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TheWillToThrive -> RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as racism" (3/10/2014 8:03:03 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
We've had threads before about how people "need" religion. I am one of those people who believes that a certain percentage of people (pick a number) will always need religion. And therefore, regardless of whether I, personally, need it in my life to be a good person, regardless of whether I feel religion causes harm in the world in other ways, religion is always going to be with us. The best we can do is to try and have a dialogue about how to minimize the ill effects on society as a whole (the imposition of religious rules on the secular, wars waged in the name of religion, etc.) But even then, in my experience in life, most of the truly religious are not really interested in playing well with others, because they believe they are the only ones with the right answer. That type of entitlement doesn't lend itself to cooperative society building. In other words, we are due for more of the same…... I wish I could be less pessimistic, but I see no evidence pointing the other direction. [sm=2cents.gif]
It would be nice if more people understood that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Yes. I suspect that you are correct and that there will always be those who need religion, and that many of the religiously minded citizens of our various countries will always put their religious beliefs ahead of their social obligations.
I don't share your pessimism however. In most Western countries, the trend has been that more highly educated the general populace is, the less religiously inclined it is. Ireland is a good example of this trend. (The US appears to be somewhat of an exception to this trend). So, as time goes by the ability of the religious to impose their beliefs on the rest of us is diminished. These attempts will never disappear totally - indeed there are areas of social policy where religions contribute positively and their contribution should therefore be welcomed. But on the whole, I don't see any reason to suppose that this trend will be stopped or reversed.
In line with this trend, it may be that increasingly religious belief and observance will be seen more as part of the personal private sphere rather than the public social sphere. So I doubt that religion will ever become totally unacceptable as per the OP. But I do see it as becoming less and less relevant and influential as time goes by.
Eloquently stated, I agree.
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ORIGINAL: FelineRanger
The problem with religion is not the principles. The problem is that the generations who followed Moses, Jesus Christ, and Mohammed have turned a few simple ideas and philosophies into enormous monoliths with infallibility as part of the core belief system. The discrimination against gays, transgenders, and even the "wrong" skin color that is rife within the various religion sects comes from the distorted idea that worshiping a particular godhead somehow makes the individual superior to someone who worships a different godhead. Short and to the point, it's "my god is better than your god so I have the right to kill you." I would love to see the absurdity of religion abandoned in favor or a more rational outlook, but I don't think the human race will last long enough to become that enlightened.
Well said.
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ORIGINAL: Kirata
Hi Tweak,
Fucktoy and you both seem to believe that some people "need" religion and some people don't. But not everyone is religious because they "need" religion. They are religious because religion offers them a way of understanding their experiences.
Science can tell us whether or not our beliefs about physical reality are consonant with its laws. But there are things that science can't explain, experiences for which it can offer no accounting, some of which it even denies are possible.
Your own OOBEs, for example. Science will tell you they are hallucinations, just the brain playing tricks on you, and that you can't really be actually out of your body. Do you only believe they are real because you "need" to believe in them?
In my opinion, all of the problems caused by religion stem from dogmatic and literalistic belief in some book, not in a universal divine reality in which or in whom we are all united. And frankly, I question the validity of even calling the former religion.
K.
Well said.
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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
"Religion will become as unacceptable as racism"
'No, religion is ruining the world, you need to stop!'
I used to think like this.
Then I slowly realized it was just an opinionated man with a narrow focus complaining about opinionated people with a narrow focus.
The world got rosier the day I finally figured that out.
Well said. So much win in that statement.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Okay. A serious reply.
While actions that stem from racism are largely unacceptable, racism itself isn't/shouldn't be.
I'm speaking of the thought process; the root of it.
Racism and having pride in your culture and lineage are two very different things. You can have pride without the hate. I don't see why someone would waste the energy to hate someone that is different than themselves.
quote:
ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
If everyone operated this way society would be much better off. Unfortunately, today, some religious people do not operate with your live and let live attitude. Although we are supposed to live in a society with separation of religion from the state, many people feel that their religious beliefs can, in fact, be imposed on others by using narrow religious beliefs to dictate the boundaries of law. I really wish more people thought like you, especially when it comes to creating laws for the country.
I couldn't agree more, my morals should not be judged by another's religion.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlf1961
1) Nobody "needs" religion, morality and ethics are pretty much determined by society, everybody pretty much knows what is good and what is not good.
This is completely false. Morality and ethics is an individual concept. Good is not a universal term, it is a subjective one.
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I do believe that religion will become almost non existent in the future. Probably distant future. We are a species built on curiosity and as such we will always find a way to believe in something without proof or reason. Religion is a tidy way to sum up everything you can't understand and put a single name on it. This is something that will always appeal to some people. Will religion die? I doubt it. But I do believe it will become the minority.
My issue with religion is when my actions are judged by someone else's moral code. I feel we are held back by religion and that while it is the majority we are all forced to submit to the ethical code set forth by those religions. I should be able to live my life as I choose to just as everyone else should. A woman should have the right to abort a pregnancy. We should be doing stem cell research at full speed ahead. Believe what you want just give me the right to do the same and not be judged for being different.
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