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Question please... - 6/29/2014 7:11:44 PM

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In a Master/submissive relationship...is the Master entitle to force his submissive into doing things she wants nothing to do with? I am a submissive, and maybe a bad submissive since I refuse to be force into things I am not ready for. I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him...

Can you please share your opinions?

Thank you for your time...

RE: Question please... - 6/29/2014 7:22:40 PM

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From: Maryland
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Consensuality is key. Mutual consent given by both parties. Anything less than that is abuse. Even consensual non-consent is consensual (and is an oxymoron, if you think about it).

It sounds to me that you and your Master did not sit down and discuss Hard Limits (deal breakers) and Soft Limits (hates). If he does not respect your boundaries, you need to tell him in no uncertain terms that you will walk. Then back up your words with action. This does not make you a "bad" submissive. It makes you a woman who can stand up for herself and not get steam-rolled into doing things you don't want to do.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 6/29/2014 7:55:42 PM

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I agree with FieryOpal, it doesn't sound like the two of you discussed what your hard and soft limits were. Making you do something you don't want to do, without knowing if those things are on your hard limit list or things you just don't enjoy, I'll say it depends on what they are.

For instance my Master does most of the cooking, he enjoys cooking. I hate cooking but there are times he makes me cook dinner. I don't like having to do it but I like pleasing him so I'll cook without complaining about it. For us, hard limits whether they are sexual or non-sexual are always respected, soft limits are pushed but our agreement was that my soft limits can be pushed and I have my safe word if I feel I need to use it.

If he's not respecting your hard limits or your safe word, as FieryOpal said, let him know you will walk and then walk if he continues with his disrespect.

_____________________________

I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

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(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 6/29/2014 8:12:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wondering1958

In a Master/submissive relationship...is the Master entitle to force his submissive into doing things she wants nothing to do with? I am a submissive, and maybe a bad submissive since I refuse to be force into things I am not ready for. I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him...

Can you please share your opinions?

Thank you for your time...

Let's distinguish between soft limits and hard limits. Soft limits are those you don't want to do, but could be persuaded to do if the stars aligned. Hard limits are those you won't do - period.

Some Doms will push their subs to bend their soft limits. No good Dom will push his sub to break hard limits unless done very delicately and deliberately.

From your description, it's not clear whether these are hard or soft limits he's pushing. It sounds like you feel that he's pushing too fast.

"a bad submissive since I refuse to be force into things I am not ready for. " This is a very tricky judgment. It could be that you're being pressured too much, or that you feel guilty about not doing something.

" I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him..." No way. A Master does only what his slave wants? That's not a Master, that's a submissive.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 6/29/2014 9:10:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Let's distinguish between soft limits and hard limits. Soft limits are those you don't want to do, but could be persuaded to do if the stars aligned. Hard limits are those you won't do - period.

Some Doms will push their subs to bend their soft limits. No good Dom will push his sub to break hard limits unless done very delicately and deliberately.

From your description, it's not clear whether these are hard or soft limits he's pushing. It sounds like you feel that he's pushing too fast.

"a bad submissive since I refuse to be force into things I am not ready for. " This is a very tricky judgment. It could be that you're being pressured too much, or that you feel guilty about not doing something.

" I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him..." No way. A Master does only what his slave wants? That's not a Master, that's a submissive.

Agreed completely. (This example was given to me today and now using as point of reference). If you were given a 7 step process, and only did 4 of the 7, and believe that it's good enough? Then perhaps the "bad submissive" argument will stick. If you are CONSTANTLY being pushed in a direction that's uncomfortable, it's time for you to have a respectful discussion with your D. If you find yourself topping from the bottom, unhappy/unsatisfied with the dynamic, then it's not the one for you. Like with vanilla relationships it's not a "one size fits all" dynamic.

_____________________________

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(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: Question please... - 6/29/2014 10:35:06 PM

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It sounds like you rushed into a relationship without knowing the person you chose to be your master.

Either you never discussed what your limits were and/or there was not an acceptance of them... or he just ignored them all together, is what it sounds like.

In your search for belongingness, do not dismiss the importance of compatibility.

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(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 6/30/2014 5:26:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wondering1958

In a Master/submissive relationship...is the Master entitle to force his submissive into doing things she wants nothing to do with? I am a submissive, and maybe a bad submissive since I refuse to be force into things I am not ready for. I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him...

