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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 10:17:30 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Not hardly. Einstein and the rest but specifically Einstein did understand very fundamentally the causal relationship. It is at the very heart of special relativity. And none of those scientists discovered anything that is impossible in regards to ordinary causality.


Geniuses and especially gifted individuals think outside of the box.

Without the aid of the modern computer, Isaac Newton manually calculated algorithms and deciphered intricate mathematical puzzles pertaining to Hebrew Bible Codes.

You mean Newton wasted years on nonsense, there are no codes in the bible. And there is nothing special about calculating algorithms. Anyone can do it. What Newton did that was special was invent calculus and codify the classical laws of motion.


You call it a waste. One man's waste is another man's treasure trove. Paving paths and blazing trails opens the way for others to follow and to build upon original precepts. Neither are more special than the other. One does not invent new methodologies and consolidate principles out of thin air.

You're welcome to look into it all you want. There is nothing there. Calculus and the laws of motion are real things that are useful. Alchemy and bible prophecy aren't.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 10:49:31 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

You call it a waste. One man's waste is another man's treasure trove. Paving paths and blazing trails opens the way for others to follow and to build upon original precepts. Neither are more special than the other. One does not invent new methodologies and consolidate principles out of thin air.

You're welcome to look into it all you want. There is nothing there. Calculus and the laws of motion are real things that are useful. Alchemy and bible prophecy aren't.

Surely even you were aware that alchemy was the foundation stone and predecessor of modern-day chemistry.
Just as the astronomical calculations critical to interpreting astrology gave us invaluable compendia for the furtherance of astronomy as an exact science.
The Holy Bible, if nothing else, is a multi-cultural historical record and has been called the greatest compilation of literature ever written, if this is the only angle of light you can perceive.
And thank you very much, but I don't need your permission, if that's what you meant to convey.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 11:02:48 AM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Humans need social order, stability, purpose, a sense of belonging, meaning, and a way to process death. If you stacked all these on a scale v. truth, I think truth loses and might actually be treated as threat. Truth for many people is what works for them as opposed to being objectivist (objective.)

I don't say this to refute your thesis -- but if given a choice between truth or bread & mysticism, people generally prefer the latter (premise of the Grand Inquisitor by Dostoevsky.)

There's an old story from the first days of the USSR when the Soviets where trying to ween the people off religion in favor of science (but in fact ween then off of Religion in favor of their own secular religion - Communism.) In a remote village, maybe in the Ukraine, an old statue of Jesus was bleeding. All the religious folk there took this as a sign that Christ was weeping over the red-terror and communist takeover of the region. The Soviets sent two scientists out to investigate the statue, and their analysis revealed a kind or weird rusting-corrosion process producing red droplets resembling blood. When these men tried to share this information with the villagers, the villages stoned them to death in response.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 7/19/2014 11:04:11 AM >

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 1:20:28 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

You call it a waste. One man's waste is another man's treasure trove. Paving paths and blazing trails opens the way for others to follow and to build upon original precepts. Neither are more special than the other. One does not invent new methodologies and consolidate principles out of thin air.

You're welcome to look into it all you want. There is nothing there. Calculus and the laws of motion are real things that are useful. Alchemy and bible prophecy aren't.

Surely even you were aware that alchemy was the foundation stone and predecessor of modern-day chemistry.

Those claims don't really hold water. Alchemy was a mystical pursuit of a way to turn lead into gold. It's practitioners were famous for keeping their journals in code or in obscure  analogy. That does not lend itself to the passing on of knowledge which is fundamental to the building up of a base of knowledge which is necessary to the expansion of science.

quote:

The Holy Bible, if nothing else, is a multi-cultural historical record and has been called the greatest compilation of literature ever written, if this is the only angle of light you can perceive.

The discussion was about supposed hidden codes in the bible not anything else.

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 2:23:17 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
More importantly, how do they cope when the universe starts throwing curves, and crapping on lives they care about? How will they ever appreciate a moment of instant karma that plays out before them?


