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RE: Money. - 7/8/2006 11:01:25 PM

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Some of us are not for sale... in fact the higher quality people are not for sale... and if you think that you can come at me with saying that a wealthy dom wouldn't have me... let me assure you, I have had offers from wealthy men.. I tend to find most vulgar and showy... I would prefer a pauper, but then again I am a self sufficient romantic that can make my own way in the world.

If I wasn't taken I would definitely be interested in a dominant like Crappy, and most other subs posting here would echo those sentiments.

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Money. - 7/8/2006 11:56:42 PM

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He doesnt know what he's talking about yet again and he has proven yet again he doesnt know when to shut his mouth he seems to want to insult everyone here....

and julia I agree I think crappy is one of the more intelagent Doms here and any sub would be lucky to have him as their Master :)

-da enigma-

_____________________________

Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 12:11:07 AM

sleazybutterfly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

If I wasn't taken I would definitely be interested in a dominant like Crappy, and most other subs posting here would echo those sentiments.

Consider yourself "echoed".... Andrea

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~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 12:14:22 AM

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::giggles and starts a crappy fan club::

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Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 1:27:20 AM

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From: Texas
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Interesting.

So, to break this down to brass tacks and taking your top estimates, you are stating it can cost upwards of $120,000 to become a Master. Well, how long can that education be utilized? By a most conservative estimate, I'll just pull out an arbitrary number of 40 years. Arbitrary numbers don't seem to bother you, so I do hope you don't mind if I use them as well.

So, $120,000 divided by 40 years comes out to $3,000 per year, $250.00 per month, $8.33 per day, $.35 per minute, $.0058 per second to become a Master and in return you have the ability to get yourself a slave.

So, all that's left to do is determine the worth of owning a slave to see if the education pays for itself.

Worth of slave = priceless

Ah, yes. More than worth it. Go figure.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 1:47:10 AM

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:: runs and hugs bitatrouble::

that was awsome

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Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 1:54:33 AM

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quote:

Plus, for all practical purposes, one invalid person you will take care of the rest of your life.

Looking at things this way may help alot of people who are just confused clarify their goals, and maybe even avoid the very frustrated threads we've seen lately.

So I take this to mean your skills are so poor you stand a good chance of crippling a sub bad enough to make them an invalid? Well I guess my goals are not to do that.

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 2:09:44 AM

doll

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From: Middle Georgia
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It doesn't matter to me if a Dom has money...I mean as long as he can pay his bills and isn't living in the ghetto with his mom or some family member...I don't really care. The only reason I say that is I feel he must be able to take care of himself before he can attempt to take care of a sub (and not monetarily).

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(in reply to WayWardSoul)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 2:13:42 AM

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In all fairness to zenofeller, I'd like to say that it's been my observation that stating things in a provocative manner is just the way he communicates; I think he really means no harm - it's just his style, maybe? I think he just wants to know how important money is in building relations with hetero girls? Less than many men probably think, is my guess (and my guess is totally biased, so not a great barometer of general public opinion, maybe - who knows)?

I also think that many men (least the ones I know, then again, I was born in 1960) were raised to be "the Providers" and I must say if they were raised that way, and indeed consider it a point of pride to be able to do that, they might want some reassurance every now and then that thier money is not the only thing a girl could be loking for when they look at them. Well - it's Not.

If some girls do take a long hard look at whether someone has much, it might be for various reasons, and not all of them because they are "gold-diggers". My grandmother was raised dirt poor and married a company Vice President - who can blame her? She spent years wondering how she would buy groceries for herself and her eleven siblings (and she and her husband, my grandfather, did love eachother). Yes, it is nice to know the landlord isn't going to kick you out of your dwelling and that you can buy groceries and pay the light bill; maybe even take a pleasure trip to somewhere once in awhile, I suppose.

I think it is probably impossible to classify why it would be important to girls generally, as it is why it might not be. But, like julia, I like to think I cannot be "bought". There are just too many other qualities that matter to me - not the least of which is that elusive thing called "chemistry", an honest feeling they care about my welfare, creativity, kindness, a sense of humor, and other things...

I think it is actually kind of an insult to somone to think that they could be "bought"- but of course nobody wants to starve - but I guess in general, society hasn't done much to discourage that notion for many men. And maybe that notion plays a vital role in some cases - I guess if I had unmentionables (which I do not, nor do I plan to have any of my own), it would indeed matter more to me because it would make a difference in their quality of life. I can always get a job - unmentionables cannot get a job until they are older.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/9/2006 2:24:33 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to WayWardSoul)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 2:49:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I also think that many men (least the ones I know, then again, I was born in 1960) were raised to be "the Providers" and I must say if they were raised that way, and indeed consider it a point of pride to be able to do that, they might want some reassurance every now and then that thier money is not the only thing a girl could be loking for when they look at them. Well - it's Not.

