undergroundsea
Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
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I think rants serve a purpose. They allow venting and enable some form of communication about matters with which people have difficulty. However, rants have an effect. Most carry a flavor of negativity, which often propagates through the discussion. And rants of an us-versus-them spirit tend to create a divide, at least temporarily. I accept rants will continue to occur and that the effects of rants will continue to occur--people will let off steam and those frustrated by the rant will in turn let off steam. Perhaps the aftermath will bring new insights, perhaps not.
quote:
ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Guys - yes youre wanted, yes youre needed; of course we're going to gripe about you now and then - you do after all, all do some inexplicable things and some of you do some terrible things, but we know youre not all bad. But the gals do need to let off steam from time to time - perhaps its best to do it somewhere private, out of your way.
And gals, what they want and need just as much is your approval - however grown up they are, and it hurts them when theyre told theyre all the same as the worst of them, and then they'll live up to that name because they'll get angry at the apparent rejection.
I appreciate your attempt to diffuse the matter and create a communication bridge.
I would like to add another perspective since the text above does not accurately describe my feelings. As my prior posts in this thread indicate, I was not too worked up by the thread. Still, I did not like it. It is not so much that I need an ego stroke--I do not all of a sudden feel that women in general or even the women who align with the idea in the OP reject me. But I do feel at the end of an unreasonable generalization that because the mentioned atrocities have been committed by men, all men, including myself, are evil. In a way it's similar to name calling--I have not suddenly begun to question my worth because I was called a name but it feels unfair and discourteous to me.
Incidentally, given the prior statements and context that I see for the proposed solution, I did not read the bit about caging men as a sexual fantasy but in the same political context as the preceding statements.
Perhaps part of the heat in this thread stems from communication styles. From what little I know about gender differences, women have a greater tendency to read and leave room for reading between the lines, whereas men are more likely to state the point more directly and interpret the point more directly. Furthermore, women have a greater tendency to speak to vent without attaching any action or greater significance to their words. And so really, I expect that this generalization is not intended as blindly as it seems. That is, I have reasonable confidence that posters who expressed that men in general are evil do not turly hold these atrocities against me or all men. Still, I think it would be better to not make what can be perceived as a blind generalization. I think the responsibility of clarity in conveying what one feels lies more with the writer than the reader.
quote:
But the gals do need to let off steam from time to time - perhaps its best to do it somewhere private, out of your way.
This idea appeals to reason.
Even if I did not feel as I do about the generalization, I could easily see via general empathy why some men have taken offense as they have--I think most people would in similar circumstances. I expect if a man came and posted a thread that listed several atrocities committed by women, generalized that all women are horrible, and suggested that all they are good for is labor and breeding while kept in cages, we would see similar objections from women. We would likely see some men come in to agree with said charges. And we would likely see men come in to disagree and defend women, as some women have to defend the men in this thread, which I appreciate.
It is hard to not feel affected by a generalization directed against a group to which one belongs. If the generalization is not directed against me, it is the responsibility of the person initiating the statement to clarify or qualify the statement as needed. It is hard for me fathom why some cannot fathom the objection by men.
I welcome help to broaden how I am looking at the matter to see why those who think the objections from men are unreasonable feel that way.
Cheers,
Sea
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RE: Do we really need men? - 
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