quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work.

1. Whether or not your conclusion ends up happening to be correct in no way effects whether there's an informal fallacy in your argument.
2. Whether or not gun free zones "work" involves more than just armed resistance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

How do you know? That's a bold assertion but you certainly haven't found data to back it up, just this bit of consense. Nothing in the legal definition of gun free zones actually makes them gun free.

An actual study on this matter would have to account for many gun free zones having some form of armed guards. The school my sister teaches in has a number 0f full time police officers even the rural school near me has a cop, colleges often have a whole department, nor are court houses actually gun free, nor are military bases and the list goes on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

That is not a fallacy, it is agreement, legal carriers don't carry in gun free zones. The fallacy is that gun free signs do not always have the weight of law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Where do they not? If a property owner posts a sign saying no guns allowed that has the force of law everywhere in the USA. If you then bring a gun onto that property you are trespassing and are subject to arrest. Feel free to check with any prosecutor you want.

Funny isn't it that all they can do is ask you to leave.
If you persist in going in with a firearm, and they know it they can
go for disturbing the peace, but not the first time. I already checked it out.
Funny how you come up with the most extreme interpretation of any law that hurts gun owners. Like when you tried to tell me that if someone comes on my property causing trouble if I let them know I have a gun I am guilty of assault when the law specifically says the opposite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

really, so you mean any private citizen can just HANG A SIGN and it CHANGES THE LAWS?

so if I put a sign in my back yard declaring pot is legal here that changes the LAW?

what if I put a sign in my place of business that says negro free zone, does that mean if a negro enters my place he is doing so illegally?

OPPSSS talk about a FALLACY

what a surprise Mr I am smarter than you doesn't know the difference between a store POLICY, and an actual LAW.

so what would the police charge a man with who DID enter such a place with his/her gun? bet its not ILLEGAL gun ANYTHING, unless the person was breaking some gun law PRIOR to entering said store, maybe disturbing the peace or trespassing

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Where do they not? If a property owner posts a sign saying no guns allowed that has the force of law everywhere in the USA. If you then bring a gun onto that property you are trespassing and are subject to arrest. Feel free to check with any prosecutor you want.

Funny isn't it that all they can do is ask you to leave.
If you persist in going in with a firearm, and they know it they can
go for disturbing the peace, but not the first time. I already checked it out.
Funny how you come up with the most extreme interpretation of any law that hurts gun owners. Like when you tried to tell me that if someone comes on my property causing trouble if I let them know I have a gun I am guilty of assault when the law specifically says the opposite.

Bullshit.
If you are on property in violation of a posted sign of any kind you are trespassing. Since by law all CCW permit holders are required to obey all such signs if caught you are subject to arrest and loss of permit. You better check again.

And yes, if you threaten someone you committed assault that is the very definition of assault. Look it up. The law does not say the opposite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

really, so you mean any private citizen can just HANG A SIGN and it CHANGES THE LAWS?

so if I put a sign in my back yard declaring pot is legal here that changes the LAW?

what if I put a sign in my place of business that says negro free zone, does that mean if a negro enters my place he is doing so illegally?

OPPSSS talk about a FALLACY

what a surprise Mr I am smarter than you doesn't know the difference between a store POLICY, and an actual LAW.

so what would the police charge a man with who DID enter such a place with his/her gun? bet its not ILLEGAL gun ANYTHING, unless the person was breaking some gun law PRIOR to entering said store, maybe disturbing the peace or trespassing

Mr I Am Smarter Than You doesn't know as much as he thinks he does on any given subject but he made a lucky guess this time. It is my understanding that if a business posts a sign that reads no guns then the law stands with the business and you would be breaking it to come in armed. I'm not sure exactly what they would charge you with assuming you were caught packing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Where do they not? If a property owner posts a sign saying no guns allowed that has the force of law everywhere in the USA. If you then bring a gun onto that property you are trespassing and are subject to arrest. Feel free to check with any prosecutor you want.

Funny isn't it that all they can do is ask you to leave.
If you persist in going in with a firearm, and they know it they can
go for disturbing the peace, but not the first time. I already checked it out.
Funny how you come up with the most extreme interpretation of any law that hurts gun owners. Like when you tried to tell me that if someone comes on my property causing trouble if I let them know I have a gun I am guilty of assault when the law specifically says the opposite.

Bullshit.
If you are on property in violation of a posted sign of any kind you are trespassing. Since by law all CCW permit holders are required to obey all such signs if caught you are subject to arrest and loss of permit. You better check again.

And yes, if you threaten someone you committed assault that is the very definition of assault. Look it up. The law does not say the opposite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you understand that I am not changing the subject.

Sounds like my point went over your head. This hasn't been me taking a stance on gun free zones, it's been me pointing out an informal fallacy in your previous argument.

If you don't understand that I'm willing to walk you through it in greater detail. If you do understand then by all means either attempt to fix your argument or cede the point that it's a failure in which case I'm perfectly happy to continue discussing your next argument.

There is no fallacy in my argument. Gun free zones do not work. Armed resistance will thus happen almost exclusively in non gun free zones as those people who carry legally will, in general, obey the signs. I know that I do.

Another fallacy. By definition anyone who disobeys a sign isn't carrying legally.

really, so you mean any private citizen can just HANG A SIGN and it CHANGES THE LAWS?

so if I put a sign in my back yard declaring pot is legal here that changes the LAW?

what if I put a sign in my place of business that says negro free zone, does that mean if a negro enters my place he is doing so illegally?

