RE: What do the atheists get right?

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 1:37:41 AM

MrBukani

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Ironically, atheism makes you vulnerable to manipulation since it denies the existence of free will. It allows for a puppeteer that instead of being God plays God. In Christianity we call this puppeteer Satan.

Most atheists actually do believe in something. They just don't call it god. Hence the denomination atheist might be illusive.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 4/29/2014 1:38:53 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 1:56:10 AM

BenevolentM

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In the thread

What good is morality anyway?
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4654211/tm.htm

I recall talking about how Atheists may inadvertently believe in God.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 2:11:05 AM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

I am not an atheist, but I agree with some of their claims. I agree that according to objective measures religion performs poorly.

Though religion may perform poorly according to objective measures, it may fact be performing better than appearances would suggest in a spiritual sense.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 2:58:22 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
I recall talking about how Atheists may inadvertently believe in God.

Complete and utter bollocks!

The definition of an Atheist is someone who does NOT believe in god.

Or to quote Merriam Webster: "one who believes there is no deity"

If you really want to spout utter crap, at least get the crap right!!

And that thread you refer to was locked because of trolling; as was another of your threads.
Just as you are doing again on this thread.

Perhaps you need another reminder??
"This thread will now be closed and will not be reopened. If you have any questions you may email me, but please do not start another thread like it"

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 5:02:31 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
For a lot of vocal atheists, I think the source of their anger comes much more from unresolved childhood issues with their parents, than it does from a more impersonal source. In that sense, I think they have it completely wrong.

It's surprisingly common for the faithful to believe in this sort comforting nonsense.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 5:17:01 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
For a lot of vocal atheists, I think the source of their anger comes much more from unresolved childhood issues with their parents, than it does from a more impersonal source. In that sense, I think they have it completely wrong.

It's surprisingly common for the faithful to believe in this sort comforting nonsense.

Not that he's exactly flavour of the month any more, but there's always Freud's view that religion is based on an infantile need for a powerful father figure. Kids can get angry that dad isn't being nice, and so forth.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 4/29/2014 5:18:12 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 5:21:08 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
For a lot of vocal atheists, I think the source of their anger comes much more from unresolved childhood issues with their parents, than it does from a more impersonal source. In that sense, I think they have it completely wrong.

It's surprisingly common for the faithful to believe in this sort comforting nonsense.

Not that he's exactly flavour of the month any more, but there's always Freud's view that religion is based on an infantile need for a powerful father figure.

Like most belief systems and ideologies, religion makes a lot more sense to me when it is seen as fulfilling an individual's emotional needs rather than as an intellectual thesis, as a dispassionate account of the way things are or some kind of Divine revelation ....

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/29/2014 5:22:40 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 8:45:52 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Not that he's exactly flavour of the month any more, but there's always Freud's view that religion is based on an infantile need for a powerful father figure. Kids can get angry that dad isn't being nice, and so forth.

The best explanation I've heard is that those who were successfully raised to blindly follow an authoritarian parent continue to need that authoritarian control in their adult lives because they never acquired the skills to function without it.

Here's a fundy article on how to rob your child of critical thinking skills for this very reason:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.shepherdpress.com/the-problem-with-explanations/
Explanations tend to focus on getting someone to agree with you. The logic for explanations runs something like this: If I can just get my children to understand the reason for my direction, then they will be more likely to follow my instruction. While this may sound like solid reasoning, it is not. Explanations are more consistent with gaining approval and winning arguments. Neither of these are appropriate goals for biblical parenting and can lead to anger in your children as Ephesians warns against.

Sadly such people aren't really equipped to understand someone holding a position for intellectual reasons and end up imposing the sort of mental processes they use on us.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 10:06:11 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.shepherdpress.com/the-problem-with-explanations/
Explanations tend to focus on getting someone to agree with you. The logic for explanations runs something like this: If I can just get my children to understand the reason for my direction, then they will be more likely to follow my instruction. While this may sound like solid reasoning, it is not. Explanations are more consistent with gaining approval and winning arguments. Neither of these are appropriate goals for biblical parenting and can lead to anger in your children as Ephesians warns against.

