RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 3:38:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

A pump shotgun is supposed to be a great home defense weapon. No words needed. Just rack the slide once chambering a round and that unmistakeable sound will freeze a burglar in his tracks or make him beat feet. Sad this tactic wasnt used. It was the friggin garage for chrissake. I would rather lose some stuff than kill somone.


The NRA is winning on two fronts -- expanding the rights of gun ownership and expanding laws to protect shooters through the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws. Now we read stories of innocent people and people committing petty crimes being murdered because shooters exercise poor judgment in the use of DEADLY FORCE.

I am not a gun owner. But from what my clients have told me, guns can change a person. One client of mine said he got rid of his firearm because he did not like the way it made him feel. Another female client said that her husband (now ex-husband) became a scary, unreasonable person after secretly buying firearms and keeping them under the bed.

In this particular story, witnesses overheard the shooter saying he wanted to shoot someone. Clearly this is the actual case with some gun owners -- they actually want to shoot someone -- to kill or injure them. Now the laws have opened a door for them use deadly force aggressively. We will now be reading one story after another about people being shot to death b/c the shooter felt fearful and justified.




tj444 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 3:42:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

here in the USA, by the time young people reach the age of 23, 30% have already been convicted of a crime.

What? Really? That is indeed a startling statistic.

I'd like to see the source for that one. The only information I have readily at my fingertips is out of date, but a 1991 Bureau of Justice Statistics report finds the lifetime probability of incarceration to be 4.4% for whites, 16.0% for Hispanics, and 28.5% for blacks.

K.


There is this article- which uses stats up to 1997- I guess thats where I got that from http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/us/nearly-a-third-of-americans-are-arrested-by-23-study-says.html?_r=0

But this article uses stats much more recent up to 2008 and it looks like its even worse now- "By Age 23, More than 40% of American Males have been Arrested Regardless of Race"
http://www.allgov.com/news/controversies/by-age-23-more-than-40-percent-of-american-males-have-been-arrested-regardless-of-race-140123?news=852246

They say that having a college/university education adds $X to your lifetime earnings, I wonder what having a criminal conviction or arrest on your record costs people in lower lifetime earnings.. sounds like you are screwed for life.. http://www.thenation.com/article/177017/boxed-how-criminal-record-keeps-you-unemployed-life#




lovmuffin -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 3:47:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
..."how I will blow away the bad guy if and when I get the chance'. I get the impression that some of those who proclaim the virtues of concealed carry can't wait for the chance to use the weapons they value so highly.


Yeah right, can't hardly wait to get into a life and death situation. LMAO at that total crap. Nothing could be farther from the truth.





tj444 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 4:45:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It's a different world, Igor. It really is. People over here in Europe do silly things occasionally, like they probably do everywhere. But we older adults don't feel the need to inspire terror in them for being berks that they are because berks here so rarely get killed for being berks. That's *your* world, Igor. I can't be bothered to get into an argument about whether or not it's somehow better in the USA because everyone has this freedom to kill and I sure as *hell* have no interest in entertaining the bleating and whining from certain Americans here about how we Europeans look down on them. All I can say is that I want no part of that sort of world, ever, because I find it disgusting.

Peon.. here in the USA, by the time young people reach the age of 23, 30% have already been convicted of a crime.. They take their law & order very seriously here.. I find that a startling stat, since once young people have that criminal record due to being a dumb kid or doing drugs, it means they are shut out in many respects of society and most likely will be doomed to low income jobs the rest of their lives.. What exactly does that mean for this country's economic health in the decades ahead?



http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

Blacks - that comprise 11% of the population commit 46% of the murders, 35% of rapists. 40$ of felony assaults.

Overall blacks comprised 55% of violent felons.


what exactly is your point? what difference do these stats of yours on black people make in relation to this particular killing?


You might want to look back a few pages for the answer to that question. Tweak got her knickers in a twist and pulled the race card on page 3 ...

-SD-

I am not tweak and he replied to my post.. my post didnt reference race at all and my post was on page 2 so and then he replied to me also on page 2 which means he was the one playing the race card first before tweak's post on page 3 .. nice try tho..




tj444 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 4:56:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

In this particular story, witnesses overheard the shooter saying he wanted to shoot someone. Clearly this is the actual case with some gun owners -- they actually want to shoot someone -- to kill or injure them. Now the laws have opened a door for them use deadly force aggressively. We will now be reading one story after another about people being shot to death b/c the shooter felt fearful and justified.


I mentioned this case in an earlier post.. you are right, I think having a gun does change people.. the man in this article tho documented his actions with 2 recordings.. if not for that, he might have been able to pull a Zimmy & get away with it..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2618100/Court-releases-audio-chilling-murders-two-teen-burglars-recorded-65-year-old-killer-set-trap-basement.html




Musicmystery -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 5:12:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
..."how I will blow away the bad guy if and when I get the chance'. I get the impression that some of those who proclaim the virtues of concealed carry can't wait for the chance to use the weapons they value so highly.


