RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms Warning)

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/1/2014 7:21:41 PM

shadowborn61

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@BamaD
As i have said i do not have much real experience would you please explain "scripting" do you mean it as in a script to follow like in a play?

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/7/2014 7:57:53 AM

kalikshama

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"I want you to flog me 25 times with the black flogger, then 25 times with the paddle, while wearing a corset and thigh high boots" - scripting.

Not scripting - "I like bondage and flogging."

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/7/2014 9:58:37 AM

shadowborn61

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Thaks i kida thought that was it but as i have said i am fairly inexperienced.

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/7/2014 1:02:21 PM

Lucylastic

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After the act? its called a mistake, or regret.
revoking consent after its happened, is really a bad idea, for everyone ...

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/8/2014 8:34:56 AM

DesFIP

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But how many people get into really long negotiations? Yes you can use the suede flogger but not the elk. Or you can use any leather flogger but not a barbed wire one. That would require you to know that he owns a barbed wire one. And if it's public play, you won't know what's in the bottom of his case.

So where does the breakdown in communication lie there? Are you as a bottom supposed to say "I totally distrust you, so let me see every toy and I'll pick which you can use". Is the top supposed to say "I have ten floggers of different weights, which do you want?".

If you didn't specifically give permission for the barbed wire because you didn't know it was a possibility, then you haven't consented. Equally you haven't refused consent because it didn't occur to you.

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/8/2014 8:59:19 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

After the act? its called a mistake, or regret.
revoking consent after its happened, is really a bad idea, for everyone ...

Yeah, the more I think about it...

If you consented during a scene and something went south, you have nobody to blame but yourself. If you claim afterward that you're retroactively revoking consent, that just makes it look like you're shifting blame.

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/8/2014 9:21:32 AM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

But how many people get into really long negotiations? Yes you can use the suede flogger but not the elk. Or you can use any leather flogger but not a barbed wire one. That would require you to know that he owns a barbed wire one. And if it's public play, you won't know what's in the bottom of his case.

So where does the breakdown in communication lie there? Are you as a bottom supposed to say "I totally distrust you, so let me see every toy and I'll pick which you can use". Is the top supposed to say "I have ten floggers of different weights, which do you want?".

If you didn't specifically give permission for the barbed wire because you didn't know it was a possibility, then you haven't consented. Equally you haven't refused consent because it didn't occur to you.

I dont disagree with you Des, ...a few months ago, I was at a pp and was stunt butt for a flogging or two by a couple of newbies, this rather nice chap asked if he could try out his new flogger on me, I said sure...it wasnt a "real" barb wire but a leather one with about thirty falls and the knots of leather to make it "barbed"
I called red when my pet got hold of it...
If I hadnt spoken up then and he had gone too far for my pain threshold... I figure, that would have been my own fault.
Its the only time Ive called red in 17 years of play
my usual "stop play" is understood before it gets to red.

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/12/2014 10:35:26 AM

graceadieu

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I haven't seen/heard anyone do this retroactive revoking of consent thing. I think that's problematic.

I mean, it's definitely possible to consent to something, and then realize late in the play or afterwards that some previously unknown line had been crossed, that something you didn't know you didn't want had been done. And that can legitimately be traumatic.

But if you consented with a clear and sound mind, and did not revoke your consent at the time, then your partner acted with your consent and isn't at fault. Nobody is at fault; rather, it's an unfortunate accident.

I've been there myself a while back. I told a play partner that it was okay with him having sex with me while I was asleep. I'd never done that before, but it sounded like it could be fun and I trusted him to be safe about it. Well, he did that one time. It was, to my surprise, a scary and unpleasant way to wake up. But I'm a pretty heavy sleeper, slept through most of it, and wasn't awake and clear-headed enough to remember that I could safeword until it was over. That was the last time I slept with the guy, because I just felt icky about it afterwards. But..... it wasn't his fault. I'd given him permission, and he honestly didn't know I didn't like it until afterwards. It was just a thing that happened, that I learned from.

< Message edited by graceadieu -- 4/12/2014 10:36:05 AM >

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/12/2014 6:29:18 PM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
If you consented during a scene and something went south, you have nobody to blame but yourself. If you claim afterward that you're retroactively revoking consent, that just makes it look like you're shifting blame.

I am going to disagree.

If you consented beforehand and got yourself into hot water, then it's your fault for your mouth writing checks your body couldn't cash.

But during? People get into altered states during. That's the equivalent of being drunk in many cases. And drunks aren't capable of judging their reflexes. Taking advantage of someone being spaced out is just wrong.

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/13/2014 2:20:54 AM

subscreamer

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I was with a Dom a while back who would push me to try the things that were on my limits list and then he'd get outraged when I wanted them back on the list after having tried... eventually it damaged what we had beyond repair because he demanded one final list that could never be changed and it had everything that even crossed my mind as potentially worrisome on it. We both lost all trust.

My point is don't push someone too far outside of their comfort zone, they may not be able to go back.

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RE: Revoking Consent/Consent Violations (Can of Worms W... - 4/13/2014 3:08:55 AM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subscreamer

I was with a Dom a while back who would push me to try the things that were on my limits list and then he'd get outraged when I wanted them back on the list after having tried... eventually it damaged what we had beyond repair because he demanded one final list that could never be changed and it had everything that even crossed my mind as potentially worrisome on it. We both lost all trust.

My point is don't push someone too far outside of their comfort zone, they may not be able to go back.

How awful for you to have ended up with FrankenDom, playing Hard Limits roulette with you. I have no doubt he manipulated you into feeling backed into a corner by your desire to please him and win his approval. When you conceded the very first time, you set the precedent for having none of your limits honored. Please have a buffer zone of Soft Limits for yourself, and if for whatever reason you are ever faced with a compromising situation again and cannot enforce NO meaning NO WAY IN HELL, then you'll have a Softer Limit to fall back on.

I know this isn't the same thing, but if after I have informed a sub about my deal breakers, I later discover he wants to cross-dress while having sex, be cuckolded, has bisexual yearnings to suck on a strap-on, and be fisted, his ass is history. This is as much of a bait & switch as what you endured with your taboo-breaking sorry excuse of a Top. You deserve a Dom who will cherish you and treasure what you have to offer him.

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