Far out. Substitute the word 'indoctrination' for the word 'biblical'. It fits.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 1:24:21 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

According to atheism the intrinsic character of man is immaterial. It is pointless to improve man because man has an architecture set in stone, namely his genetic inheritance. Assuming an inability or unwillingness to modify his genetics what you can improve upon is his environment. According to atheism man is a machine, albeit a machine that suffers and for some unknown reason it is important to lessen its suffering. Since man is a machine that cannot be fixed what you are left with is tailoring the environment to the man-machine.

BM, where did you pick up all this stuff about atheism? It's nutty!

I wonder if this is what our desire not to give children and opportunity to pedophiles looks like to him.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 2:14:11 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

Richard Dawkins http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/richarddaw363328.html

A universe with a God would look quite different from a universe without one. A physics, a biology where there is a God is bound to look different. So the most basic claims of religion are scientific. Religion is a scientific theory.

I would prefer having a conversation with Richard Dawkins.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 2:22:08 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

Richard Dawkins http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/richarddaw447476.html

My personal feeling is that understanding evolution led me to atheism.

I would say you were already predisposed to atheism. You found what you wanted to find.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 2:55:17 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

According to atheism the intrinsic character of man is immaterial. It is pointless to improve man because man has an architecture set in stone, namely his genetic inheritance. Assuming an inability or unwillingness to modify his genetics what you can improve upon is his environment. According to atheism man is a machine, albeit a machine that suffers and for some unknown reason it is important to lessen its suffering. Since man is a machine that cannot be fixed what you are left with is tailoring the environment to the man-machine.

Well I don't really understand this at all. Genetics are biological and deal only in properties and phenomena of organisms and are completely separate from character or religion or one's god. Man's further ability to modify his genes as you put is, is therapeutic only as in defects that cause or man has discovered to have...a predisposition to cause disease.

Atheists if we are to stick to the definition of the word, are merely anti-theists, believing in no god...nothing more, nothing less.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/29/2014 3:00:59 PM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 3:24:43 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Atheists if we are to stick to the definition of the word, are merely anti-theists, believing in no god...nothing more, nothing less.

In other words what you are saying is that atheists don't in general explore the significance of their actions.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 3:43:10 PM

MrBukani

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You first have to define the word god before you can say I dont believe in god.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 3:49:25 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Atheists if we are to stick to the definition of the word, are merely anti-theists, believing in no god...nothing more, nothing less.

In other words what you are saying is that atheists don't in general explore the significance of their actions.

More bullshit BM??

Actually quite the contrary to your statement.
Atheists do actually explore their actions because (and this is something you really fail to grasp), they believe there is no deity; ergo, they themselves are responsible and cannot blame an ethereal non-existent being and proclaim "it is god's will" and thus delude themselves into being innocent like a bible-thumping zealot does.

Talk about turning thing ass-backwards!!!
Really BM, you have surpassed yourself.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 3:50:39 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

Richard Dawkins http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/richarddaw447487.html

The enlightenment is under threat. So is reason. So is truth. So is science, especially in the schools of America.

I agree.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 3:52:52 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

Richard Dawkins http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/richarddaw447478.html

I am very comfortable with the idea that we can override biology with free will.

And so you agree it is important to keep your pants zipped?

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 3:56:57 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

Richard Dawkins http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/richarddaw447501.html

Evolution never looks to the future.

But your brain does which is a product of evolution.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 4/29/2014 4:00:57 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

You first have to define the word god before you can say I dont believe in god.

I don't think you do, Mr B. I don't believe in fairies, elves or pixies, but I've never really bothered to define any of them.

I can't help thinking that religionists assume that we non-believers exercise a lot of brain cells in our non-belief. I don't think most of us do. We just think, 'Well, this is nonsense', and move on to other stuff. There are far more important things not to believe in, frankly.

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