Can you please share your opinions?

Thank you for your time...

Let me check the Official Rule Book.

Oh, look here . . . it says couples of any lifestyle should talk to each other about their interpersonal dynamic.

but that said . . .

What would be the point of submitting to only what you want? How is that "submission"? The idea is that you *want* to please him, to be told what to do, at least for this man, at least within the parameters of your relationship.

Yes, a smart Master would take time to prepare new things. But since this is all in the abstract, and you're mainly just whining . . .

. . . couples of any lifestyle should talk to each other about their interpersonal dynamic.

To each other. Not about each other to strangers on the Internet. To each other.

Vanilla, slave, submissive, wild warrior woman, switch, dd, tih, whatever . . . talk to each other.

(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 6/30/2014 6:42:06 AM

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Hi there,

I suppose I should start by saying that there really no "standard" rules, people form all kinds of relationships with all kinds of protocols and expectations.

The important thing for you to consider is what is going to work for You!

Speaking for myself, my most important rule is that my partner and I are both fulfilled over the long term. That might very well mean that I expect her to do things that she doesn't want to do, or that she doesn't enjoy, if I think they're going to be to our benefit over time.

But again, it's not about me or my feelings - it's about you and yours.

If you're being bullied into doing things that you really dislike, in spite of communicating your concerns to the dom guy, then you have two very simple (simple to describe) choices - You accept, trusting him to lead you in the right direction, or you refuse.

None of us can make that choice for you, you have to make it.

So, yes, you need to be having this conversation with your Master.

You need to explore what your hard limits are, and make sure he is willing to accept them - And if they really are hard limits for you and he won't accept them as such then you're simply not right for eachother.

You then need to explain what it is that makes you uncomfortable, and listen carefully to his response. If it's "take it or leave it" then.... you know what you need to do.

Good luck.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 6/30/2014 8:02:00 AM

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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There are relationships where forcing someone is agreed to.

I'm never happy to have him announce he wants me to go to the bowling alley with him in order to watch his line and tell him if his hand position is right instead of peacefully reading my book, but I do it anyway.

With that said, he's never going to do inverted suspension to me, because that would make me physically ill. And no smart person wants to break their toys.

OP, it sounds like you didn't talk things out to determine if you were compatible.

I don't have to hard limit being shared because he's also monogamous. We are compatible in both kink and vanilla ways which is part of why we've been together 11 years now.

Next time talk first. Date and talk and take your time becoming friends. There's not much basic difference between a vanilla relationship and a kinky one. If you wouldn't jump right into a relationship on the first date normally, then don't do it just because a guy says he's dominant.

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(in reply to crazyml)

RE: Question please... - 6/30/2014 8:49:23 AM

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Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
<snip>
I don't have to hard limit being shared because he's also monogamous. We are compatible in both kink and vanilla ways which is part of why we've been together 11 years now.

Next time talk first. Date and talk and take your time becoming friends. There's not much basic difference between a vanilla relationship and a kinky one. If you wouldn't jump right into a relationship on the first date normally, then don't do it just because a guy says he's dominant.

Definitely this^ to which I'll add, if you wouldn't give yourself over to a man after meeting him on a vanilla date, why would you let yourself be so easily had with a Dom just because he's a Dom? I don't know whether your D/s dynamic unfolded in such a fashion, and perhaps it didn't. Whatever the case may be, practically every poster here has picked up on the glaringly obvious lack of compatibility and communications breakdown between you and your Master.

It's important for you to be honest with yourself. Are you allowing your raging hormones to cloud your judgment? Is it a D/s dynamic that you truly desire, or is it mainly kinky BDSM play? You can go to Dungeon events and find a Top willing to play with you, and bide your time until the right (more suitable) Master for you comes along before entering into a D/s relationship dynamic when both of you are ready to make this kind of commitment to one another, the same as you would if you were dating a vanilla man before becoming involved with him. Don't lower your standards or act impulsively for the sake of premature gratification.

DesFIP, you bring up an interesting angle on Hard Limit deal breakers. There are pre-deal breakers, meaning there are attributes and qualities which aren't on the negotiation table to begin with. For me, this is also monogamy, and for any gentleman for me to consider to be totally and unequivocally straight. He would also need to be submissive from the starting gate. This doesn't mean I'm entitled to dominate him right away, but it wouldn't hurt for him to rack up some brownie points with me ahead of time as a gesture of good faith (especially since the issue of being submissive is often suspect or used as a smokescreen by horny guys just looking to get their freak on).