How do they cope....with far less magical thinking and cognitive dissonance than you do.

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 2:40:54 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Surely even you were aware that alchemy was the foundation stone and predecessor of modern-day chemistry.


Alchemy was also bollocks, FO. It was what people believed in when they were too thick to know any better. Just saying.

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 2:54:29 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

The Holy Bible, if nothing else, is a multi-cultural historical record and has been called the greatest compilation of literature ever written, if this is the only angle of light you can perceive.


Who has considered it the 'greatest compilation of literature ever written', FO, and what were his/her reasons for describing the Bible this way? Could you provide links? Thanks.

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 3:05:13 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

The Holy Bible, if nothing else, is a multi-cultural historical record


Is it really, FO? I do seem to remember reading various things about historians of that period who never even mentioned Jesus of Nazareth - which seems quite a jolt, considering that he was supposed to have been so world-changing. Is the Bible a historical record that's worth much as such? (Obviously, I'm talking of the New Testament, here, rather than the Old Testament, which only loonies regard as a reliable history of our planet and the Universe.)

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 3:06:11 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

[FieryOpal:] The Holy Bible, if nothing else, is a multi-cultural historical record and has been called the greatest compilation of literature ever written, if this is the only angle of light you can perceive.

Who has considered it the 'greatest compilation of literature ever written', FO, and what were his/her reasons for describing the Bible this way? Could you provide links? Thanks.

A number of literary scholars, based on the 7 basic literary plot and style formulas. (Which is an expansion from the 2 basic ancient Greek styles of comedy and tragedy) including my old professor of English, the late renowned historian-scholar and author of I, Claudius, Robert Graves. And before you were born, I want to say I read it in commentaries by Edward Gibbons, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, possibly by the author of the classic Quo Vadis.

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 7/19/2014 3:08:38 PM >

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 3:08:10 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
That's interesting and since you claimed you were raised that way let me ask you a question. Do you feel your inability to determine reality from fantasy is because of this?


Yes I think that's exactly where my proclivity for magical thinking came from, it took better than a decade of reevaluating to overcome. It's a rather unpleasant process that most people never do manage to make it through.

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 3:22:44 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:


A number of literary scholars, based on the 7 basic literary plot and style formulas. (Which is an expansion from the 2 basic ancient Greek styles of comedy and tragedy) including my old professor of English, the late renowned historian-scholar and author of I, Claudius, Robert Graves. And before you were born, I want to say I read it in commentaries by Edward Gibbons, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, possibly by the author of the classic Quo Vadis.


Ah, thanks. Interesting. I shall check out what Graves said, particularly. I did watch the BBC series, as well as read the I Claudius books a few decades ago - when I was in my twenties, as I think you were yourself.

I'd be interested to know if non-Christians were to agree with you. I have this sneaking suspicion that very religious, especially Christian authors, might be biased, you see. I've not heard of Biblical stories as great works of literature outside of religious circles, I have to say.



< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 7/19/2014 3:23:29 PM >

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 3:26:24 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The discussion was about supposed hidden codes in the bible not anything else.


A discussion which you can have by yourself and among your cohorts, since this discussion is about the inculcation of children, and only a rare prodigy would delve into this matter.

ETA: I just saw your post, Peon, and other than the Christian author of Quo Vadis?, who gives a fictionalized narrative of the Roman persecution of early Christians, the others are not known to have been particularly religious.

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 7/19/2014 3:28:50 PM >

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 3:53:45 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The discussion was about supposed hidden codes in the bible not anything else.


A discussion which you can have by yourself and among your cohorts, since this discussion is about the inculcation of children, and only a rare prodigy would delve into this matter.

You're the one who claimed that it was some how relevant. I guess you simply were throwing out red herrings hoping I didn't know anything about the subject.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 3:56:47 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The discussion was about supposed hidden codes in the bible not anything else.


A discussion which you can have by yourself and among your cohorts, since this discussion is about the inculcation of children, and only a rare prodigy would delve into this matter.

