Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as racism"


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as racism" Page: <<   < prev  26 27 28 [29] 30   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/23/2014 8:04:21 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Myself I translate the Bible to be writing of men inspired by God... but with the prejudices of men of that time. I refuse to believe my God would create homosexuals then condemn them and call them sinners.

Butch

Nicely said, Butch, that is my opinion of the bible as well. If you really want to reinforce your views, pick up a copy of "misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman, it is quite revealing. Christian fundamentalists are a bunch of numb nuts, because they pretend that somehow the NT came into being with God's hand the way they read it, and as Sportin Life said in "Porgy and Bess", it ain't necessarily so. The NT were originally oral stories that writers set down (and also were not the namesakes the texts are named after, Mark did not write Mark, Luke did not write Luke and the disciple John certainly did not write John, it was written by a greek in the late 1st century when John would be long gone, given the ages people lived to in the time. Not to mention there were no official scribes, the texts passed from person to person and were copied, by hand, from parchment to parchment, often by illiterate slaves. They were edited, those copying it had transcription errors, some people wrote commentary (the story of the adulterous woman is one of those), and this went on for centuries. The Canon was not decided until the 4th century and Jerome compiled the first official bible, the Latin Vulgate, around the turn of the 4th, and he complained in writing about how hard it was to figure out what the real texts were. The only texts we have today date back only to the 4th century, and among the 1500 or so greek texts existent today, written from the 4th to the 15th century or so, there are 350,000 discrepencies between them. And, of course, the Bishops who laid down the canon also edited them to fit their viewpoint; the first section of John, that implies the trinity, was added in the late 3d/early 4th century to help bolster the idea of the trinity that was cemented into Christian teaching at Nicae around 325.

The bible is inspired, but it is a work of man, and as such it is why it needs discernment. The church recognized that, it is why they don't just rely on scripture, and for example the Anglican tradition is scripture, reason and church teaching, and that reason is supposed to be used in discerning the meaning of the bible. Fundamentalists were a Johnny come lately (mid 19th century), and they are basically denying reality trying to read the bible literally. Joseph Campbell hit the nail on the head, when he said fundamentalist is seeing steak on the menu and eating the menu.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 561
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/23/2014 8:24:32 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
Getting away from same sex marriage and homosexuality (which despite what the idiots in the Vatican and Bishops thought for the past 30 years, is not a major point of being Catholic, as Francis is now saying) and the original point, it isn't that religion will be equated with racism, it is that religion that proclaims the ultimate truth and refuses to believe others have truth, or throws out reason, or otherwise claims only they know the truth and therefore should be considered the true voice of God that will be, and for the same reason.

Racism isn't mere prejudice, though it is prejudicial, racism is a series of constructs that argue that one racial group is superior to others, and that as a result the 'superior' group has the right to maintain a position of power over other groups, and they need to necessarily kow tow to the superiority of the other group. Jim Crow is a perfect example of it at work, and those who practiced it were willing to go to extremes, including killing people, to terrorize them into falling in line.

Now let's look at true believer religion. The Catholic church through the dark ages was much that way, which led to things like burning Bruno at the stake for proclaiming the universe was made up of stars and we were but a planet, Galileo being arrested for saying the church's idea of the universe revolving around the earth as the sun does, the various wars between Christian sects in the various religious wars, the inquisition, the crusades, all of them were the equivalent of racism, they said we are the truth, the power and the way, obey us or die. The various protestant spin offs weren't much better, the Anglican church prosecuted anyone not believing as they did, including in the colonies where evangelicals like Methodists and Presbytyrians were harshly dealt with, not to mention the Puritan.

Later on you have the fundamentalists, who claim truth through the literal word of the bible, and to this day spend a lot more of their time demonizing those who don't believe as they do and trying to force society to adopt their beliefs. They believe their religious faith is the true on, and they damn anyone who doesn't believe it. More importantly as with Jim Crow, they keep trying to use the law to enforce their beliefs, whether it is school prayer, whether it is trying to get evolution removed from the schools and or teaching 6 day creationism as science, or censoring school books that dare criticize what the US has done, since the fundies believe the US was created by God and nothing it ever did therefore could be wrong; or the idiots, not surprisingly in Texas, where the fundies through the GOP tried to get critical thinking focused education banned, because it challenged "long held beliefs".....it is racism, except instead of race, it is religious belief used as the focus. The leaders of the US catholic church are like that, where they have turned Catholicism into being anti gay and anti abortion, and pound away at that and trying to use their perceived power (which in reality is bupkus) to try and kowtow others into following their wishes......