[Edited for typo]

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 6/30/2014 8:56:57 AM >

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Question please... - 6/30/2014 9:18:22 AM

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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In order for me to have sufficient compatibility I needed all of my Must Haves, and none of my Deal Breakers. And I established that prior to getting naked.

But I don't get the feeling that the op did her due diligence. Nor is she accepting any personal responsibility for the failure of the relationship, she's blaming him for not making her happy.

The only person responsible for my happiness is me. Which includes making sure that the man I am with is the right man for me.

I do think the op had sub frenzy and jumped into this with the first halfway decent guy she found. Which tells me that he also considered her the first halfway decent woman he could find. And halfway decent isn't enough for me. It shouldn't be for the op either. But to get a great man, you need to be a great woman. Are you?

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(in reply to FieryOpal)

RE: Question please... - 6/30/2014 4:14:58 PM

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From: South Florida
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You are not required to enter into an arrangement for which you are not ready. This is still true if you identify as a sub/slave.

This is where negotiations are important. Before entering into any relationship you and your partner should discuss your interests, needs, and limits to see if you're a good match. It goes much further than "I'm a Master, you're a sub, let's fuck."

Your Master should make sure that your limits are respected. But at the same time you are responsible for knowing what these limits are and communicating them effectively. If you can't do that in your relationship, there is a serious problem. But if you can communicate these limits and both of you are still unhappy, that's a sign that you two aren't a good match.

I get the impression that you're new and inexperienced, and there's no shame in that. I suggest you take some time to see what kind of dynamic works best for you and what your limits are before calling anyone Master and/or accepting a collar.

< Message edited by RockaRolla -- 6/30/2014 4:17:00 PM >

(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 6/30/2014 5:06:23 PM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wondering1958

In a Master/submissive relationship...is the Master entitle to force his submissive into doing things she wants nothing to do with?

In short, no. Hard limits are lines that do not get crossed, ever. There are other limits which a submissive might feel undecided about, those are soft limits and with discussion can be pushed. I have pushed a few soft limits before without discussion with my slut, but we had discussed previously what hard limits were and soft limits were and she knew that I might push a soft limit unannounced.

quote:

I am a submissive, and maybe a bad submissive since I refuse to be force into things I am not ready for.

If you are not ready for something then you simply are not ready. This does not make you a bad anything, it just means that you are not ready.

quote:

I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him...

There is no Master's Handbook so there are only personal guidelines which are self imposed. What my slut is happy to do for me is to allow me to take control and do whatever pleases me. What pleases me is to value that trust and to not put her into a situation that I know she is uncomfortable with. She has not experienced a lot of things and therefore she is open to experimentation, this means that she is not entirely certain what she is fully willing to do. So I take it slow with her and we communicate, especially if I want to do something that she has never done.

It sounds like you have been asked to do more than you want to or are willing to do. This is either a result of a lack of communication or an assumption by your dominant that what he wants supersedes your limitations. Either way, it is time to have a talk with your dominant. Realize that you are the one giving over control and that if he is going to violate your trust in him, then you had better reevaluate whether or not you wish to relinquish your control to him.

Best of luck to you.

_____________________________

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(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 7/6/2014 11:21:02 PM

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Joined: 9/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wondering1958

In a Master/submissive relationship...is the Master entitle to force his submissive into doing things she wants nothing to do with? I am a submissive, and maybe a bad submissive since I refuse to be force into things I am not ready for. I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him...

Can you please share your opinions?

Thank you for your time...

Dear OP.

May I ask how long you have been together? If it is the start of a new relationship, you two need to discuss and talk about how you are feeling, what area's he is pushing that you are not ready for etc. Open communication and honesty are key in all relationships.

If you speak with him and he continues to press the matters that you are not ready for, and you have told him that there is boundary there, then I would be worried about the care He actually has for His submissive.

All in all, sit down, have a calm conversation, bring up what was uncomfortable, be sure to be polite and respectful. If you bring it to light, and explain why it was too much for you and your feelings behind it he may stop, or at the very least discuss his mindset, and want behind it.

a

(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 7/8/2014 6:56:09 AM

CloakedProtector

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Wondering1958, yes and no. I know this are two answers.

