Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (Full Version)

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CloakedProtector -> Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/13/2014 2:29:40 AM)

Now doubt "trust" is in the top of the list in as well vanilla as BDSM relationships.

In BDSM it even gets an extra angle because submissives must also trust the Dominents skills in the exercise of the many BDSM disciplines among which some require serious hands-on knowledge, while others some psychological insight. Nobody enters a BDSM relationship with the intend to come out of it damaged, physically or mentally.

However, my question is: Is trust the most important, or if we do not want to rank in a generic way, is it at all times the most important thing a submissive should find in a Dominant to engage play.

As an example, trust does not protect against loss of control/temper for instance. In the S/M part of BDSM therefore I think trust is insufficient to engage in play with a Sadist. How do submissives see that, is, in BDSM, trust enough in all cases and does/will all the rest flow out of it as time progresses.

I purposely left personality/physical attraction and matching, etc out of the equation.

I am curious about the "rules of engagement" :) What criteria do weight?

TIA



InHisHeart -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/13/2014 4:59:08 AM)

Trust to both of us is of the utmost importance in all aspects of our life together.

Speaking only for the BDSM part of our relationship, again trust is the utmost importance to both of us. I personally would never allow myself to put my physical and/or emotional well-being in the hands of someone I didn't have complete trust in, someone I did not trust with my life.

I trust that he will have control over his actions. How I feel completely comfortable in trusting him that he won't lose control with his sadism side is by knowing him well enough to know how he handles and deals with frustrations, anger and every other emotion in every day living or when something traumatic has happened, when he's encountered disappointments, when we've had disagreements, etc. If someone can't or doesn't deal with issues life throws at you in a rational way then he's not going to be a Dom I would choose to be with. The same goes for him, he wouldn't want to be with a submissive who doesn't/can't deal with life's unexpected turns in a rational way.

I trust that if I need to use my safe word, he will take it seriously and stop whatever is going on immediately. I trust that my physical and emotional well-being is top priority to him. I trust that he knows me well enough that he can read me and tell if something needs to be stopped by my reaction, body language, look in my eyes if for some reason I can't safe word or signal him.

He also trusts that I will let him know if things are going to far for me to handle physically or emotionally during play, even if it's a discipline action, he trusts that I will openly and honestly communicate with him about what I'm feeling, he trusts that I'm not going to let something happen that will damage me. He trusts that I'm not going to get pissed off at him for some reason and run to the cops with marks on my body saying he abused me when in reality it was all consensual.

For us, it's quite simple, if there's not complete mutual trust in all parts of our relationship then there's no relationship.





DesFIP -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/13/2014 11:35:36 AM)

If he had no self control, then of course I wouldn't trust him.

I trust him to be smart, to research stuff before deciding on it. I trust that his proven history of good decision making will continue on.

But equally I trust myself to research stuff and not assume that the total responsibility for my well being lies in his hands. I trust myself to be smart and find out info, tell him my concerns and give him added info to learn about.

I don't trust him to remember everything. He trusts me to remind him if he's making a mistake.

It is no more important than in vanilla relationships though. I trust him to keep his word and be monogamous and not give me a std. Same in most vanilla relationships.

The risk of him hitting me wrong and me needing stitches is minor compared to the risk of having a child with someone and them bailing because life as a father isn't fun.



littleladybug -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/13/2014 11:56:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CloakedProtector



As an example, trust does not protect against loss of control/temper for instance. In the S/M part of BDSM therefore I think trust is insufficient to engage in play with a Sadist. How do submissives see that, is, in BDSM, trust enough in all cases and does/will all the rest flow out of it as time progresses.


Wow...if not trust, then what?

I've been involved with several sadists, both as play partners, and in more serious relationships. "Trust", I believe, in this scenario, needs to be defined not only as a submissive's trust in their partner, but more as trust in themselves and their own decision-making skills should he lose control.

After many years of trial and error, I have come to trust enough in my own decision-making skills to be able to give myself to someone, who, I would be reasonably sure, would not betray that trust. Of course, I cannot be assured that someone will not lose control. But, again, should that happen, trust in MYSELF would lead me to conclude the relationship and move on to something more suited to my desires.




eliseobeys -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/16/2014 2:30:31 PM)

The first thing I look for is if he shows mutual respect. I was taught that Respect is the core principle of bdsm or basically rule number one.

