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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 6/29/2014 1:52:47 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Six years in and Obama isn't responsible for a single thing yet

Then why is Boehner suing over executive action? Why the whining about Obamacare?

Never happened.

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Post #: 21

RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 6/30/2014 6:26:43 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

First, Afghanistan has never had very long periods of stability.

Second, every western nation except Switzerland has interfered in the middle east, and most of the problems goes back to the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire after WW1. Boundaries were drawn without regard to the fact that they put ancestral enemies in the same country insuring that there would be internal fighting, then the countries that were chosen to administer the new areas only knew how to run colonies, using force, uh, deadly force, which created more problems.

In other words, the Western Nations can collectively fuck up a wet dream, and could not pour piss out of a boot with the instruction on the bottom of the heel.

QFT! You all can have your silly political arguments but historically the root of the problem goes back to the creation of fictitious nations without regard to tribal or ethnic differences. Good post Jlf.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 6/30/2014 7:33:20 AM

cloudboy

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Another way of putting it is that the costly US wars / occupations in Afghanistan and IRAQ haven't created stability. It's amazing to me that Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush can walk around with impunity and clear consciences while a peanut like Chelsea Manning serves a long prison sentence.

The GOP has always wanted to erase VIETNAM from the US war consciousness, and invading IRAQ was its attempt re-establish exceptional US power.

Well, history has trumped fantasy and Vietnam remains stubbornly in place.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/30/2014 7:39:31 AM >

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 6/30/2014 8:12:05 AM

Sanity

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FR -

Despite Obama's preaching that he has vanquished them, observant Muslims constantly make more gains

Latest example:

quote:

Al-Qaida splinter declares new Islamic caliphate

http://news.yahoo.com/al-qaida-splinter-declares-islamic-caliphate-195625121.html

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 6/30/2014 10:07:00 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

FR -

Despite Obama's preaching that he has vanquished them, observant Muslims constantly make more gains

Latest example:

quote:

Al-Qaida splinter declares new Islamic caliphate

http://news.yahoo.com/al-qaida-splinter-declares-islamic-caliphate-195625121.html

Vanquished?! You're making shit up.

To be sure, Obama, at times, has declared al Qaeda to be “on the run,” “decimated” and “on their heels” — all phrases, not incidentally, used by Cheney or his former boss, President George W. Bush, to describe al Qaeda. But Obama and Bush typically followed up those declarations with warnings that terrorism remains a threat, not only from al Qaeda but its affiliates and other extremists.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 6/30/2014 11:30:34 AM

Sanity

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Right... Because the terms "decimated" and "vanquished" have totally opposite meanings.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 6/30/2014 11:35:04 AM

mnottertail

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They dont have totally similar meanings. Perhaps you can give us a credible citation with the quote containing 'vanquished'. And the link since we know you are not an English language comprehender.

No, didn't think so.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 6/30/2014 4:14:32 PM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

As these three nations remain unstable and in a state of civil war, how much of that instability is due to incompetent US meddling?

How could anyone think Democracy could be installed in IRAQ by an outside, Christian nation?

It's hard to say how much, but it's clear that our presence in the region hasn't made things any better. Have we made things worse? Probably.

I could never understand how anyone could think that any government could be installed by an outside nation. Either you end up with a puppet state or a colony - and even if it isn't, people will still view it that way just the same.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/1/2014 5:21:54 AM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Six years in and Obama isn't responsible for a single thing yet

Then why is Boehner suing over executive action? Why the whining about Obamacare?

Never happened.

The point for those a bit slow is that he's quick to take credit and painfully slow at taking responsibility

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/1/2014 5:26:25 AM

Musicmystery

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Boehner might try actually doing something for which he could take credit.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/1/2014 12:41:10 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

How much due to Islam.

You are the self adorned expert. Why don't you tell us.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/1/2014 12:44:20 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Another way of putting it is that the costly US wars / occupations in Afghanistan and IRAQ haven't created stability. It's amazing to me that Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush can walk around with impunity and clear consciences while a peanut like Chelsea Manning serves a long prison sentence.

The GOP has always wanted to erase VIETNAM from the US war consciousness, and invading IRAQ was its attempt re-establish exceptional US power.

Well, history has trumped fantasy and Vietnam remains stubbornly in place.

Which war that the u.s. has been in in the past 100 years, did we win?

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/1/2014 12:54:18 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Right... Because the terms "decimated" and "vanquished" have totally opposite meanings.

It would not be beyond the capability of a fifth grader to recognize that dcimate means to reduce by a tenth while vanquish implies total reduction.
We all recognize that your post contain only puerile ignorance whose only purpose is to increase your post count.

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Post #: 33

RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/1/2014 12:59:03 PM

crazyml

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Quite. Unfortunately, I think that decimated is often - and I appreciate that this will appal you - used in a way that is not strictly correct.

I am almost certain that when Cheney described the opposition as being "Decimated" he wasn't claiming that their numbers had been reduced by 10%, but rather that they'd been well and truly beaten, Or "vanquished" if you will.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/1/2014 7:49:58 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Quite. Unfortunately, I think that decimated is often - and I appreciate that this will appal you - used in a way that is not strictly correct.

I am almost certain that when Cheney described the opposition as being "Decimated" he wasn't claiming that their numbers had been reduced by 10%, but rather that they'd been well and truly beaten, Or "vanquished" if you will.

You seem to be saying that cheney is a lying fucking moron?

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/2/2014 2:14:53 AM

crazyml

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I wasn't saying that at all. I was making the point that you'd rather bungled your comments with regard to the meaning of "decimated".

While I certainly do have an opinion about the veracity of Cheney's claims at the time, there is no way you can reasonably infer that opinion from my post.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/2/2014 6:51:19 AM

cloudboy

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If you know all that, why didn't our policymakers? If they did know it, why did they think one war could reduce years of history and culture?

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/2/2014 6:58:19 AM

cloudboy

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quote:

Which war that the u.s. has been in in the past 100 years, did we win?

We were on the winning sides of WWI, WWII.

WWI was a case where the victors won the battle but in reality all peoples lost in the outcome.

I'm thinking we won the Gulf War.

Besides that the US has sent soldiers and operatives into so many countries and distributed arms to so many sides that I can't keep count.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/2/2014 8:02:10 AM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

I wasn't saying that at all. I was making the point that you'd rather bungled your comments with regard to the meaning of "decimated".

I have not bungled anything. I pointed out the difference between decimated and vanquashed. I did not state nor imply that decimate was not serious. In the military if one sustanes 10% losses one runs out of resources pretty quickly. Consider that when germany's invasion of poland was complete the germans had lost about half of their armor and a third of their airforce. Consequently they called off ww2 until they could recoup their losses.
When you assume my meaning you are simply exposing you own ignorance.

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RE: Afghanistan - Syria - Iraq - 7/2/2014 8:05:53 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

Which war that the u.s. has been in in the past 100 years, did we win?

We were on the winning sides of WWI, WWII.

WWI was a case where the victors won the battle but in reality all peoples lost in the outcome.

I'm thinking we won the Gulf War.

Besides that the US has sent soldiers and operatives into so many countries and distributed arms to so many sides that I can't keep count.