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RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 2:49:26 PM

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
One of the things that absolutely drives me mad on the forums is the adamant dislike people get for a person because of something they once posted to a thread.

I hate to disagree with you Maria, but if someone espouses something that I find morally repugnant, then I am going to adamantly dislike them forever. And I think that's the right thing to do. I'm human, I have judgment. And I believe it is appropriate to use that judgment, otherwise why do we have that ability?

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MariaB)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 2:57:37 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I like Micheal, I hope he carries on posting. I haven't seen many of your posts but I get the impression you say it like it is!

Personally I look forward to seeing your future posts and I can promise you this, whatever you say I won't hold it against you in the future

Thanks Maria.

And, I appreciate what you have said. I know it's hard, sometimes, to speak against someone who has "that reputation"...and I honestly wouldn't do it if I didn't feel strongly about it.

It just feels, sometimes, that one is climbing an impregnable hill...when the backlash is that "oh well, that gal knows nothing"....

I get the desire to stand behind someone who has the "reputation". Really, I do. But, on the other hand, I have to wonder about someone who lives on that reputation, while at the same time working against it.

Do we go by what he or she was...or do we judge them by what they are now?

With that being said...I don't have a problem calling shit on what *I* view as shit. If others don't agree, that's just life.

As far as I'm concerned...I don't give a crap if other people agree or disagree with me. That's just the nature of these forums. And, I have no problem calling people out on their shit. Yes, I haven't been here for long...but I have an inkling of what has happened before my time. And, frankly, it's going to be a hard sell for anyone to convince me that I should listen to what Michael has to say. Yup...his reputation precedes him....If someone can't "corral" a Domme...why the hell should I respect him?

(in reply to MariaB)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 3:00:09 PM

Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff

I think the littleladybug reacted to Michael's post because she felt defensive. She's fairly new ( I think I read that) and full and complete submission is not her chosen dynamic. That is fine. She could have expressed that with less vitriol. Maybe she will come back after cooling off a bit. I hope she does.

Interesting comment.

I'm not "fairly new"....and can probably only be viewed as "new" in geological terms. I am just out of an 8 year committed relationship with a Dom, and before that was dabbling around for about 5-7 years.

So, 15-16 years.

I think that the term "defensive" is completely misguided here. I'm simply calling out an attitude that I think is wrong. Apparently, that doesn't fly with certain people here...but, so be it. As has been mentioned on this thread, SimplyMichael and I are not compatible. That might very well be the understatement of all of CollarSpace. Again, SO BE IT. I don't care. I'm looking at the words, not the person. It doesn't matter to me that people disagree with me. We're here, or so I thought, to actually TALK about issues.

So, you hoped that I would come back, and here I am. Now, honestly, why SHOULD I change my position? I mean, aside from the idea that I should apparently agree with someone with a "reputation" here. Got anything else?

Where did I say that you should change your position? Oh. That's right. I didn't. You ARE very defensive. It's shows in your reply to me.
I merely stated that you could have made your position known with much less....nastiness, and that I hoped you would come back with a more controlled response. If you had done that the first time around, It would have resulted in a lively, intelligent debate, that others could have learned from. Instead, a good thread, became a poop flinging contest. Sheesh.

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Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.

I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 3:20:35 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blonderfluff

Where did I say that you should change your position? Oh. That's right. I didn't. You ARE very defensive. It's shows in your reply to me.
I merely stated that you could have made your position known with much less....nastiness, and that I hoped you would come back with a more controlled response. If you had done that the first time around, It would have resulted in a lively, intelligent debate, that others could have learned from. Instead, a good thread, became a poop flinging contest. Sheesh.

Oh hell, honestly, Blonderfluff, seriously...what would have changed your response to me? I mean, aside from me saying, "oh gee, Michael is totally the bestest Dom ever"? Please...treat me like I'm 5 and actually spell out where I've been "nasty". Because, honestly, I DON'T get it. Oh, SIGH....wait....let me do the dramatic "Domme" sigh.....

This thread sucks because someone has the gall to say that they think someone is full of shit, and you don't agree with it??? Even worse, she considers herself a sub?? If it helps with your indignation, I'm here rolling my eyes AND snorting.

If I had "agreed" with you the first time around, things would have been different. But, fact is. I don't. I don't believe that my words, aside from in Michael's mind, have even approached "vitriol". It's a disagreement that has taken on a life of its own...no more, no less.

It's just become a "fun" thing on this thread to see how far it will go.