I don't think religious belief is dying, I think that what is happening is that the true believer style of religion is dying, and every evidence is there it is. Young evangelicals strongly dislike the negative tone of their elders and think the whole religious right/alliance with the GOP is dead wrong, that it corrupted their faith, and they also don't need to force their faith on others, they generally aren't as excited about prayer in schools or having the 10 commandments on courtroom and school walls, or beating people up over being different.

Catholics for the most part pick and choose what they wish to believe, there is a huge gap between most Catholics and the morons pete the polish prince and Der Pope put in power, 60% of Cathlics support same sex marriage, 80% regularly use birth control and a majority of Catholics are pro choice on abortion, despite being personally against it. Mainstream protestant churches have become more liberal, where the ones with the true believer mentality leave or splinter off. More importantly, of people who say they believe in God, a large percentage of them (I think it is roughly 70%) believe that their own faith tradition doesn't have all the answers and listens to what other traditions have to say. The fastest growing group of religious people is not mega church types like the Rick Warren school of things, it is those who say they don't practice a particular faith but work on it personally based on a variety of teachings. That is heartening, because that is the antidote to the harms of some types of religion, the 'religious racism' so to speak, when you find truth in all teachings, you tend to realize that no one has the corner on truth, and you stop trying to force your beliefs on others or use it as a weapon or stand on street corners yelling at people cause they are going to hell cause Jesus aint their buddy.

(in reply to njlauren)
Profile   Post #: 562
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 1:02:49 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline
BONK....WRONG......it is not bogus.
it is a translation, from the King James Version to the Amplified Version regarding the word Effeminate. The Amplified Bible is easier to read and understand and I recommend it to those who have trouble with the KJV. I own 4 bibles and cross reference.
KBsub kindly put up the KJV.
If that is the point you really want to argue keep in mind, your argument is all about actually redefining the word marriage to fit your own agenda, all the while implying we are prejudice. So is your argument bogus?
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

OH poo. Excuses Excuses Excuses. I agree, no one wants thumped over the head with a bible if they are in opposition. I frankly don't like someone cramping stuff I don't understand either and if they do that I am going to get O.D.D. If one doesn't believe in a certain faith, has God aversion for whatever reason, hates religion with a passon, doesn't like the Bible. FAIR ENOUGH. We all have our reasons.
I read a lot of bologna justifying this and that but the fact remains, there is an incline in peoples values and goodness in a certain area of the world I call home.
This thread was started and called Religion will become as unacceptable as racism, and it became a homosexual thread.
In respect that it is Sunday, I am going to express my own measure of freedom of speech and to My God. And if you notice these scriptures I am going to quote, speak of a lot more then homosexuality. This is New Testament, not Old Testament.
Argue with the words if you like, but most people whether they believe or not, don't want to live in a society full of this. Compromise can change a whole world. Enjoy your day.

1 Corinthians Chapter 6

vs 9 Do you know that the unrighteous and the wrong doers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who practice homosexuality.10 Nor cheats, nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.


Chstterbox-

Your translation of Corinthians is bogus, and it is easy to see it....That 'practice of homosexuality' is basically made up, because the word homosexuality didn't exist when the NT was written, and the Greeks had no word for it. Translations of the bible who say that do so because the NT doesn't have very many proscriptions against Homosexuality, it is primarily OT, so they create things that don't exist. It should be telling that Christ speaks against adultery many times, yet they have to translate something that scholars will tell you translates as "abherrent behavior' into homosexuality , and Christ not once says anything about gays, only Paul, who is not quoting Christ, he is quoting himself (and if we wish to follow Paul, none of us should get married, he tells people not to get married if they can help it....)



_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to njlauren)
Profile   Post #: 563
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 5:08:16 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
Your quote said that people would be forced to change their religious beliefs because they would be forced to marry same sex couples, and that isn't true.



Quote me. Where did I say that? Don't say I said that, quote me... or I ask that you retract.


"Christians I have had such discussions with most all say "no problem" with a form of civil union which allows what you wish. But they do draw a line at altering their religious institution(s) allowing inclusion at the cost of opposition to God's Game, God's rules. In a sense one might argue that such are not prejudicial, their wanting to find a way without falling into opposition."