OPPSSS talk about a FALLACY

what a surprise Mr I am smarter than you doesn't know the difference between a store POLICY, and an actual LAW.

so what would the police charge a man with who DID enter such a place with his/her gun? bet its not ILLEGAL gun ANYTHING, unless the person was breaking some gun law PRIOR to entering said store, maybe disturbing the peace or trespassing

Mr I Am Smarter Than You doesn't know as much as he thinks he does on any given subject but he made a lucky guess this time. It is my understanding that if a business posts a sign that reads no guns then the law stands with the business and you would be breaking it to come in armed. I'm not sure exactly what they would charge you with assuming you were caught packing.

As I told him the first time you are ordered to leave the second time they can get a restraining order to stay away from the store. If you violate the order you can be charged. That is just in Alabama, I don't claim to know about other places. The no open carry signs (with which I have no problem) have more teeth. If you open carry, it is legal, however if a gunaphobic like Ken freaks out you can be charged with disturbing the peace. However if you carry concealed there is no problem. (except in Kens world). Though law enforcement would likely back the owner and make you leave the sign itself does not make it law.

quote:


§ 13A-11-61.2
Possession of firearms in certain places.
(a) In addition to any other place limited or prohibited by state or federal law, a person, including a person with a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85, may not knowingly possess or carry a firearm in any of the following places without the express permission of a person or entity with authority over the premises:
(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a), a person, including a person with a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85, may not, without the express permission of a person or entity with authority over the premises, knowingly possess or carry a firearm inside any building or facility to which access of unauthorized persons and prohibited articles is limited during normal hours of operation by the continuous posting of guards and the use of other security features, including, but not limited to, magnetometers, key cards, biometric screening devices, or turnstiles or other physical barriers.
(c) The person or entity with authority over the premises set forth in subsections (a)(1)-(6) and subsection (b) shall place a notice at the public entrances of such premises or buildings alerting those entering that firearms are prohibited.
(d) Except as provided in subsections (a)(5) and (a)(6), any firearm on the premises of any facility set forth in subsection (a)(1), or subsections (a)(4)-(6), or subsection (b) must be kept from ordinary observation and locked within a compartment or in the interior of the person's motor vehicle or in a compartment or container securely affixed to the motor vehicle.
(e) A violation of subsections (a) or (d) is a Class C misdemeanor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Nothing about warnings. You stay out or you broke the law.

Do you read every notice on the window of every gas station you go into.
I told you how it actually works.
I also told you that every ccs holder I know just takes their business elsewhere. As I told them when they first put up the sign. Since they didn't want my business they wouldn't get it. I and the other ccw holders decided that if they wanted to guarantee the safety of holdup men we wouldn't try to stop them. They didn't want non criminals coming in with guns and they got exactly what they asked for, the only one to come in with a gun was a criminal.
As usual you choose a minor point to try to make a big deal of. That no firearms sign really provided a lot of protection.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Nothing about warnings. You stay out or you broke the law.

Do you read every notice on the window of every gas station you go into.
I told you how it actually works.
I also told you that every ccs holder I know just takes their business elsewhere. As I told them when they first put up the sign. Since they didn't want my business they wouldn't get it. I and the other ccw holders decided that if they wanted to guarantee the safety of holdup men we wouldn't try to stop them. They didn't want non criminals coming in with guns and they got exactly what they asked for, the only one to come in with a gun was a criminal.
As usual you choose a minor point to try to make a big deal of. That no firearms sign really provided a lot of protection.

You made a claim that was wrong. I proved you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and you couldn't simply own that fact.

Own it dumbass. A property owner does have the right to tell you to keep off his property if you are carrying. And if you don't respect that order you have broken the law.

And since you claim to be a CCW permit holder you should know the law since you are required to be in compliance. In Alabama that means only carrying where allowed. Beyond posted private businesses there are numerous other buildings where you are barred from carrying automatically. Do you know what they are?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Nothing about warnings. You stay out or you broke the law.

Do you read every notice on the window of every gas station you go into.
I told you how it actually works.
I also told you that every ccs holder I know just takes their business elsewhere. As I told them when they first put up the sign. Since they didn't want my business they wouldn't get it. I and the other ccw holders decided that if they wanted to guarantee the safety of holdup men we wouldn't try to stop them. They didn't want non criminals coming in with guns and they got exactly what they asked for, the only one to come in with a gun was a criminal.
As usual you choose a minor point to try to make a big deal of. That no firearms sign really provided a lot of protection.

You made a claim that was wrong. I proved you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and you couldn't simply own that fact.

Own it dumbass. A property owner does have the right to tell you to keep off his property if you are carrying. And if you don't respect that order you have broken the law.

And since you claim to be a CCW permit holder you should know the law since you are required to be in compliance. In Alabama that means only carrying where allowed. Beyond posted private businesses there are numerous other buildings where you are barred from carrying automatically. Do you know what they are?

I have only said about a dozen times that as soon as they posted this I took my business elsewhere, since you can't seem to understand this means that I (and every ccw holder I know) didn't care whether it was backed by law we quit going in there. This means THAT I DIDN'T VIOLATE THE LAW AND DIDN'T IGNORE THE POLICY. That of course doesn't matter to you because you think you can win one. I will quote the cop who told me about the hold up when I mentioned that their no gun policy didn't help them "this time it hurt them" . I don't know the details but I will take his word for it. (the cop was black so he can be trusted).

quote:

Funny isn't it that all they can do is ask you to leave.
If you persist in going in with a firearm, and they know it they can
go for disturbing the peace, but not the first time. I already checked it out.
Funny how you come up with the most extreme interpretation of any law that hurts gun owners. Like when you tried to tell me that if someone comes on my property causing trouble if I let them know I have a gun I am guilty of assault when the law specifically says the opposite.