I have absolutely NO problem being the only person here with my opinion. Apparently, there are people who have issues with that. Which, honestly, just gives me a chuckle.

(in reply to Blonderfluff)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 3:45:35 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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Based on what's happening in that other thread, I thought Michael might have been a chiropractor.

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"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 3:51:18 PM

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Based on what's happening in that other thread, I thought Michael might have been a chiropractor.

Tee hee...you are just the absolute CUTEST!!!!

(in reply to stef)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 6:02:53 PM

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

your god sux.

He's a wise man, Thompson. He realised that some sort of creature would feel the need to roll around in its own shite - so he invented dogs.

Humans were meant for better things.

This would be better than rolling around in shit?

They've got pots to wash, floors to scrub, that sort of thing.

This is a tight fuckin' ship and there's no room for any sort of aspiration of pleasure.

When God made us in his image he didn't conceive of two fuckin' slavvering idiots.

He had in mind frugality, piety and Puritanism.

I was more of a mind for a bit of kinky fukery instead.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 6:05:34 PM

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

As has been mentioned on this thread, SimplyMichael and I are not compatible. That might very well be the understatement of all of CollarSpace.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much
You are outspoken... he has a collection of gags.
You are young... he's old and needs the exercise.
Your profile says you are seeking advice... he is full of it.
You are modest...he,not so much.
It sounds like a contraplete to me.

Wow....you've totally convinced me!! Thanks!! :D

Unllike ron I do not charge for blow jobs.

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 6:15:06 PM

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Joined: 5/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Unllike ron I do not charge for blow jobs.

Always good to know. *s*

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 6:22:08 PM

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Nothing personal, and I shall admit to some bias on holding Dominants to a higher standard of ethical conduct.

Higher than whom???submissives???switches???

In the simplest terms, for those who can't find their backside with both hands, and/or who are experienced with BDSM activities but D/s authority&power dynamic-impaired:
1. Within the context of a D/s relationship, I'm not concerned that a submissive will violate my Hard Limits. Neither would one infringe upon my Soft Limits.
2. I am no longer open to considering a switch at the present time--this would also be moot point.
3. What submissives and S/switches do or don't do outside of my own personal dynamic with my own sub does not reflect back upon me personally.
4. They are not in an assumed leadership position where their authority comes into question in terms of trustworthiness on the D side of the kneel, or (informal) accountability among their Dominant peers.
(For the purposes of this discussion, I will place S/switches in a neutral zone unless and until they wish to be recognized as filling a Dominant role.)
5. You may operate differently as to what boundaries you have set for yourself and who you trust to honor them; but if I have a bitch who has Hard Limits, those will always be respected. If one of those Hard Limits is not sucking on cock (whether real or fake), then in this hypothetical situation, he can rest assured that I will never put him a position where he has to suck on my fake cock. Get it now?

Which brings me back to the original OP, and the issue of "forced" bisexuality. This thread went off into the direction of M/f dynamics. This is outside of my purview, but what I had detected was the blurring of lines as to what constitutes Hard and Soft Limits, which then brought into question consensuality. Since consensuality is what everything BDSM and D/s hinges upon, this is no small matter.
From a F/m perspective, there are many male submissives who want to be "forced" by their Mistress to perform acts under her direction. As far as I'm concerned, if a male sub wants to perform a "forced" bi act, then I am not on board with this, and in my experience these kinds of male subs have latent bisexuality issues.

I have heard accounts of male submissives who didn't know they had the right of refusal or to withdraw consent who have done things they have either regretted afterwards and felt ashamed of doing, or else of allowing themselves to get conditioned into believing that blindly following their Dominant somehow made them a better submissive.
In the latter case, I personally do not want a submissive who does not have firm boundaries because I don't want a man who would blindly submit to me. If his boundaries are all loosey-goosey, then what good are they? What good is his word to me that his own promises are inviolable?
This is just my perspective on this matter, to return to the theme of this topic.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 6:28:36 PM

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Nothing personal, and I shall admit to some bias on holding Dominants to a higher standard of ethical conduct.

Higher than whom???submissives???switches???

My question remains unanswered.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/18/2014 6:29:11 PM >

(in reply to FieryOpal)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/18/2014 6:53:30 PM

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Nothing personal, and I shall admit to some bias on holding Dominants to a higher standard of ethical conduct.

Higher than whom???submissives???switches???