The key word here is altering their religious institutions, which implies that they would be forced to marry same sex couples..and you posted in a discussion about whether churches should be forced to marry people, which strongly says you believe the same thing, otherwise you wouldn't post in.


No, the key phrase you used is "change their religious beliefs." Nowhere did I say anything remotely like that. Yours is a bait and switch.

It is entirely possible to change an institutions doctrine by law without altering members beliefs. For instance, a wedding photographer who objects to gay marriage being forced, by law, to offer said service only alters the photographer's practice, not their belief. The photographer's belief, though still intact, is now sorely tested by the change in practice (doctrine) which, by doing such, is in opposition to God.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/24/2014 5:16:23 AM >


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to njlauren)
Profile   Post #: 564
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 5:23:11 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
Many heterosexuals get physically sick by the thought of homosexual sex. Should that be changed also? Is that bad?

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 565
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 5:26:28 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
There is a rumor going that catholic schoolgirls are among the most dirty sexlovers. Why is that? Is that good?

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 566
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 5:31:22 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Many heterosexuals get physically sick by the thought of homosexual sex. Should that be changed also? Is that bad?


Many if not most of us feel repulsed at the thought of our own parents having sex. One's parents having sex - now that's one thing I'm *totally* behind banning. ;-)

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 567
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 5:31:28 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
Should we accept and respect things that are against our moral?
For that matter how the hell can I respect and accept things, that are against the core of my moral?
If I would say I respect your disgusting lifestyle, am I not a liar?

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 568
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 5:32:41 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Many heterosexuals get physically sick by the thought of homosexual sex. Should that be changed also? Is that bad?


Many if not most of us feel repulsed at the thought of our own parents having sex. One's parents having sex - now that's one thing I'm *totally* behind banning. ;-)


Anyone ever walked in on their parents doing it?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 569
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 5:34:04 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Many heterosexuals get physically sick by the thought of homosexual sex. Should that be changed also? Is that bad?


Many if not most of us feel repulsed at the thought of our own parents having sex. One's parents having sex - now that's one thing I'm *totally* behind banning. ;-)

Funny I never had a problem with that thought, of my parents having sex. Maybe there is something wrong with me? Or am I right? I always choose to believe the latter.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 570
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 5:35:43 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Many heterosexuals get physically sick by the thought of homosexual sex. Should that be changed also? Is that bad?


Many if not most of us feel repulsed at the thought of our own parents having sex. One's parents having sex - now that's one thing I'm *totally* behind banning. ;-)


Anyone ever walked in on their parents doing it?

No we are taught to knock before entering, it's what you call a decent upbringing I believe.
My brother did walk in on me doing it the sneaky fucker. She had big titties.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/24/2014 5:38:29 AM >

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 571
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 8:17:26 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Many if not most of us feel repulsed at the thought of our own parents having sex. One's parents having sex - now that's one thing I'm *totally* behind banning. ;-)


Yeah gay people having sex is gross (unless they're hot chicks), fat people having sex is gross, old people, ugly people and the list goes on and on.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 572
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 8:27:03 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
Getting away from same sex marriage and homosexuality (which despite what the idiots in the Vatican and Bishops thought for the past 30 years, is not a major point of being Catholic, as Francis is now saying)

That depends on how you define "major". What he is saying is that the doctrine is clear (eg: homosexuality is a sin), he believes that doctrine, and he sees no complicated issue which requires further discussion. He's also saying that some american bishops seems to have gotten stuck on 3 points (this being one of them) and they needed to think about the rest of the catechism too. As a sidebar, he seems to like the "doing good" part of religion and he's comfortable meeting with atheists (and presumably gays/lesbians) on the common ground of "doing good".

He is, however, still clear on the whole "they'll all burn in hell" gig. He just feels that's above his pay grade.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to njlauren)
Profile   Post #: 573
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 9:21:42 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Many if not most of us feel repulsed at the thought of our own parents having sex. One's parents having sex - now that's one thing I'm *totally* behind banning. ;-)


Yeah gay people having sex is gross (unless they're hot chicks), fat people having sex is gross, old people, ugly people and the list goes on and on.

edit
I agree.
In general two hot girls having sex are a wet dream for heterosexual men, right?
Fat people having sex is gross anyway unless you're a pervert.
And old people stink! Ever smelled the pussy of a 70year old woman? It reeks of buttermilk.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/24/2014 9:25:39 AM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 574
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 6:05:00 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

Sunny Quote of the Day
goes to
crazyml's
very wily retired Jesuit Priest friend

for
What if instead of 'God'"
we said "Good"


http://www.collarchat.com/m_4654446/mpage_27/key_/tm.htm#4667178

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 575
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 6:39:04 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline
if we're misspelling shit then

what if instead of god we said odd?

