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With friends like these.... - 3/9/2014 3:01:08 AM

Kirata

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The cross, found standing amidst the indescribable chaos, was part of a T-beam that survived the collapse of the World Trade Center towers.

Last year, a New York judge threw out a lawsuit by American Atheists seeking to deny the cross a place in the 9/11 museum. "The plan has been to display this as one of hundreds and hundreds of artifacts... because it is part of the history," the museum's lawyer said, and the judge agreed.

But now the same group is at it again, still trying to float the ridiculous claim that the cross is not a historical artifact and that including it in the museum would constitute an "impermissible mingling of church and state." One can only wonder if they are actually trying to make Atheists disliked.

K.

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< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/9/2014 3:27:02 AM >

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/9/2014 7:12:43 AM

jlf1961

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The cross was not made as a cross, it is the remains of a steel structure in the shape of a cross. So what if a priest blessed the damn thing? Warships are blessed at launching, does that make them churches?

And yes, there are religious symbols in city, state and federally owned museums all over the damn country.

For that matter, atheists are buried in national cemeteries, which is consecrated ground, thereby making it holy, sacred.

And the first asswipe that says we need to do something about those because they are in violation of the constitution should be strung up by their <insert body part here> and left for the buzzards.

Besides this cross might have traces of that superthermite the conspiracy theorists have been screaming about.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 3/9/2014 7:13:28 AM >

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/9/2014 8:15:31 AM

Tkman117

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As an atheist/agnostic (still not sure which one I am at this point) I think it's absurd these atheists were getting all bent out of shape about a hunk of metal. It's just bitching for the sake of bitching. If people find comfort in it, and if it really was from 9/11, then I see no problem putting it in the museum.

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/9/2014 8:55:20 AM

anniezz338

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

I think it's absurd these atheists were getting all bent out of shape about a hunk of metal. It's just bitching for the sake of bitching. If people find comfort in it, and if it really was from 9/11, then I see no problem putting it in the museum.

I feel the same way. Though I also am not religious, there is something very solemn about it and it has definitely earned its place in the museum.

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/9/2014 9:14:51 AM

MercTech

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Fanaticism, no matter the cause, can lead to an evil disregard for others.
Fanatical atheists are just as obnoxious as the bible thumpers that harass you on Saturday mornings.

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/9/2014 10:59:53 AM

Tkman117

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Fanaticism, no matter the cause, can lead to an evil disregard for others.
Fanatical atheists are just as obnoxious as the bible thumpers that harass you on Saturday mornings.

Completely correct. Extremism on either side of the spectrum is bad. There needs to be a balancing act between the two otherwise things just get ridiculous.

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/11/2014 7:02:11 AM

Kirata

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All across America you will see roadside memorials placed by family and friends where a loved one died. Given that the majority of the U.S. population is Christian, they are usually crosses - but not always, of course. One of them was along a roadside in Lake Elsinore, CA.

But that one is gone now, because the dead boy's mother was threatened with a lawsuit by The American Humanist Association.

In May 2012, 19-year-old Anthony Vincent Devaney was struck and killed crossing Lake Street. In December of that year, the family erected the memorial. A complaint prompted the American Humanist Association in Washington, D.C., to intervene, contending the placement of the symbol in the city right-of-way violated the separation of church and state... Representatives of the association said they were prepared to challenge the city again if it didn’t ensure the Devaneys’ cross came down. The organization, which represents atheists and other nonreligious individuals, released a statement Thursday expressing gratitude the cross was being removed. ~Source

In my opinion, it is beyond ridiculous to claim that these sorrowful memorials constitute a governmental establishment of religion. And so once again we are left to wonder what these groups are trying to accomplish.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/11/2014 7:11:11 AM >

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/11/2014 7:14:26 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

All across America you will see roadside memorials placed by family and friends where a loved one died. Given that the majority of the U.S. population is Christian, they are usually crosses - but not always, of course. One of them was along a roadside in Lake Elsinore, CA.

But that one is gone now, because the dead boy's mother was threatened with a lawsuit by The American Humanist Association.

In May 2012, 19-year-old Anthony Vincent Devaney was struck and killed crossing Lake Street. In December of that year, the family erected the memorial. A complaint prompted the American Humanist Association in Washington, D.C., to intervene, contending the placement of the symbol in the city right-of-way violated the separation of church and state... Representatives of the association said they were prepared to challenge the city again if it didn’t ensure the Devaneys’ cross came down. The organization, which represents atheists and other nonreligious individuals, released a statement Thursday expressing gratitude the cross was being removed. ~Source

In my opinion, it is beyond ridiculous to claim that these sorrowful memorials constitute a governmental establishment of religion. And while we are once again left to wonder what goal these groups are trying to achieve, it's seems at least clear that upholding the Constitution isn't one of them.

K.

When these memorials are maintained by the city, as this one was, it does become an endorsement of religion when the sole symbol is a large cross on the city right of way. This city had also just tried to erect a large cross as a "war memorial."

I agree the cross from 9/11 should go in the museum strictly as a relic of the structure. The religious connotations should not be involved and all the blessings and that crap should not be included in a museum I pay for.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 3/11/2014 8:51:27 AM >

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/11/2014 11:06:11 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Fanaticism, no matter the cause, can lead to an evil disregard for others.
Fanatical atheists are just as obnoxious as the bible thumpers that harass you on Saturday mornings.

Word.

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/11/2014 11:07:12 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
it is beyond ridiculous to claim that these sorrowful memorials constitute a governmental establishment of religion.

Exactly.

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RE: With friends like these.... - 3/11/2014 11:34:49 AM

chatterbox24

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I would like to share a story with you. When I was a little girl my grandparents house burnt, the heat was so intense, it broke all the plates. A Shell was left outside but the inside was chard badly. NO one was at home at the time of the fire, so thankfully no one was hurt. In one room, the living room, all photographs, pictures, anything on the wall was destroyed except one item, and the fire burnt all around it, in a jagged circle around it although everything else had fell off the wall, this item and the small area of wall were not destroyed.

Was it a coincidence? Could be. IT was astounding though.

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