Ive been hurt plenty by people Ive trusted in the lifestyle. Mostly by accident but once or twice by people who didnt respect me and what ever limitations I had at the time.

Lets face it you submit in real enough times eventually someone will push you too far, or break your "trust" entirely. It can and does happen from time to time depending on a great deal of many things.

So I look more for the dominant who can control one's self. Who doesnt act foolish but has a good sense of humor. Who has a good knowledge base and is safety conscious or is willing to learn from the submissive and others. One who isnt lazy and is willing to lead by example. One who likes to share me with others (Im very very poly and not in the traditional way). Are they patient, or do they snap easily at others. Do they have ethics or are they selfish. etc

That and he or she has to be able to make virginia get wet. My physical responces Dom oooOOOooo meter is telling me no good lol. Now I am not speaking in purely a chemical sense. I mean the way one carries him or her self. How they interact with me and others. How they think.






Gauge -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/16/2014 5:58:35 PM)

If you do not trust the one who will immobilize you then you have no business letting that person do so. I have always classified the BDSM relationship as transcending the vanilla relationship world because of the fact that there must be a deeper degree of trust between the couple. I would say not only is trust the most important thing, it is critical, without it, you have nothing.



Rough4Me -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/16/2014 7:01:55 PM)

Trust, it is the most important thing. In fact I think it is the first thing and then everything else.



Marini -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/16/2014 7:47:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

If you do not trust the one who will immobilize you then you have no business letting that person do so. I have always classified the BDSM relationship as transcending the vanilla relationship world because of the fact that there must be a deeper degree of trust between the couple. I would say not only is trust the most important thing, it is critical, without it, you have nothing.


I agree 100%, without trust, you have nothing.
The Dominant needs to be able to trust the submissive, just as much as the submissive needs to be able to trust the Dominant.



DaCat6 -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/17/2014 7:17:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

If you do not trust the one who will immobilize you then you have no business letting that person do so. I have always classified the BDSM relationship as transcending the vanilla relationship world because of the fact that there must be a deeper degree of trust between the couple. I would say not only is trust the most important thing, it is critical, without it, you have nothing.


I think this says it all in a very short and very clear paragraph.

I will comment on your firs sentence however. If you do not trust the one who will immobilize you then you have no business letting that person do so. I say, if you do not trust you will not allow that person to immobilize you because to 'not trust' is to fear and fear is the intuition that protects us.



CloakedProtector -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/17/2014 3:15:56 PM)

DaCaT6, I like your statement:

"if you do not trust you will not allow that person to immobilize you because to 'not trust' is to fear and fear is the intuition that protects us. "

If "not trust=to fear" then follows "not fearing=to trust".
So" not fearing=not being protected" because fear is the intuition that protects us.

So trust disarms.

Your sentence could very well catch the essence of why trust needs to be deserved and why we are very careful before trusting someone.

Trust creates vulnerability and broken trust disappointment.



eliseobeys -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/17/2014 3:20:18 PM)

In some circles overcoming one's fear is an integral part of a submissives journey.

Trust is earned one deed at a time.




DaCat6 -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/18/2014 3:41:38 AM)

Thanks CloakedProtector

@eliseobeys

Now of course, because what I referred to was about tying someone up it moved onto the subject of BDSM and not merely D/s

Overcoming ones fear in both D/s and S/m depends on how comfortable you feel with a person. If you suspect that person has an unpredictable side, you may well go down the D/s route but would hesitate about being tied up, not because you fear being tied up but because you fear being tied up by said person.



Arturas -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/18/2014 10:56:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eliseobeys

In some circles overcoming one's fear is an integral part of a submissives journey.

Trust is earned one deed at a time.




What circles? I think having trust and overcoming fear are not related milestones. The fear submissives overcome is of their own failure. A failure having nothing to do with trust except in themselves.



eliseobeys -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/18/2014 1:19:50 PM)

I dont believe I am being well understood.