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 576
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 8:31:28 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

BONK....WRONG......it is not bogus.
it is a translation, from the King James Version to the Amplified Version regarding the word Effeminate. The Amplified Bible is easier to read and understand and I recommend it to those who have trouble with the KJV. I own 4 bibles and cross reference.
KBsub kindly put up the KJV.
If that is the point you really want to argue keep in mind, your argument is all about actually redefining the word marriage to fit your own agenda, all the while implying we are prejudice. So is your argument bogus?
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

OH poo. Excuses Excuses Excuses. I agree, no one wants thumped over the head with a bible if they are in opposition. I frankly don't like someone cramping stuff I don't understand either and if they do that I am going to get O.D.D. If one doesn't believe in a certain faith, has God aversion for whatever reason, hates religion with a passon, doesn't like the Bible. FAIR ENOUGH. We all have our reasons.
I read a lot of bologna justifying this and that but the fact remains, there is an incline in peoples values and goodness in a certain area of the world I call home.
This thread was started and called Religion will become as unacceptable as racism, and it became a homosexual thread.
In respect that it is Sunday, I am going to express my own measure of freedom of speech and to My God. And if you notice these scriptures I am going to quote, speak of a lot more then homosexuality. This is New Testament, not Old Testament.
Argue with the words if you like, but most people whether they believe or not, don't want to live in a society full of this. Compromise can change a whole world. Enjoy your day.

1 Corinthians Chapter 6

vs 9 Do you know that the unrighteous and the wrong doers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who practice homosexuality.10 Nor cheats, nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.


Chstterbox-

Your translation of Corinthians is bogus, and it is easy to see it....That 'practice of homosexuality' is basically made up, because the word homosexuality didn't exist when the NT was written, and the Greeks had no word for it. Translations of the bible who say that do so because the NT doesn't have very many proscriptions against Homosexuality, it is primarily OT, so they create things that don't exist. It should be telling that Christ speaks against adultery many times, yet they have to translate something that scholars will tell you translates as "abherrent behavior' into homosexuality , and Christ not once says anything about gays, only Paul, who is not quoting Christ, he is quoting himself (and if we wish to follow Paul, none of us should get married, he tells people not to get married if they can help it....)




No, I am saying that ancient greek had no word for homosexuality and to claim it said 'those who practice homosexuality' is an outright deliberate mistranslation to fit an agenda. The quote in questions talks about the equivalent of sexual deviance but doesn't say what, and it could be anything from masturbation to having sex other than for procreation to fornication.

The KJV as a bible is the most poetic of the bibles, but also is problematic, in that its greek texts came from Erasmus, who in turn took it from an 11th century swiss copy of the greek texts, supplemented with stuff he took from the latin vulgate Bible. The reason your quote is bogus is that scholars would tell you that what you are claiming is based on a mistranslation of a not very reliable text and is also like any translation, only as good as those who translated it.

As far as changing the definition of marriage, marriage in the days of the bible was way different than today, traditional Jewish marriages were a one way affair dominated by the man, and most would be arranged marriages. Marriage for love only became common in the 19th century, and with the rise of the right of women to own property and have a life outside the marital home, it changed marriage. Then, too, with the advent of legalized divorce, marriage changes once again. Not to mention that with people living into their 80's today, as versus their 30's in biblical times, the idea of 'marriage for life" has become a lot more problematic and difficult....you can pretend marriage has always been the same, but it isn't, it has changed a lot, from a form of bondage for the women, as 'owned property' of her husband, to an equal relationship...so change is inherent to marriage, marriage is not the same as it was 2000 years ago or even 150 years ago.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 577
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 8:39:50 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
Your quote said that people would be forced to change their religious beliefs because they would be forced to marry same sex couples, and that isn't true.



Quote me. Where did I say that? Don't say I said that, quote me... or I ask that you retract.