Yeah right, can't hardly wait to get into a life and death situation. LMAO at that total crap. Nothing could be farther from the truth.



Your avatar probably isn't helping with that perception.




DomKen -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 5:26:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
But this article uses stats much more recent up to 2008 and it looks like its even worse now- "By Age 23, More than 40% of American Males have been Arrested Regardless of Race"
http://www.allgov.com/news/controversies/by-age-23-more-than-40-percent-of-american-males-have-been-arrested-regardless-of-race-140123?news=852246

Being arrested is pretty trivial. Being charged is when it gets serious.




tj444 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 6:10:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
But this article uses stats much more recent up to 2008 and it looks like its even worse now- "By Age 23, More than 40% of American Males have been Arrested Regardless of Race"
http://www.allgov.com/news/controversies/by-age-23-more-than-40-percent-of-american-males-have-been-arrested-regardless-of-race-140123?news=852246

Being arrested is pretty trivial. Being charged is when it gets serious.

you have personal experience with this, do you? [;)]

I would say that if someone isnt charged after being arrested then they are damn lucky.. although, according to some of the comments on the last article I posted, it makes little difference in some cases.. and I found some of the graph stats interesting..

"My daughter, now age 28, was offered a position in a local hospital, pending receipt of her FBI background check. In 2006, she was arrested for Possession of a Controlled Substance - one loose pill in her purse, because she did not have the Rx bottle with her. No charge was ever filled, but the FBI report has no disposition. Having a record expunged does not clear the FBI report."
http://www.thenation.com/article/177017/boxed-how-criminal-record-keeps-you-unemployed-life#




thishereboi -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 6:19:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

A pump shotgun is supposed to be a great home defense weapon. No words needed. Just rack the slide once chambering a round and that unmistakeable sound will freeze a burglar in his tracks or make him beat feet. Sad this tactic wasnt used. It was the friggin garage for chrissake. I would rather lose some stuff than kill somone.


The NRA is winning on two fronts -- expanding the rights of gun ownership and expanding laws to protect shooters through the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws. Now we read stories of innocent people and people committing petty crimes being murdered because shooters exercise poor judgment in the use of DEADLY FORCE.

I am not a gun owner. But from what my clients have told me, guns can change a person. One client of mine said he got rid of his firearm because he did not like the way it made him feel. Another female client said that her husband (now ex-husband) became a scary, unreasonable person after secretly buying firearms and keeping them under the bed.

In this particular story, witnesses overheard the shooter saying he wanted to shoot someone. Clearly this is the actual case with some gun owners -- they actually want to shoot someone -- to kill or injure them. Now the laws have opened a door for them use deadly force aggressively. We will now be reading one story after another about people being shot to death b/c the shooter felt fearful and justified.



Apparently the NRA isn't the only ones happy with the laws...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140306/METRO01/303060100

Police Chief James Craig caused a national stir in January when he told The Detroit News he felt the city’s crime rate would go down if more people were armed because it would make criminals think twice about breaking into their homes or attacking them.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/24907885/detroit-homeowner-shoots-kills-1-of-two-intruders

"It's a message to the criminals - stop coming in to people's homes unannounced and uninvited. Crime no longer pays in the city of Detroit," says Dep. Chief Rodney Johnson of the Detroit Police Department.





TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 6:57:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's really funny how the shocked and horrified keep needing to embellish the story to try and force those with an ounce of common sense to say they are shocked and horrified, too.




Dont know what embellishments are made here, or that anyone has shown an ounce of common sense in this vignette.


Wondering that too.



That's because your reading comprehension sucks, Muse. Try going through the hysterical posts again.




TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 7:03:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
....No, I wouldn't fire blindly, and recklessly, into the garage..

And there's the major difference!

And we still have the gundiots on here that still think that not only do they have the legal right to blindly shoot but that they need to shoot first "just in case" he happens to be armed to the teeth like Rambo and get the jump on them.

Sheeesh... What a way to live your life - in complete paranoia. So sad. And so unnecessary.





Get your terminology right, Dwarf. "Gundiots" are the douchebags who have endless opinions about guns, and know absolutely nothing about them.

Oh. Wait. You're one of them. Idiocy explained. Never mind.




Musicmystery -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 9:03:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's really funny how the shocked and horrified keep needing to embellish the story to try and force those with an ounce of common sense to say they are shocked and horrified, too.




Dont know what embellishments are made here, or that anyone has shown an ounce of common sense in this vignette.


Wondering that too.



That's because your reading comprehension sucks, Muse. Try going through the hysterical posts again.

Ah. No reason.

Thanks for the clarity.