That's a very good point Susan. There are a lot of guys who are good providers, and while yes, they want a little credit for that achievement, they also want to be valued for more than just their bank balance. Its nice to know there are some ladies out there who do care about more than just money.

But conversely, as difficult as it can be to find a compatible partner, I think it is also very much a temptation for those with the means, to sometimes want to just "buy" a partner out of frustration. And despite bombastic remarks, that doesn't mean they don't have a personality or social skills, etc. We live in an age when even super models can't get dates. Dating has never been so complicated or difficult as it seems to be today, and the rising number of match making services is testament to that unfortunate truth.

What I find interesting in all these discussions of money is that none of them talk about the costs of healthcare for dominants, submissives or families. Or which insurance companies are more "kink" friendly (if there are any). Or how exactly to go about building good credit if you don't have it. If, as another recent thread suggests, most of you are broke... how to go about changing that. We either don't discuss the importance of financial responsibility or we down play it. I've seen submissives claim they'd still respect their dominant if they ended up living in a cardboard box. Yet I can't help but wonder if that would remain true if put to the test, considering financial stress is the leading cause of divorce in the US. Money does matter, doesn't mean you have to have gobs of it, but it is good to have the bills paid, be able to buy groceries, etc.

As with so many other recent threads, it seems the focus is always on the dramatic, while the practical questions seem to go ignored.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 2:59:00 AM

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Great comments Padriag. It matters to me if someone else is financially responsible.
If someone started to: Drink away much household money, gambled away much household money, spend it like a drunken sailor, or just didn't pay bills on time, it would really, really upset me. It might sound strange - but I have no desire to be in control of the finances. I absolutely detest handling money or making financial decisions; my husband did all of that (he didn't mind). I can do it, I just hate it though, really. Which might be weird for a Business major in college to say, but I just don't like doing it. I am very much happy to let someone else do that. Which is why I'd need to trust them - a lot.

I don't want to live in a cardboard box, either. I truly don't care if I ever see the inside of Beverly Hills as a resident - I am not aspiring to that. If I fell in love with a millionaire, I certainly wouldn't reject their money, either. I would not leave someone if they fell on "hard times", I'd like to think. But I'd hope it wasn't caused by just tossing money out the window or being really stupid with it (then I might be tempted to, I guess).

In my twenties, fresh out of college, I moved to live in Chicago where I had a great job and no dependents and every credit card company on the planet mailed me their card, it seemed. I took them all, and spent the next 5 years getting out of debt - it seemed to be like trying to dig through a mountain with a teaspoon - but I did it.

The only thing I ended up having to show for it was a terrific wardrobe (Chicago was shopping heaven) and a nice apartment full of furniture (which I did use for quite a while afterward). Other than that - nothing. It was stupid (but not that uncommon, probably).

I worked hard to get a stellar credit rating (and my husband helped, but I did, too) and today have only one American Express card, a Sears card and a gas company card (for car fuel). Everything else I pay by check or cash - and that has been the way I've done it since my late twenties. Even when I had jobs that paid moderate salaries, I've always tried to save 10% at least - and have to say that not owing anybody else money can bring a whole new and wonderful perspective on life.

Managing money can be a tough nut for some to crack; and credit card companies don't care about you - they want your money - well, it's not theirs, it's yours. I know credit cards come in handy (I still have three), but I learned the hard way that they can be dangerous and I am never going "back there".

I am not against people using credit; if they need to do it, or it's more convenient, I understand that. For me, at one time, it was so easy to just say: "Charge it". Today I really think over whether I need something for about 24 hours before I buy it. I also don't buy much (I have way more than enough "stuff"). Sometimes, when people are just starting out, or for emergencies, or even once in a while for some little luxury, I think using credit is fine. But I know what I've done has worked (for me) for a long time.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/9/2006 3:28:49 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 3:02:32 AM

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Joined: 8/1/2004
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I wouldnt respect a Dom if we had to live in a cardboard box to be truthfull, money isnt the most importent thing to me but it is a testament to a Doms responsability and ability to care for a sub!! So it does factor in on some level. I need to feel safe and secure in order to give myself.