When I agree to go off with a dominant for the first time and be totally at his mercy, be blindfolded, drove in his car somewhere etc...no amount of previous interaction is going to remove all fear from my mind. I have to have the strength to submit any way, I have to hope he will not take me too far, or hurt me beyond what I can bear etc.

I will trust him more after that.

In the circles I was mentioning play involving these kinds of head games is more common. It adds to the thrill.

Not everyone out there lives in some all SSC first box.





DaCat6 -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/19/2014 2:41:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eliseobeys

I dont believe I am being well understood.

When I agree to go off with a dominant for the first time and be totally at his mercy, be blindfolded, drove in his car somewhere etc...no amount of previous interaction is going to remove all fear from my mind. I have to have the strength to submit any way, I have to hope he will not take me too far, or hurt me beyond what I can bear etc.

I will trust him more after that.

In the circles I was mentioning play involving these kinds of head games is more common. It adds to the thrill.

Not everyone out there lives in some all SSC first box.





You were understood and you have just re-iterated what I thought you meant.

Fortunately not that many submissive females will put themselves at a mans mercy on a first meet. That doesn't prove your submission and its nothing to do with strength.

You say you will trust more after laying yourself vulnerable. That depends on you coming out of it unharmed or even dead in a ditch.

I don't think you make a good advert for 'submission'. What you say you do has nothing to do with submission and all to do with risky games.



eliseobeys -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/19/2014 9:29:16 AM)

Again, I didnt say when we first meet...I said when we go off to be alone and have me at his mercy for the first time...big difference. (Though I have known people who do go have one night stands and the like, just like people in vanilla land.)

And guess what the community is not solely composed of ssc folks, there are a lot of risk aware kink people out there too.

Not the usual online perspective I guess.



littleladybug -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/19/2014 9:41:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eliseobeys


And guess what the community is not solely composed of ssc folks, there are a lot of risk aware kink people out there too.

Not the usual online perspective I guess.


"Risk aware kink people"? Wow, that's quite a euphemism.

You're right, it's not the usual "online perspective". At least, not what I've seen. Thankfully. With as many people that I have seen come onto sites like this with absolutely no experience in the lifestyle, and tons of questions, it's good to see that most people subscribe to the "SSC" mantra when explaining things. Even if they do not always subscribe to it themselves, it's nice to see that most of the time, they endorse it on a public forum.





DaCat6 -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/19/2014 10:13:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eliseobeys

Again, I didnt say when we first meet...I said when we go off to be alone and have me at his mercy for the first time...big difference. (Though I have known people who do go have one night stands and the like, just like people in vanilla land.)

And guess what the community is not solely composed of ssc folks, there are a lot of risk aware kink people out there too.

Not the usual online perspective I guess.


If you want to go down the SSC route lets spell it out.
Safe = making sure you are not going to walk away permanently scarred and so on.
Sane = Don't give yourself over or dominate someone who has mental instability if it could be at all damaging.
Consensual = Consenting to the act.

Risk aware is just another name for SSC or can you tell me the difference?

I'm a hard core rl BDSMer and so its really, really important I go down the SSC route. I don't do things to people non-consensually, I look at every aspect of a scene that could be potentially unsafe. I don't play with drunks, druggies or people with mental problems that could be damaged by that play.

"Online" You couldn't be further from the truth darling but nice try.







eliseobeys -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/19/2014 11:33:16 AM)

Shrugs.

I see SSC as being promoted online and in the r/l community as a good thing but I do tend to stand up and mention its not the only way people play. Its always politically correct to promote it anyway.

And yes the way it was explained to me RAK is not the same since it often excludes some elements that are are not inherent to SSC.

I am glad its important for you though.







Gauge -> RE: Is trust the most important in D/s relationships? (7/19/2014 1:04:39 PM)

There is a difference between being aware of a risk and doing it anyway and having an agreement to be Safe Sane and Consensual. It is kind of like the difference between knowing that going 150 MPH in your car carries a great deal of risk, but you do it anyway, or obeying the speed limit and all the traffic laws and accepting that there is still risk.



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