DomKen -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 9:31:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
But this article uses stats much more recent up to 2008 and it looks like its even worse now- "By Age 23, More than 40% of American Males have been Arrested Regardless of Race"
http://www.allgov.com/news/controversies/by-age-23-more-than-40-percent-of-american-males-have-been-arrested-regardless-of-race-140123?news=852246

Being arrested is pretty trivial. Being charged is when it gets serious.

you have personal experience with this, do you? [;)]

I would say that if someone isnt charged after being arrested then they are damn lucky.. although, according to some of the comments on the last article I posted, it makes little difference in some cases.. and I found some of the graph stats interesting..

"My daughter, now age 28, was offered a position in a local hospital, pending receipt of her FBI background check. In 2006, she was arrested for Possession of a Controlled Substance - one loose pill in her purse, because she did not have the Rx bottle with her. No charge was ever filled, but the FBI report has no disposition. Having a record expunged does not clear the FBI report."
http://www.thenation.com/article/177017/boxed-how-criminal-record-keeps-you-unemployed-life#


I've been arrested twice as an adult. Both were expunged. I've never had any problems.




TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 10:25:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I am not a gun owner. But from what my clients have told me, guns can change a person. One client of mine said he got rid of his firearm because he did not like the way it made him feel. Another female client said that her husband (now ex-husband) became a scary, unreasonable person after secretly buying firearms and keeping them under the bed.





You sound like a Baptist preacher, talking about beer.

I can absolutely respect the position of the first individual, though my guess is that the ex-husband was already on his way to scary and unreasonable before he started making and concealing secret purchases. Lying to the wife about how much the gun cost is one thing, but whether there is one in the house or not is another.

I get the "want to kill somebody/something" attitude as well. It's born out of anger and frustration, and I've seen it with people armed with anything from nunchuks, to a knife, to a scrap of wood with a nail sticking out the end. It tends to be reason for getting a weapon, not a symptom of having one. It isn't something that is acted on very often. The determination in this case will come from a judge, and maybe a jury.

Personally, the only urge that comes over me when I get a gun in my hands is to take it out out in the desert with a box or two of ammo, and a case of bottled water (or a television set, depending on how big it is).




TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 10:26:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Thanks for the clarity.



Happy to help.




tj444 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 10:47:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've been arrested twice as an adult. Both were expunged. I've never had any problems.

the laws and consequences vary state to state.. you may just be lucky where you live or had one of those rare lawyers that are actually good at their job.. some states are pretty ruthless, especially when they have prisons for profits.. some of the jail terms in certain states are outrageous.. And too, if you are white and have a great lawyer that fights hard for you, you will tend to fare a lot better than poor schmucks that get railroaded into plea deals even if they are innocent..




lovmuffin -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 11:23:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
..."how I will blow away the bad guy if and when I get the chance'. I get the impression that some of those who proclaim the virtues of concealed carry can't wait for the chance to use the weapons they value so highly.


Yeah right, can't hardly wait to get into a life and death situation. LMAO at that total crap. Nothing could be farther from the truth.



Your avatar probably isn't helping with that perception.


You mean the message of love ???




lovmuffin -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/9/2014 11:36:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
George Zimmerman for example, had taken legal courses in how to respond to a police officer. So he knew how to mold the information to show he was defending himself from a kid half his body weight and size.


Out of all made up shit you guys babbled on about Zimnerman, it's the first time I've heard that one.




joether -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/10/2014 10:41:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
George Zimmerman for example, had taken legal courses in how to respond to a police officer. So he knew how to mold the information to show he was defending himself from a kid half his body weight and size.

Out of all made up shit you guys babbled on about Zimnerman, it's the first time I've heard that one.


Its fairly well known. I'm surprised you didn't hear about. Go look it up. The guy had taken legal and law enforcement courses as he wanted to be in law enforcement. Its pretty reasonable assumption that after taking those courses and doing well in them, one would have a fair knowledge on how to handle their legal view on the events of that night. What to say to those on the scene, setting up one's story to match the surrounding events in a vague sense. And say it with a straight face....





joether -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/10/2014 10:45:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I've been arrested twice as an adult. Both were expunged. I've never had any problems.

the laws and consequences vary state to state.. you may just be lucky where you live or had one of those rare lawyers that are actually good at their job.. some states are pretty ruthless, especially when they have prisons for profits.. some of the jail terms in certain states are outrageous.. And too, if you are white and have a great lawyer that fights hard for you, you will tend to fare a lot better than poor schmucks that get railroaded into plea deals even if they are innocent..


Is it just white people? or rich people?

O.J. Simpson had a lot of money. He was accused of killing someone. Didn't serve a day in jail.

Last I checked, rich people can often afford really good lawyers. Even go so far as to say.....a team of lawyers....like what OJ had!




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