-da enigma-

_____________________________

Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 3:40:35 AM

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Joined: 12/2/2004
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(fast reply)

I can understand you trying to say that "zeno" just likes stating things in a provocative manner, I can even almost believe it, but everyone of us has, at some time or another, preached the same thing... communicate, communicate, communicate... right? Well, if he put as much effort into open and honest communication as he does stirring in shit there would be a lot less "shoot from the hip" responses and more intelligent debate. I've yet to read one thing from him that tells me he has a clue what he is talking about and the only skill he may possibly possess is manipulation of the English language.

To answer the questions put to us...

quote:

How much does it cost to be a sucessful Dom ? And how much does it cost to be a sucessfull Master ?

Not a penny... all it takes is dedication, the desire to learn and grow, the ability to be honest with yourself and your sub/slave, the willingness to talk openly and honestly and a good imagination comes in handy as well. You don't "need" toys, the mind is the most powerful you own anyway. And you don't need a big house and lots of money for someone to call you Master either.

And zenofeller? I'm thinking that perhaps it would do you some good to look past some of the sarcasm and glean the advice that is given to you here, most have been extremely patient... even if it doesn't seem like it. The simple fact that you are still getting replies should tell you that. I rarely agree with much of anything that CrappyDom says but that doesn't mean I think his advice should just be blown off as "over compensating". And believe me, I'm not one for defending him, he is more then capable of doing that himself. Reading some of your replies brings to mind a certain Shakepearian line...

Me thinks he doth protest to loudly.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to enigmabrat)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 3:41:58 AM

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As I said before, money means little in respecting someone, but to follow the way the thread has turned, I do think financial success is not something to be ashamed of either. I came from a poor family and worked hard to finish college (BS Creighton…I mention this because I see Susan is in Omaha.) and later two grad schools. Money has seemingly come easily to me, but it is a result of my hard work. Plus, I don’t fall for the Madison Avenue hype that I have to spend on worthless crap.

What does all this have to do with how I am as a person and a Dom…very little. I know excellent Doms with little money who work very hard and are able to do things with their hands in trades that I could never master. When I’m looking for someone to be friends with whether it is a Dom, sub or vanilla, money is not a concern. When I sit down to have a drink with someone I want him/her friendly and unaffected. Someone like Crappy or Susan would be cool. My hobbies tend to run to things such as body building, sports and literature where the income of someone doesn’t count either.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 3:48:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

I have no desire or need for someone to take care of me financially. Personally I feel wierd when someone tries or wants to provide fully for me

Wow, i am not the only one.

When going through the pre-meeting negotiations with my owners my now Master informed me i would be a stay at home slave. It was what he wanted. I pretty well wrangled him into agreeing i could do some kind of work, i've always worked even though for the six years prior to coming here i did not need too. I just felt like i would not know what to do with myself if i did not.

Of course he got his way in the end but i have plenty do and he is very good about supplying anything Mistress or i want by way of projects and hobbies to be busy and happy. Like right now we are building bikes, and he bought a ton of stuff so i could grow flowers, vegetables and herbs, but he does get to eat some of those.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

And a slave can work in a home business and make just as much as she would going outside-it's all in how it's set up.

So true, we are currently working towards gearing up the garage so i can build one ups (custom motorcycles) which sell for between 15 to 30 thousand apiece.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thisishis

And if any slave i come across were nothing more than a sex pet, i still wouldn't view them as an invalid, or 'incapable of providing for themselves'. i would say that they are capable, yet have accepted their owner's choice for them to not earn an income, and to serve as their owner defines as being suited to that owner's requirements and expectations, and/or amusements.

BRAVO!!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

It matters to me if someone else is financially responsible.
If someone started to: Drink away much household money, gambled away much household money, spend it like a drunken sailor, or just didn't pay bills on time, it would really, really upset me.

Great observations here, i would not stay with anyone i saw doing those sorts of things either. To me this would be someone i could not trust with me, if they cannot be responsible and in control of themselves they certainly are not fit to own or control my body and mind.

I too look for someone responsible, but i was and am also very responsible about finances.

As to the health insurance question, my Master has brought this up on numerous occasions; he would happily add me to his health insurance if they would let him as he considers all of me to be his responsibility. Much like gay couples those of us in the lifestyle are denied the opportunity to provide for our significant others by the government.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to akisha)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 3:58:19 AM

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Wow, ExSteel, you went to Creighton? My sister went to Creighton (law school). It was not inexpensive. I went to the University-of-Nebraska-at-Omaha (lovingly called the University of No Opportunity, which turned out, in my case, not to be true).
I do agree that men (or gals) who work hard to do things like build a business, establish a career, or put themselves through school deserve respect, not admonishment, for that.