You normally negotiate a framework within which the Dominant can be active. Inside that framework there are things you are not ready for, no doubt, but the Dominant will push you over your limits while staying within the negotiated boundaries.

While regular play on well-know terrain to all participants is quite straight forward, certainly if you have a creative Dominant it can be extremely rewarding, visiting the edges is some more difficult.
For starters the sub knows very well where the edge is and her reluctance to cross it may be seeded in many reasons.
As an example.
I NEVER ask a sub whether she is bi-sexual or not and I would never accept any limits on basic sexuality (not BDSM related) things. So at some point a straight female sub may find herself involved into same-sex activities.
So there is a step to take and it is up to the Dominant to make her take it. However, why does the sub not like same-sex activity? Is it purely sexual preference? Is it education? Religious believe and rules? Or is it simply because of competition reasons, seeing the other women as a threat if she is for instance in a long term relationship.

The Dominant needs to read his sub/slave and smoothly bring her to and over the point of resistance. That needs skill, sometimes even punishment depending on how the sub resists (rude, politely, respectfully, etc). That is why in some area's good Dominants are hard to find. That skill doesn't come over-night? Someone teaches you, shows you, let you try out, etc. You are dealing with a human being, not a dog!
And no doubt some more brilliant people on the many BDSM web-sites are convinced they have that skill of their own and were born with it. Well yes, there surely will be some :)

So if you gave control to your Master in the areas where he is pushing you then you agreed to be pushed. If you push back, then indeed you aren't yet the fully accomplished sub/slave for who abiding by Master's wishes to his full satisfaction gives you the highest possible degree of pleasure and fulfilment. However, pushing back is human, normal and sometimes even expected and your Master will eventually have to deal with that. It sounds like you still have some way to go in your submissiveness, although based on the few phrases this may be over-stated, but I am sure things are not desperate if you are a submissive inside.

Always remember that if in the end you do not set the required steps and you Master doesn't succeed to make you set them then YOU took control. Normally that is the beginning of the end.

(in reply to alumina)

RE: Question please... - 7/9/2014 7:10:06 PM

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Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wondering1958

In a Master/submissive relationship...is the Master entitle to force his submissive into doing things she wants nothing to do with? I am a submissive, and maybe a bad submissive since I refuse to be force into things I am not ready for. I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him...

Can you please share your opinions?

Thank you for your time...

Depends on the relationship... for some the master doesn't get to force (or push or whatever) a sub/slave to do what they don't want... and in others it's not only okay but required (not only by a master, but for slaves this is a primary need in their relationships).

Comes down to what folks agree on and how that develops over time between them.

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(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 7/9/2014 7:45:12 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
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I know I can sound like a broken record at times (as does questions such as the OP's) but I'll keep saying it:

BDSM checklist. Google it, pick one, print, and both of you fill it out, exchange, and discuss prior to going hands-on. It helps avoid so much confusion and discomfort (the bad kind!)

Whether you think you know your partner well or not, don't play without this important step. Checklist discussions have NEVER failed to turn up important information that should be considered before minute 1 of a scene.

Best of luck.

(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 7/18/2014 2:45:42 PM

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I had discussed all of my HARD limits with a Dom before we met many times and my reasons for having them. Instead of respecting them he ignored them, and I was left ill for 48 hours straight, bruised, and in enough pain that even my prescription pain meds did not help. When we spoke next he kinda blew off my concerns. Then he acted shocked when I found another Dom that I made a commitment to because he respects me enough to not blow thru my hard limits. I think that in this lifestyle there are men who just like to hide under the title of Dom when they are just kinky women abusers. I treated him as such. Cut off all contact, when he persisted, I told my Dom about what happened, and when he messaged me while we were together I just said this is the guy. And then let my Dom deal with the issue.

(in reply to InHisHeart)

RE: Question please... - 7/18/2014 9:03:21 PM

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quote:

is the Master entitle to force his submissive into doing things she wants nothing to do with?

This is your decision.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to wondering1958)

RE: Question please... - 7/18/2014 9:08:37 PM

Posts: 3245
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quote:

I always believed that Master's most important rule, was to want only what his submissive was happy to do for him...

Then it is true for you. I respect that.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to wondering1958)

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