You're the one who claimed that it was some how relevant. I guess you simply were throwing out red herrings hoping I didn't know anything about the subject.

And you're the one who wanted to limit the scope of what I posted. Yet you had already made up your mind about this subject, it was not my intention to disabuse your of your ignorance and go down your red herring trail. I don't waste my time with the close-minded.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 4:52:50 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The discussion was about supposed hidden codes in the bible not anything else.


A discussion which you can have by yourself and among your cohorts, since this discussion is about the inculcation of children, and only a rare prodigy would delve into this matter.

You're the one who claimed that it was some how relevant. I guess you simply were throwing out red herrings hoping I didn't know anything about the subject.

And you're the one who wanted to limit the scope of what I posted. Yet you had already made up your mind about this subject, it was not my intention to disabuse your of your ignorance and go down your red herring trail. I don't waste my time with the close-minded.

I'm not trying to limit you but I am trying to keep you on subject. but if you are incapable of actually defending your claims, as I knew you were, then I'll let you run away.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 5:06:28 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

And you're the one who wanted to limit the scope of what I posted. Yet you had already made up your mind about this subject, it was not my intention to disabuse your of your ignorance and go down your red herring trail. I don't waste my time with the close-minded.

I'm not trying to limit you but I am trying to keep you on subject. but if you are incapable of actually defending your claims, as I knew you were, then I'll let you run away.

I don't have to "defend" a damned thing. I don't throw pearls to swine. :p
Who elected you the the topic sheepdog? I gave you a nudge earlier. I don't get my rocks off by engaging others into adversarial relationships.
Yeah, keep on deluding yourself that you are *letting* any of the forum posters do anything.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 5:27:46 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

And you're the one who wanted to limit the scope of what I posted. Yet you had already made up your mind about this subject, it was not my intention to disabuse your of your ignorance and go down your red herring trail. I don't waste my time with the close-minded.

I'm not trying to limit you but I am trying to keep you on subject. but if you are incapable of actually defending your claims, as I knew you were, then I'll let you run away.

I don't have to "defend" a damned thing. I don't throw pearls to swine. :p
Who elected you the the topic sheepdog? I gave you a nudge earlier. I don't get my rocks off by engaging others into adversarial relationships.
Yeah, keep on deluding yourself that you are *letting* any of the forum posters do anything.

You were the one that started making bold claims. I knew you didn't know what you were talking about but it was funny to string you along. There are no codes in the bible, Hebrew or otherwise.

But it does help establish the premise of GotSteel's OP.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 6:00:24 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You were the one that started making bold claims. I knew you didn't know what you were talking about but it was funny to string you along. There are no codes in the bible, Hebrew or otherwise.

But it does help establish the premise of GotSteel's OP.

Says the man who never makes bold, sweeping statements on subjects he later admits to knowing nothing about.

The premise of the OP? I can condense that in a nutshell. Children who are encouraged and stimulated to use their imagination are more open-minded than their imagination-stunted, close-minded counterparts.

I'll make another bold claim: Imaginative lovers are better lovers than non-imaginative ones.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 6:20:46 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You were the one that started making bold claims. I knew you didn't know what you were talking about but it was funny to string you along. There are no codes in the bible, Hebrew or otherwise.

But it does help establish the premise of GotSteel's OP.

Says the man who never makes bold, sweeping statements on subjects he later admits to knowing nothing about.

The premise of the OP? I can condense that in a nutshell. Children who are encouraged and stimulated to use their imagination are more open-minded than their imagination-stunted, close-minded counterparts.

I'll make another bold claim: Imaginative lovers are better lovers than non-imaginative ones.

Actually the study showed that children who are indoctrinated in religion are prone to believing non real things. So no matter your opinion on religion it shows that introducing it to children is bad for them.

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RE: Children exposed to religion have difficulty distin... - 7/19/2014 6:41:13 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: DomKen

Alchemy was a mystical pursuit of a way to turn lead into gold.

I am pretty sure that the alchemist were looking for a lot more than something so trivial.


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