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SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 8:52:51 AM

vincentML

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The Court further erodes the status of individual citizens in favor of Corporations. Shameful.
As Justice Ginsburg stated in her rebuttal:

The distinction between a community made up of believers in the same religion and one embracing persons of diverse beliefs, clear as it is, constantly escapes the Court’s attention. One can only wonder why the Court shuts this key difference from sight.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/30/2014 8:53:20 AM >

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 9:47:32 AM

servantforuse

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SCOTUS got it right on both rulings today.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 9:54:24 AM

mnottertail

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Well, now closely held Islamic corporations can make women wear the hijab, refrain from pork, and so on, so its a big win for the US today and freedom of religion.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/30/2014 9:58:01 AM >

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:19:09 AM

Musicmystery

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Ron, what are you going to do if women refrain from your pork?

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:21:51 AM

servantforuse

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The labor ruling is the most interesting. Private citizens caring for a loved one in their own home will not be forced to join a union.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:22:42 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ron, what are you going to do if women refrain from your pork?

Move to Puerto Rico I guess.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:31:14 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The labor ruling is the most interesting. Private citizens caring for a loved one in their own home will not be forced to join a union.

Nobody was ever forced to join a union.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:31:46 AM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
The labor ruling is the most interesting. Private citizens caring for a loved one in their own home will not be forced to join a union.

This has nothing to do with the ruling.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:37:30 AM

servantforuse

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There were two rulings this morning.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:58:36 AM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The Court further erodes the status of individual citizens in favor of Corporations. Shameful.
As Justice Ginsburg stated in her rebuttal:

The distinction between a community made up of believers in the same religion and one embracing persons of diverse beliefs, clear as it is, constantly escapes the Court’s attention. One can only wonder why the Court shuts this key difference from sight.

Its a 5-4 ruling, drawn down political ideology lines. Should we be surprised that a US Supreme Court Justice named 'Alito' has no problem with corporations dictating religious viewpoints onto US Citizens? Just as he had not problem torturing the fuck out of people?

This ruling is not a good thing for Americans in the long run. That government entities that exist outside the US Government can dictate your religious practices and beliefs is down right alarming! You want to worship on Easter? Sorry, you'll have to work on that day. Wish to praise God? Nope, not on company time. 'The Corporation' is a government type. Its actually based on feudalism. The purpose of the US Constitution was to limit the idea of government's (in what ever form it took) ability rule over those found within its domain. The Bill of Rights was aimed to protect individual ideas and freedoms from said government.

That the corporation can now dictate your religious freedoms as much as your freedoms of speech and press, should be chilling to any real American not already brainwashed by the conservative right. I'm sure those conservatives will wake up when the 'The Corporation' wins the US Supreme Court case that allows it to require citizens to remove ownership of all firearms or be fired. Or that 'The Corporation' obtains the 'right' to search your person, place, papers and property at any time, for any reason, to make sure your a good little slave. That they demand you house some of their security guards that recently came on the payroll to put down some 'liberal activists', and doesn't bother to pay for their upkeep. We consider some of this stuff just plain laughable, right? Just like at the start of this court case; many thought this was laughable of an idea.....

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:58:44 AM

DaddySatyr

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I read the ruling, earlier today and if I'm not mistaken (I'm not a lawyer), there's a part of the ruling that gets over-looked:

This ruling will only allow companies with very few owners (my interpretation was smaller businesses and large corporations that are almost wholly owned by one family) to "set the tone" of their public face.

Like it or not, you can't have it both ways; if there's such a thing as "corporate citizens" (I don't think there are/should be), the important word there is "citizen" and that's where the constitution comes into play. That wonderful document protects a citizen's right to freedom of religion. In fact, the wording is very specific:

quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ...

So, if corporations are citizens, they are entitled to not have the exercise of their religion curtailed in any way.

I want to re-state: I don't think corporations are or should be viewed as citizens but, as long as they are ...

Now, I think the ruling should absolutely apply to small, one-owner businesses. I don't think that just because a citizen owns a business (which contributes to the country's economic good) that they should be forced - by law - to go against their faith/conscience/morals/ethics (choose your word).

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 6/30/2014 10:59:47 AM >

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 10:59:47 AM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse
There were two rulings this morning.

That would be found under a different thread. Since both 'rulings' are on totally different topics.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 11:06:45 AM

MrRodgers

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Few people wish to realize and even the courts are in denial by confirming, that the last private authoritarian institution in America, is...the corporation.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 11:21:58 AM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I read the ruling, earlier today and if I'm not mistaken (I'm not a lawyer), there's a part of the ruling that gets over-looked:

This ruling will only allow companies with very few owners (my interpretation was smaller businesses and large corporations that are almost wholly owned by one family) to "set the tone" of their public face.

Like it or not, you can't have it both ways; if there's such a thing as "corporate citizens" (I don't think there are/should be), the important word there is "citizen" and that's where the constitution comes into play. That wonderful document protects a citizen's right to freedom of religion. In fact, the wording is very specific:

quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ...

So, if corporations are citizens, they are entitled to not have the exercise of their religion curtailed in any way.

I want to re-state: I don't think corporations are or should be viewed as citizens but, as long as they are ...

Now, I think the ruling should absolutely apply to small, one-owner businesses. I don't think that just because a citizen owns a business (which contributes to the country's economic good) that they should be forced - by law - to go against their faith/conscience/morals/ethics (choose your word).

How about a fair two questions there:

Is a business a government onto itself? And if such a business is a government, should it also be limited the same as the US Government towards all persons (not just US Citizens) found under its domain (just like the US Government)?

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 11:26:23 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ron, what are you going to do if women refrain from your pork?

That's ok, he has the airport bathrooms as back up.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 11:27:44 AM

mnottertail

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I see you got new scabs on your knees and a couple of coldsores, you have been to the caucuses again, haven't you?

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 11:29:56 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I see you got new scabs on your knees and a couple of coldsores, you have been to the caucuses again, haven't you?

I keep telling you, I don't do nutsackers, that's your thing.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 11:38:25 AM

mnottertail

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You are a liar and nutsacker. Not at all an unusual combination.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 11:43:08 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You are a liar and nutsacker. Not at all an unusual combination.

Just what did I lie about? You do understand what a lesbian is right? And I don't think it takes much reading comprehension to figure out which of the two of us is obsessed with nutsackers. After all you mention then in damn near every post. And as far as being a nutsacker, you haven't been able to define them so that's really a meaningless insult at this point. So I can only conclude that you are talking out of your ass again. what a surprise. Now why don't you run along to the nearest airport bathroom and see if you calm yourself down for a bit.

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RE: SCOTUS on HOBBY LOBBY and religious freedom - 6/30/2014 11:46:06 AM

Raiikun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And as far as being a nutsacker, you haven't been able to define them so that's really a meaningless insult at this point.

Really, I just see that term as code for "This post isn't worth reading; skip to the next one."

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