My question remains unanswered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

1. Within the context of a D/s relationship, I'm not concerned that a submissive will violate my Hard Limits. Neither would one infringe upon my Soft Limits.
2. I am no longer open to considering a switch at the present time--this would also be [a] moot point.
3. What submissives and S/switches do or don't do outside of my own personal dynamic with my own sub does not reflect back upon me personally.
4. They are not in an assumed leadership position where their authority comes into question in terms of trustworthiness on the D side of the kneel, or (informal) accountability among their Dominant peers.

I do not deal in damaged goods. The less damage other Dominants do IF they have conducted themselves honorably, the easier it is for me to build trust. I am not constantly having to prove my trustworthiness in areas where I shouldn't have to be reinventing the wheel.
Nonetheless, I am not one to look the other way beyond my own vested self-interests, so it isn't merely a self-serving motivation (confined to F/m circles).

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/19/2014 1:55:31 AM

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
One of the things that absolutely drives me mad on the forums is the adamant dislike people get for a person because of something they once posted to a thread.

I hate to disagree with you Maria, but if someone espouses something that I find morally repugnant, then I am going to adamantly dislike them forever. And I think that's the right thing to do. I'm human, I have judgment. And I believe it is appropriate to use that judgment, otherwise why do we have that ability?

A few years ago I had an online friend on here who jumped on everything I said in the forums and adamantly agreed with me. When I disagreed with him over something he said that clearly couldn’t stand up to logical scrutiny, he let leash a concealed and more unpleasant side. From that day forth I was the target of his sarcasms, metaphors and... satire. He became so bitter; It was as though I’d insulted his mother or deliberately run over his dog, when all I’d actually done was disagree with him in an otherwise spirited discussion.

I often recoil at the vitriol, not only on here but on just about every site I use, (dog forums are an exception) but I accept that uncivil remarks and sarcasms are part of the course in any heavy debating room. Its not something that has me disliking a poster. Different if I see them repeatedly bullying others or start insulting my personal relationships.

On certain forums I’m careful who I quote and disagree with because some people can’t see the difference between a strongly stated disagreement and harassment.

I love challenging peoples ideas. I can’t simply accept other people's ideologies if they directly conflict with my own. I love a rigorous debate, but unfortunately they often turn conversations into a smoking battlefield. That's fine, providing when we move on to the next discussion we aren't still carrying that smoking gun.

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My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/19/2014 5:46:09 AM

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Nothing personal, and I shall admit to some bias on holding Dominants to a higher standard of ethical conduct.

Higher than whom???submissives???switches???

(in reply to FieryOpal)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/19/2014 9:17:00 AM

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

I have been curled up in the corner crying because I offered blowjobs and Ron never showed up......

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yep

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/19/2014 9:19:43 AM

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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Miscommunication, you were supposed to be HERE last night, I waited up for you.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/19/2014 11:22:11 AM

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Higher than whom???submissives???switches???

Am I a submissive or a S/switch that I have walked a mile in their shoes?
If one asks for feedback or input from Dominants, then I won't hesitate to voice my opinion. (Not an issue with me

)
Of course, with friendships and in my intimate relationships, there are different sets of rules or mutual understandings.

If you feel left out, then I'll be happy to oblige you with my recommendation for your personal enlightenment and insight:
Low Latent Inhibition https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120511032245AAEMdSv
(This may, however, just be a fancy term for poor impulse control and lacking a moral compass, as with sex addicts.)

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/19/2014 11:24:56 AM

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I have been curled up in the corner crying because I offered blowjobs and Ron never showed up......

I offered to accept two of them for free.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/19/2014 11:32:31 AM

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Nothing personal, and I shall admit to some bias on holding Dominants to a higher standard of ethical conduct.

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Higher than whom???submissives???switches???

Am I a submissive or a S/switch that I have walked a mile in their shoes?

It makes no matter whose shoes you have walked in.
The question was higher than whom???submissives???switches???
Why would a dominant be expected to be more ethical than a submissive or switch?

(in reply to FieryOpal)

RE: Forced Bi - 9/19/2014 11:44:04 AM

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Nothing personal, and I shall admit to some bias on holding Dominants to a higher standard of ethical conduct.

Why would a dominant be expected to be more ethical than a submissive or switch?

Did I say that? Please re-read, or get somebody to help you with the big words.
This is MY personal bias as a Dominant myself. I was speaking AS a Dominant to another Dominant, and I don't believe SM needs an interpreter for him, but you can ask him if you like.
I have more than given you a detailed explanation of where I am coming from.
That is all.

[ETA bolding]

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 9/19/2014 11:59:54 AM >

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to thompsonx)

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