I know it was difficult at times for me to get through school (for other reasons).
Of course I also had a 'reason' to be there, and knew what I wanted a degree in (eventually, but it took awhile to decide). Fortunately, I had what turned out to be a "marketable" degree (some are fun, and are not - making future money isn't, of course, the only reason some go to college). And I've known just as many people with no college whom I consider as smart (or smarter) than some of the folks I knew in college.

Sports and body-building are great, I think - but have to confess about the only sport I participate in is swimming (and walking). I like to watch some sports, though - baseball, in particular, for some reason (I've never played it).

I also agree that "getting (and using) an education" can mean many things, and like you say, there are people here who are skilled craftspeople and writers, and artists who are just plain talented at things that maybe require no degree - they are just creative and driven.

Some people are skilled at developing businesses - they should not be ridiculed or put down for it - many of those people work their butts off 80 hours a week. My sister was paying off her law school loans (as was her husband) for a good 10 years after she graduated. I might be slightly jaded, but I'd like to think the world has just as many Donald Trump types (true enterprenuers, even if he can be a bit "over-the-top" personality-wise) as it does Ken Lays and Jeffrey Skillings (the guys who helped sink Enron).

Having been exposed (as a semi-peon in middle management, yet still exposed) to what happens in some of those companies, I can say that it's been my observation that there is a whole different set of ethics that rules at the top of some companies - it tends to get highly competitive in a personal sense; people can have huge egos (bigger than their qualifications may justify), and can start to believe too much of their own good publicity and discount completely that dumb luck and fate had anything at all to do with their success. There are people who quit and speak out about unethical kinds of goings on (Enron types of things), but it really takes guts - those are the people I admire most in the corporate world.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/9/2006 4:27:40 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 6:09:53 AM

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All im going to say is what the hell has money got to do with being a good dom or sub?
Why do you have to have money to be good at something?

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 6:35:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Of course housing is a cost you have to factor into the lifestyle just as in anything else.

Hello A/all,

In San Jose at the height of the internet bubble, a teardown located 2 hours commute from work generally cost over a million dollars. Where I live (down in Smell-A) a teardown was slightly less at around $750k in 2003.

An internet engineer in San Jose at the height of the bubble could easily earn $200k+ a year. When I was a computer engineer in 1998, starting salary was $75k. So housing prices rose to match that level of income.

Houses in Smell-A are sitting on the market for months now. Two years ago the house would have 3 offers on it for more than the asking price within 24 hours of being listed. Yet prices have not dropped significantly and real estate agents insist that prices have levelled off but will not go down appreciably.

True, prices have not dropped. What has dropped are people willing to buy houses at the price they are selling for. Of course, all those 5 year balloon payment loans made when the Simian In Chief cut interest rates are coming due in the next year or so, and people are having trouble refinancing and losing their homes. Banks have a lot more incentive to move property for a loss than individual homeowners. My plan is to wait six months and pick up a foreclosure.

I have trouble squelching my laughing at real estate agents I speak to about this. Shrub (Bush, the Lesser) and his ilk have been borrowing money from China at a furious rate, offshoring any job they possibly could to other countries, and have done little (or nothing) to build up the US economy and infrastructure.

Get rid of US jobs and people in the US cannot afford SUVs, houses, vacations, etc. Then the companies who build SUVs, houses, vacation spots, etc., have to lay off employees and idle factories. This, of course, gets rid of US jobs and creates more people who cannot afford SUVs, etc.

My point in this thread is that housing prices rise to meet what the market will bear. I could move to West Bumphuck, but if there are no jobs except slinging burgers at McDonalds for me to do, low housing prices do nothing for me. The down side of being a union longshoreman is that I have to remain near a port which has a union presence. The up side is that it is the highest paid, and my particular union has the best benefits, of any blue collar job in the world.

On the other hand, starting salary for my particular field in Information Technology has dropped from $75,000 a year to $28,000 a year since 2002. Doesnt matter to me, I generally detested my penance done as a webmaster / system administrator.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

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(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 6:40:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

What I find interesting in all these discussions of money is that none of them talk about the costs of healthcare for dominants, submissives or families. Or which insurance companies are more "kink" friendly (if there are any).

This was meant to be a joke, right?

(in reply to Padriag)

RE: Money. - 7/9/2006 6:47:04 AM

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Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

What I find interesting in all these discussions of money is that none of them talk about the costs of healthcare for dominants, submissives or families. Or which insurance companies are more "kink" friendly (if there are any).

This was meant to be a joke, right?

LOL....come to think of it, a kink friendly insurance company may be hard to find. I wonder how in the world you would ask them?

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to marieToo)

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