certain point and then start to growl or chant. To others this may sound stupid but we both recognised it as something coming from deep inside and they were highly emotional moments.

Once we were being quite intense when she suddenly started letting out this very piercing scream. To be honest it scared the life out of me because it was so blood curdling. When we sat chatting after she just sat smiling and saying, I reached in and found something I didn't know was their and I feel fantastic. Was that something primal happening?

These are the sort of things I think of as primal and I believe we are all capable of getting to that place but BDSM for some, helps them get their quicker.

I don't see someone who acts up, is demanding, aggressive, fights back and so on as a primal submissive, I see them as an aggressive submissive or a feisty submissive. I would see them as someone who found it difficult to let go rather than the other way round.



(in reply to Blonderfluff)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/7/2014 4:20:50 AM   
Blonderfluff


Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline 		Thanks Alexis (great post btw). Yes. For me, when I go "primal" it's really a time when my most basic instincts take over. That, for me, means that when my partner bites, ravishes, growls, TAKES, I go very deep into submission. This goes beyond average " he's in charge " power exchange. I BECOME the conquered female. It is incredibly powerful, and life affirming.

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Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.



I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/7/2014 6:57:25 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Yes... Definitely yes.... I believe there is a misconception from some that primal need be intense physical aggressive. It is true that it tends to be the more common version of primal play people witness or engage in. But I think of primal play as I said in above more of an impulsive response of those that engage in it. Besides all the physical aggression my girls have responded with in my play. They have also retorted with language that makes me shake my head and more than once on the ground laughing.

Ps... My girls have also broken down into tears and uncontrolled laughter. The first makes sense when you hurt them incredibly bad... But the latter... Well that is just fucked up ;)

Nothing wrong with getting silly or some comic relief (hopefully not when you're getting kneed in the groin).

Whew, then I wasn't thinking in the wrong terms, and it doesn't always have to be a Fight Club scenario. Nor should we get hung up on labels or terminology, as long as it doesn't add to any confusion.

I agree, AlexisANew, that a no-holds barred consensual fight with your partner doesn't have to be primal, but I'm sure primal/animalistic instincts kick in.

When I was married, we liked to wrestle but didn't cross over into battle mode. No contest there, nor with my last sub. I'm not petite, more like the lower end of average, but I used to be athletic so I can hold my own. I don't fight dirty so the biting, scratching, clawing and kicking didn't get extreme. I suppose then, that there is an Extreme Primal, then more like Tarzan-mode à la Bonderfluff's version, which is closer to the spectrum with mine--but in mine Jane is an Amazon.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/7/2014 10:06:25 AM   
DanielleofMists


Posts: 57
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Yes... Definitely yes.... I believe there is a misconception from some that primal need be intense physical aggressive. It is true that it tends to be the more common version of primal play people witness or engage in. But I think of primal play as I said in above more of an impulsive response of those that engage in it. Besides all the physical aggression my girls have responded with in my play. They have also retorted with language that makes me shake my head and more than once on the ground laughing.

Ps... My girls have also broken down into tears and uncontrolled laughter. The first makes sense when you hurt them incredibly bad... But the latter... Well that is just fucked up ;)

Nothing wrong with getting silly or some comic relief (hopefully not when you're getting kneed in the groin).

Whew, then I wasn't thinking in the wrong terms, and it doesn't always have to be a Fight Club scenario. Nor should we get hung up on labels or terminology, as long as it doesn't add to any confusion.

I agree, AlexisANew, that a no-holds barred consensual fight with your partner doesn't have to be primal, but I'm sure primal/animalistic instincts kick in.

When I was married, we liked to wrestle but didn't cross over into battle mode. No contest there, nor with my last sub. I'm not petite, more like the lower end of average, but I used to be athletic so I can hold my own. I don't fight dirty so the biting, scratching, clawing and kicking didn't get extreme. I suppose then, that there is an Extreme Primal, then more like Tarzan-mode à la Bonderfluff's version, which is closer to the spectrum with mine--but in mine Jane is an Amazon.



When we play it brings out who we are to the core of us. Our personalities, our strengths, our weaknesses, our character, our sense of humour, our sexuality etc all come out and our connection, energy exchange and passion are tangible. Within that comes every sort of reaction imaginable, our play is fun, intense, powerful and my reactions continue to surprise me.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/7/2014 11:41:19 AM   
Miyani


Posts: 248
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If the idea of primals is to be a fuckin contentious brat.............fuck that.  kick that shit to the curb in less than a minute, who needs that sort of shit.


Quoted for truth. I'm all about primal, animalistic "relations," and tend to define my D/s in a pack sense in some ways - alpha and beta wolf, when it's not queen and knight. But the beta wolf knows their fuckin' place, once they're shown it. And once I show my boy his place and what is expected while he's in it, I will not tolerate a continued "struggle" to keep him there. Wrasslin' for fun is one thing, but if he's not enough of an adult to behave himself, if he doesn't want that place bad enough to stick to it, I do not have the time.

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