"Christians I have had such discussions with most all say "no problem" with a form of civil union which allows what you wish. But they do draw a line at altering their religious institution(s) allowing inclusion at the cost of opposition to God's Game, God's rules. In a sense one might argue that such are not prejudicial, their wanting to find a way without falling into opposition."

The key word here is altering their religious institutions, which implies that they would be forced to marry same sex couples..and you posted in a discussion about whether churches should be forced to marry people, which strongly says you believe the same thing, otherwise you wouldn't post in.


No, the key phrase you used is "change their religious beliefs." Nowhere did I say anything remotely like that. Yours is a bait and switch.

It is entirely possible to change an institutions doctrine by law without altering members beliefs. For instance, a wedding photographer who objects to gay marriage being forced, by law, to offer said service only alters the photographer's practice, not their belief. The photographer's belief, though still intact, is now sorely tested by the change in practice (doctrine) which, by doing such, is in opposition to God.

Wait a minute, where the hell did a photographer taking pictures come from?Stop the typical tactic of those in arguments who start using shotgun arguments to try and get out of a corner. You were talking about religious institutions, not individual beliefs, and I specifically pointed out that religious institutions don't have to marry anyone nor do they have to change their teachings, and the law cannot force a church to change its teachings....

A photographer is not a religious institution and the subject of photographers is a very, very different argument, that comes down to private businesses that operate in the public domain being able to use their religious belief to discriminate, and it is dicey. Rednecks down south argued that they had the right to free association and therefore banning blacks from restaurants was legal under that right, they believed blacks didn't deserve to be served. With someone objecting to same sex couples, the question is whether religious belief in terms of a public business trumps requirements of being licensed as a business......the law says that while allowances should be made for religious belief, it also says that religious belief alone is not all poweful. An EMT or a doctor cannot refuse to help someone who is gay based on religious belief, a pharmacist cannot refuse to dispense birth control because of religious belief if no alternatives are available; a town clerk cannot refuse to marry a same sex couple if they are the only one who can do marriages in that office. Religious is not as many of the true believer types in the first amendment to indicate it is above all, in the public sphere there are a lot fo beliefs, and the law is there to arbitrate them. Otherwise, you end up with the middle east, with people killing each other over whose God is the real one.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 578
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 8:47:20 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
Getting away from same sex marriage and homosexuality (which despite what the idiots in the Vatican and Bishops thought for the past 30 years, is not a major point of being Catholic, as Francis is now saying)

That depends on how you define "major". What he is saying is that the doctrine is clear (eg: homosexuality is a sin), he believes that doctrine, and he sees no complicated issue which requires further discussion. He's also saying that some american bishops seems to have gotten stuck on 3 points (this being one of them) and they needed to think about the rest of the catechism too. As a sidebar, he seems to like the "doing good" part of religion and he's comfortable meeting with atheists (and presumably gays/lesbians) on the common ground of "doing good".

He is, however, still clear on the whole "they'll all burn in hell" gig. He just feels that's above his pay grade.

I didn't mean to imply that he wants to change doctrine, I was saying what you have, that the US Bishops seem to have made abortion, gays and contraception the only teachings that matter. The US Bishops persecuted a group of nuns because they spent all their time helping the poor and powerless and weren't ranting about abortion and same sex marriage; the US Bishops have run around threatening politicans who are Catholic that they may be denied communion if they support pro choice or pro same sex marriage laws, yet the same stupid, stupid men have supported politicians who are anti abortion, anti same sex marriage but who are slashing programs for the poor and powerless to give tax breaks to the well off, and when is the last time you saw a Bishop threaten a Catholic politicians like Paul Ryan for wanting to gut the social safety net? Catholicism has a long tradition of helping the poor, of helping even sinners, of trying to make people's lives better, and they certainly were not about fire and brimstone nastiness that the Bishops have done..and of course, I think the Pope is also kind of saying, how can you judge gays when you (meaning the Bishops) have sinned so horribly with kids being sexually molested and them looking the other way?

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 579
RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/24/2014 9:26:22 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Many heterosexuals get physically sick by the thought of homosexual sex. Should that be changed also? Is that bad?

Many people, both straight and gay, get physically sick at the thought of reading gibberish from trolls.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 580
Page:   <<   < prev  26 27 28 [29] 30   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as racism" Page: <<   < prev  26 27 28 [29] 30   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.168